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  1. EdFly

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    Part 107 SUAS Pilot here... I have a question concerning updating firmware. It was my understanding during my course of study for Part 107 that in order to comply with FAA Regulations our SUAS must maintain a log book noting any maintenance performed (ie Firmware Updates, date complete etc...) Hypothetical question... We have an incident during a commercial application that requires FAA notification. It is determined that at the time of the incident that updated firmware was not installed (for whatever reason, maybe you are concerned about it's performance).
     
  2. OnTheRopes

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    I was wondering this same question myself. I do not have a definitive answer, but all things considered, if you have doubts about the firmware based on others recorded experience (forums) then I would consider it prudent that you would risk assess not to update. I would have thought that the FAA would not consider it prudent to install a firmware update that has safety concerns? Perhaps this reason should be logged?
    These are just my thoughts and not fact in any way
     
  3. BobW55

    BobW55 Moderator
    Staff Member

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    Interesting question.
    I think ONLY the FAA could answer that.
    The lawyers would have a field day with it.
    Was the firmware to correct a safety issue?
    Was the firmware to correct flight issues?
    Was the firmware for added functionality?
     
  4. WilsonFlyer

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    Are you libel in the US if your brakes fail after a factory recall when you haven't had time to get it done yet? No. Ford is (or whoever). Case closed.

    You can turn right around and make the counter argument that you did it, logged it, and it CAUSED the problem, as has been documented with a recent FW release from Yuneec.

    Your craft should be safe with ANY factory authorized firmware. so long as your book is up to date and accurate, I can't imagine you wouldn't be OK.
     
  5. WilsonFlyer

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    This is probably going down a road nobody ever imagined. I foresee drones labeled "not for commercial use" in the VERY near future. I also full expect manufacturers to try to retro that to existing consumer stock.

    Mark my words. You saw it first HERE on this day.
     
    Merlin likes this.
  6. PPS

    PPS

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    Firmware record. I keep a logbook for my H and to meet 107 requirements. I really like these logbooks and they are really inexpensive and portable. Covers all the requirements. They come in packs of 3 for $10.95. You can record a days worth of flights per log entry vs a per flight entry. I found it met my needs exactly without a lot of work. The link below describes it along with a video demo. It includes a pre and post inspect. Good log book!

    Flight Log | Field Notes
     
    Hychewright likes this.
  7. Hychewright

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    Thanks for the flight log info, best I've seen.
     
  8. PPS

    PPS

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    Glad to help out. I researched a lot of log books before settling on these. Myth Busters Adam Savage designed this logbook for himself and Field Notes decided to produce it. Good Luck and clear sky's!
     
    Danny Sloop likes this.
  9. Tuna

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    Surely the point of any FAA (or CAA) logbooks is to have a paper trail so that should something go wrong, they can work out possible causes?

    If there is an accident, and it turns out an aircraft just had a new part fitted, or a particular service, or a specific version of firmware, then the FAA want to check that the particular part doesn't have a problem that might affect other aircraft. In an aircraft, you are not responsible for the quality of every bolt and nut, but the suppliers you use are, and accident investigations need to be able to trust that they have a correct audit trail for the craft they're checking on.

    At least that's my understanding of the spirit of the law?
     
  10. glider

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    What's going to happen is the average person will not be able to afford to fly if the FAA applies the same standards now that they've designated all model aircraft as "aircraft". MTBF, FMEA, component certification etc. etc. can do just that. Instead of $1500, it will be $15,000.

    I worked in the aerospace industry for years and found out why hammers cost $500.
     
    WilsonFlyer likes this.
  11. WilsonFlyer

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    Exactly. I pay for an annual every year on an airplane and a hot air balloon. Believe me, you don't want this to go there.
     
  12. glider

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    There are evil doers in the corporate world (e.g. Amazon, Google etc.) that are lobbying Congress to make it near impossible to fly anything for hobby use, but also to make it very expensive for the average 107 guys (H owners et al) and force them out of business. It really is sinister.
     
    WilsonFlyer likes this.
  13. WilsonFlyer

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  14. Dwight

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    But now with a part 107 certificate you can make all the money you want. Remember what caused all this is people flying FPV IFR in a place where a aircraft can be. You cannot fly in the clouds and in a position that can harm others.
     
  15. Dwight

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    Maintenance is important because it shows you are trying to keep your aircraft airworthy and when you keep your maintenance on a register you are complying with the intent of the regulation.
     
  16. EdFly

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    At this point as a PIC of my Typhoon H I simply don't trust it to perform in a safe manner and will refuse to use it in any commercial application until I can be shown otherwise. Doing my due diligence as a PIC I now run telemetry after every flight and I am seeing errors. Are these code 32 errors enough to drop this thing in somebody's lap? I don't know. I am going to try the Sept. 13 firmware and see what happens. I honestly believe that Yuneec could not provide Airworthy Certificates to the FAA if prompted.
     
  17. EdFly

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    I have flown RC for more than 15 years including everything from 35% Gas planes to helicopters to scale warbirds, and never have I been more nervous flying than the last few weeks. To think that something is totally out of your hands is a frightening thought to me. I have re-kitted my share of planes and every time it was my fault, either with a dumb thumb or set up problem. On a plane when the fan stops turning I still have the wing, but these things are another matter. I am sorry but I am having a hard time trusting technology.
     
    WilsonFlyer likes this.
  18. Dwight

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    I agree to being responsible to the operation of the aircraft, but this craft has been out only about 5 months got mine in may and they have already have firmware updates out. i really feel the typhoon H is going to be the standard that new craft will have to follow to be successful. (it can fly one engine inoperative) great safety feature. But i still would not fly it over people. Sure there are bugs to be worked out, this is a very new craft, its up to us to work them out and let yuneec know. i've had some of the problems people on this board have had, i just always fly in angle mode check every switch position every flight. and yes the FAA would certainly issue a airworthiness certificate its called a experimental certificate its done every day this is how we learn. i am just learning about telemetry files and how to view them so i have no experience with this. The only down side is ability to maintain the drone with software to verify function of systems (accelerometer and compass to start with) but all in all i really like the H and will stick with yuneec.
     
  19. Royce Sims

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    A reason the FAA could be concerned about doing firmware updates is the no fly zones databases being updated in the firmware updates .
     
  20. JCFlippen

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    Interesting point that if using an H for commercial work you will be keeping a history of all activities. If your H has to go back to Yuneec for some reason and they just replace with another one from the service centre pile - where is the history for that machine?
     
    Brian Mackey likes this.