Anyone passed a UK Flight Assessment with Typhoon H?

[samsflite]

Just curious what happened with this section:

It is a CAA requirement that you can successfully demonstrate the recovery of the aircraft from a ‘loss of control link’, return the aircraft home and land. This will be done by breaking the link by switching off the transmitter - not using a return to home function (if fitted). The aircraft should be set up so that this exercise can be successfully accomplished.

 

[anthony h-ellary]

yes I did

 

[samsflite]

What happened with the transmitter switch off part? Did they let you complete it with GPS switched on as the Typhoon H won't fly home in manual mode?

 

[FlushVision]

I was concerned about this when I did my Ops test. Although I have a YTH, one of the first made available to buy in the U.K. I opted to use an aging Phantom 2 Vision Plus for the test since I'd had it a long while so it was well tried and tested. I chose to use the Phantom instead of the H mainly for two reasons:
1
Part of the assessment requires you to fly for a portion of the flight without GPS assistance (this is the ATTI mode on the Phantom). At the time of my test, the version of firmware that the H had didn't allow for GPS switching during the flight and would have meant me having to land the aircraft to switch out the GPS and take off again. I gather the examiner was prepared to allow this, but it is far from an ideal situation.
2
Part of the test requires you to demonstrate 'loss of control signal'. Now, at the time of my test it was my understanding that one could simply initiate a RTH by switching off the Phantom's controller and let it go through the whole RTH procedure until it landed. But switching off the ST16 for the H would have posed some issues: Yes, it would have returned to the position of the ST16, but just hovered there in the air and not landed, and would have simply hung there until control was re-established or landed when the battery got low. I wasn't prepared to do that so my aging P2V+ graced the sky for the test.

I do know of at least one other person from my class cohort that did the test using his H and passed the test. I believe that the examiner had an understanding of the H and it's limitation regarding landing when control is lost and cut him some slack allowing him to just flick the RTH switch. I can't say for certain, though. I wasn't there.

Since I did my test, the rules regarding the flight test may have changed. I'll look them up tomorrow.

 

[FlushVision]

What happened with the transmitter switch off part? Did they let you complete it with GPS switched on as the Typhoon H won't fly home in manual mode?

By the time you 'lose control signal' you will have completed the section for loss of GPS and so should have it activated again. The examiner will not ask you to demonstrate loss of control while the GPS is off. If he did, then that would be the start of some interesting events.

 

[samsflite]

By the time you 'lose control signal' you will have completed the section for loss of GPS and so should have it activated again. The examiner will not ask you to demonstrate loss of control while the GPS is off. If he did, then that would be the start of some interesting events.

Ok great, thanks for your reply. The way my flight assessment is worded (I have it in the near future) is that the examiner may ask you to switch off the transmitter 'at any time' during the course of the assessment.
As my assessment has 1 GPS hover at head height 5m away and the 5 'manual' manoeuvres at 50m away I assumed this would be requested during one of my manual manoeuvres. Hence the worry (I know DJI's go into a specific 'failsafe' mode which will switch the GPS back on and RTH even if in 'atti' mode.
I will have to be upfront with the examiner and explain the H's limitations, can only give me bonus points for knowledge of aircraft right?

 

[samsflite]

Currently sitting at my flight assessment and can't be given a pass due to the typhoon not returning to home. Fortunately not a windy day and it drifted not too far before the transmitter rebooted so still in one piece but my examiner says the typhoon h can not be used commercially legally because it doesn't have this feature. I don't know what to do next....

 

[FlushVision]

Currently sitting at my flight assessment and can't be given a pass due to the typhoon not returning to home. Fortunately not a windy day and it drifted not too far before the transmitter rebooted so still in one piece but my examiner says the typhoon h can not be used commercially legally because it doesn't have this feature. I don't know what to do next....

Hmmm. If the examiner was familiar with the H and knew what the H could and could not do, and knowing that at some point he would ask to see it demonstrate an autonomous RTH including landing given a loss of control signal, then it begs the question why he allowed the flight test to start knowing full well you could never complete it if staying to the letter of the test guidelines. Like I've already said earlier, although I opted to use a Phantom for my test, I know that my examiner cut some slack to another in my cohort. Interestingly, the same examiner also owned a H of his own so he knew all about what they could and couldn't do.

Maybe grounds for an appeal?

edit to say I've just noticed that the examiner has said that the H can't be used commercially. What rubbish! He doesn't know what he's talking about. There are a lot of commercial operators using Typhoon Hs in the U.K. me included. Further, my Ops manual details my H as one of the units (as well as a Phantom) and the CAA approved it with no problem. Further, the guy that examined my flight test also uses a the H he ownes for his own commercial work!!!

Who are you doing your course with?

 

[anthony h-ellary]

does sound stupid as I passed mine with the h and have both the 480 and the 920 in my manual and it was approved

 

[samsflite]

UAVAir, he did say before it started that it puts him in a difficult position as he shouldn't allow the flight to commence.
He messaged a friend of his who flies Yuneec craft, and he said to him it should do it apparently. I told him it wouldn't and I was sure of that (having rung Yuneec uk), but said I was happy to try it if his friend was sure it worked, it didn't work and drifted towards trees, at which point I switched back on the transmitter and regained control in time!
His friend is ringing Yuneec on my behalf so I'm waiting for a reply back...

 

[FlushVision]

UAVAir, he did say before it started that it puts him in a difficult position as he shouldn't allow the flight to commence.
He messaged a friend of his who flies Yuneec craft, and he said to him it should do it apparently. I told him it wouldn't and I was sure of that (having rung Yuneec uk), but said I was happy to try it if his friend was sure it worked, it didn't work and drifted towards trees, at which point I switched back on the transmitter and regained control in time!
His friend is ringing Yuneec on my behalf so I'm waiting for a reply back...

If it drifted towards trees then that indicates GPS turned off at the same time you turned your controller off. If the examiner asked for a RTH (loss of control signal) demonstration at the same time as an inactive GPS then he needs to be hung from the very same trees that your H was heading towards.

You need to appeal.

 

[samsflite]

If it drifted towards trees then that indicates GPS turned off at the same time you turned your controller off. If the examiner asked for a RTH (loss of control signal) demonstration at the same time as an inactive GPS then he needs to be hung from the very same trees that your H was heading towards.

You need to appeal.

UAVAir's flight assessment requires that GPS must be off when the controller is switched off and the craft should RTH. It wasn't in GPS mode at the time and I warned him it would behave like that.

I now need to phone Yuneec UK, make sure that is the expected behaviour and appeal the decision. Might even phone the CAA if I can get through to someone specialising in UAV's and get written confirmation from them that this doesn't have to be part of the flight test. Interesting afternoon ahead...

 

[FlushVision]

UAVAir's flight assessment requires that GPS must be off when the controller is switched off and the craft should RTH. It wasn't in GPS mode at the time and I warned him it would behave like that.

I now need to phone Yuneec UK, make sure that is the expected behaviour and appeal the decision. Might even phone the CAA if I can get through to someone specialising in UAV's and get written confirmation from them that this doesn't have to be part of the flight test. Interesting afternoon ahead...

GPS off when the transmitter is off flies in the face of common sense. If GPS is off then how on earth is the unit supposed to know where it is, let alone know where to go in RTH? (and I'm not just talking Typhoon's here). What your H did is exactly what I would have expected given a similar situation.

When I did the test the two demonstrations were discreet: Demonstrate loss of GPS (Atti in Phantoms), then once put back into normal mode then, and only then, demonstrate loss of control signal. Definitely not at the same time. Could it be that your examiner has miss interpreted his own company guidelines?

I did my test with RUSTA and the examiner was ex RAF.

Am I missing something here?

 

[samsflite]

GPS off when the transmitter is off flies in the face of common sense. If GPS is off then how on earth is the unit supposed to know where it is, let alone know where to go in RTH? (and I'm not just talking Typhoon's here). What your H did is exactly what I would have expected given a similar situation.

When I did the test the two demonstrations were discreet: Demonstrate loss of GPS (Atti in Phantoms), then once put back into normal mode then, and only then, demonstrate loss of control signal. Definitely not at the same time. Could it be that your examiner has miss interpreted his own company guidelines?

I did my test with RUSTA and the examiner was ex RAF.

Am I missing something here?

I feel like I'm missing something too! I wasn't going to stand there and have an argument with my examiner, but if you have disabled GPS, there is a reason for it (either flying indoors, KP index incredibly high, or whatever). When flying indoors for example the last thing you want is it trying to raise up to 20m and fly back home when the remote connection drops out. I will get some stuff in writing from Yuneec and CAA and appeal my result. He said he will try to get me a 'free' retest, and I should just have to go back and demonstrate that when I've got it working (he's convinced it should work).

 

[Snagglesworth]

I didn't have to demonstrate it's use. I was asked what would happen and how I would regain control but not asked to do it.

 

[FlushVision]

I didn't have to demonstrate it's use. I was asked what would happen and how I would regain control but not asked to do it.

That's far more sensible if using a H on the test.

I've never heard of anyone else having to demonstrate a 'loss of control signal' at the same time as having the GPS switched off. That's just asking for trouble IMHO.

 

[samsflite]

Right, here we go. One for the knowledge bank....called up Yuneec who said it should function and RTH on loss of signal (even with GPS disabled), so went off to a field to try again, and took the leap and switched off. As I did it, the wind picked up and the H started drifting across the field. I did the test at head height and chased it across the field for a bit when all of a sudden, GPS kicked in, it rushed up to 20m and returned back to where I started!
Went back to the scene of flight test, did the same and it didn't work again and almost into trees. Here's the thing: you have to start the flight in GPS mode (I guess so it records a home point), otherwise it wouldn't do it. Had a kinder instructor who let me take off in GPS, disable and fly up and switch off transmitter. Then it drifted for around 10 seconds, and returned home, test passed!

So a handy tip, if you want a GPS rth as failsafe on the H even with GPS disabled, take off first in GPS mode then switch off. If you don't want it to try and take off to 20m and come back, take off with GPS already disabled.

A very stressful day, especially when it seems like a stupid test on UAVAir's part.

Thanks for all the comments, now it's passed I hope to never have to worry about failsafe RTH again!

 

[FlushVision]

Right, here we go. One for the knowledge bank....called up Yuneec who said it should function and RTH on loss of signal (even with GPS disabled), so went off to a field to try again, and took the leap and switched off. As I did it, the wind picked up and the H started drifting across the field. I did the test at head height and chased it across the field for a bit when all of a sudden, GPS kicked in, it rushed up to 20m and returned back to where I started!
Went back to the scene of flight test, did the same and it didn't work again and almost into trees. Here's the thing: you have to start the flight in GPS mode (I guess so it records a home point), otherwise it wouldn't do it. Had a kinder instructor who let me take off in GPS, disable and fly up and switch off transmitter. Then it drifted for around 10 seconds, and returned home, test passed!

So a handy tip, if you want a GPS rth as failsafe on the H even with GPS disabled, take off first in GPS mode then switch off. If you don't want it to try and take off to 20m and come back, take off with GPS already disabled.

A very stressful day, especially when it seems like a stupid test on UAVAir's part.

Thanks for all the comments, now it's passed I hope to never have to worry about failsafe RTH again!

So the H automatically switches on the GPS when it detects that control has been lost (I have to admit that I recall having read something about that elsewhere in this forum, but memory is vague). Fair enough. I've learned something today. However, I still think it's unwise to voluntary instigate a 'loss of control signal' while GPS is off. Too much can go wrong. All I know is that in my test I had GPS on when I switched off the controller. The rules must've changed.

 

[keiths]

Excuse my ignorance on this as I have always been a bit confused regarding the CAA test,
1) From reading I assume that you can take your test on any UAV and this then covers you for any UAV?
2) Each separate UAV has to be registered if used for commercial purposes ?

 

[FlushVision]

Excuse my ignorance on this as I have always been a bit confused regarding the CAA test,
1) From reading I assume that you can take your test on any UAV and this then covers you for any UAV?
2) Each separate UAV has to be registered if used for commercial purposes ?

1. You can use any UAV for the test but it has got to be one that is detailed in your Ops Manual. If under 7 Kg then it will cover any UAV under 7 Kg that is detailed in your manual. Likewise for other weight categories.

2. Yes, any UAV that you intend to use for commercial work must be detailed in your Ops manual. However, if you add an aircraft to your fleet during the course of the year, then you need to add it to your manual but need not have the manual reviewed for approval until your next renewal date for the PfCO. You can have as many UAVs detailed in your manual as you wish.