Flying, filming, and privacy.

[CraigCam]

Greetings all. One of the reasons this forum excels is the quality of feedback and help we all strive to participate in. This is a very fledgling field and it's been a bumpy ride for many along the way. I've gotten to a place where I really want to be the most responsible pilot but unfortunately it seems the actions of others keeps hindering all of us. What I mean by that is the public perception of this field is that anytime they see a UAS they go right towards the negative. We see that in many posts here.

I'm currently in a very secluded area along the Pacific coast that is stunningly gorgeous. I brought all my camera drones because I knew this was a rare opportunity to get some different footage then my normal southwest cactus looks. Last night, a great sunset was taking shape and I was double capturing it. I set my CGO3 from the Q500
on the steadicam and ran that with a ground view for over half an hour during the golden hour then got airborne for final sunset from the orange to pink period. I was in a steady hover over my host property the entire time as I wanted to keep the perspective held for potential speed up for a quasi time lapse. I maintained VLOS, stayed below 400' and did nothing that was cavalier. Straight up and straight down was all I did.

This morning, my host said his neighbor complained and he asked me to chill. Of course I am as I consider it a privilege to have even gotten the shots I have these past few days. I will not launch from here the rest of my trip and assured my host of that and told him the circumstances of the flight and what I was doing. I'm not complaining about my situation but it makes me wonder what we can do to alleviate these kind of problems. It seems the self importance these days of folks makes it where they assume the UAS is spying on them when in fact the last thing I want is human activity in my nature shots.

I wish I could have that neighbor next to me so they could see how beautiful an area they live in and what they take for granted everyday living here. I'm adding a screen shot of what I was filming and you can see no detail on the ground due to the exposure of the sunset. Obviously, communication and transparency are key but when you get questions after the flight it become a bit of damage control and I'm apologizing for doing nothing wrong other than assuming I could fly over the private land I'm renting and the owner was fine with it until his neighbor complained. Again, I'm not mad nor should this thread become a bull session about confrontations with people when piloting. I'm asking for a constructive approach we can all peruse if possible to help remove this automatic black eye about UAS photography and the spying perception vs the right to fly responsibly

Thanks in advance.

 

[Shadowolf]

One thing I would suggest is Goto adjacent property and talk to them as well as the property you are flying from. Just explain who you are what your doing and why.
Another thing is I would not apologize for doing it. That just admits wrong doing. But instead do as you did and say that you will gladly not fly any more if it makes them uncomfortable and invite them to view your footage.
But in your case you weren't confronted by the neighbor so you did the right thing.

 

[Ty Pilot]

While I don't think the average person will ever educate themselves on the subject, I also don't think there is anything we can do except be as professional and upfront about our intentions and reasoning for what we do. People are okay taking a selfie or having their friends take a picture but when a stranger has a camera they react as if it is a gun.

When I do a shoot on real estate I make sure to ask that the realtor notify neighbors either directly or thru the current owners that there will be photographers in, around and above the property. I find about half the time most have no problem and are a little curious. I always take a moment to greet any onlookers and do a little explanation and then go on about the shoot. It also helps that I typically show up with my wife, who has her camera gear and onlookers can see the realtor with us and it makes what we are doing look legitimate.

Out in the general public is a different thing though for sure. When I was doing some shots for the rate curve video, I was on an approximately 150 acre development with no one in sight and I was well back from the road, A car pulled up and a man and a woman got out, as they walked towards the lake we had greetings and the woman stopped like she had seen a bear. Yep the deadly H. It wasn't even on; but she really took a pause until the husband said "nice drone". She then rolled hers eyes in disgust and continued on. If they had chosen to ask questions I would have answered each in turn but since they chose to move along I didn't press the matter.

I also ride motorcycles and have found similarity's with peoples opinions of those as well. Basically every time I ride or fly I try to remember to be sort of an ambassador of the sport/profession to counterbalance all those who cast a bad light on us.

Pat

 

[Windluv]

2 years ago, Monterey Bay in California.

I was shooting with my Steadidrone Dash (about a 650mm sized craft) very low over the bay looking for whales and was a little less then 1/2 mile out. This was flying off a rocky beach five yards away from the waves at low tide, with all the homes on the other side of the hi-way and cars parked in pull outs along road. After about 20 minutes of flying a man came over at a very quick pace and literally physically accosted me while accusing me of spying on his home that was 1/2 mile in the other direction. Lost the Dash and GoPro that morning during this. Police were called by the man, but after questions and looking at logs asked if I wanted to press any charges. I did not.

I realized this was my fault though. Essentially every incident that ends in a crash or a bad situation is the pilot fault : lack of skill for level and flying conditions; lack of preparation and pre-test for mechanical issues; lack of judgement regarding many issues including location and perception.

It was about six months after that before I started flying again. Before I realized I really like this. Before I was ready to account and plan for these situations.

I have adjusted my flying to specific locations and times. I will walk away from beautiful sunsets if the flying will intersect across others. Early morning at dawn is terrific as you generally will see no-one around. But I think we all live to shoot the sunsets with these marvelous cameras.

My beaches are essentially isolated that require hiking into, and along the SF Bay I launch at public access points at the waters edge and immediately fly out over the bay and the small delta inlets that are not populated. Hopefully moving into launching from kayaks in the SF Bay and coastal areas latter this summer to even further remove me from these issues.

Image is a hike-in beach above Santa Cruz, Ca, little after 6am two weeks ago I was flying at.

 

[Shadowolf]

Lol. Sunsets. I go for sunrise. But I'm on the east coast and sunsets are as nice as the rises. However my wife's parents live on a lake and get great sunsets.

 

[CraigCam]

Wow..both of these shots are amazing. Water and sky!,,,

 

[Murray Martz]

Greetings all. One of the reasons this forum excels is the quality of feedback and help we all strive to participate in. This is a very fledgling field and it's been a bumpy ride for many along the way. I've gotten to a place where I really want to be the most responsible pilot but unfortunately it seems the actions of others keeps hindering all of us. What I mean by that is the public perception of this field is that anytime they see a UAS they go right towards the negative. We see that in many posts here.

I'm currently in a very secluded area along the Pacific coast that is stunningly gorgeous. I brought all my camera drones because I knew this was a rare opportunity to get some different footage then my normal southwest cactus looks. Last night, a great sunset was taking shape and I was double capturing it. I set my CGO3 from the Q500
on the steadicam and ran that with a ground view for over half an hour during the golden hour then got airborne for final sunset from the orange to pink period. I was in a steady hover over my host property the entire time as I wanted to keep the perspective held for potential speed up for a quasi time lapse. I maintained VLOS, stayed below 400' and did nothing that was cavalier. Straight up and straight down was all I did.

This morning, my host said his neighbor complained and he asked me to chill. Of course I am as I consider it a privilege to have even gotten the shots I have these past few days. I will not launch from here the rest of my trip and assured my host of that and told him the circumstances of the flight and what I was doing. I'm not complaining about my situation but it makes me wonder what we can do to alleviate these kind of problems. It seems the self importance these days of folks makes it where they assume the UAS is spying on them when in fact the last thing I want is human activity in my nature shots.

I wish I could have that neighbor next to me so they could see how beautiful an area they live in and what they take for granted everyday living here. I'm adding a screen shot of what I was filming and you can see no detail on the ground due to the exposure of the sunset. Obviously, communication and transparency are key but when you get questions after the flight it become a bit of damage control and I'm apologizing for doing nothing wrong other than assuming I could fly over the private land I'm renting and the owner was fine with it until his neighbor complained. Again, I'm not mad nor should this thread become a bull session about confrontations with people when piloting. I'm asking for a constructive approach we can all peruse if possible to help remove this automatic black eye about UAS photography and the spying perception vs the right to fly responsibly

Thanks in advance. View attachment 6006

One more thing you can do is give the person that had an issue a copy of the finished product. Shows no hard feelings, and they have something to show their friends about where they live. Let the person also know if there is anything they would like some video of, you'd be more than happy to do it for them at no charge. Could go a long way for you to help him understand.

 

[CraigCam]

One more thing you can do is give the person that had an issue a copy of the finished product. Shows no hard feelings, and they have something to show their friends about where they live. Let the person also know if there is anything they would like some video of, you'd be more than happy to do it for them at no charge. Could go a long way for you to help him understand.

My host is very private so I'm not even going to post any of the shots of his place. My intentions were to have a montage of the same basic view to show all the different times of day. I did get many great moments and have enough for a nice edit. Maybe I will send that back to my host with a bottle of wine as a peace offering to the neighbor.

 

[Typhoon Charlie]

My feelings are a bit different. If I am doing something legal with the proper license and some one has a problem with it. They can just kiss my tail rotor. And you bet if some one approaches me and gets physical or damages or causes me to damage my equipment, we are both going to make a trip to court. I am not going to coward to anyone if I know I am in the right. They have no right to push anyone around even if they feel they have a reason. Accusing some one of spying or being a peeping tom is a serious charge and they better have concrete proof before they accuse me of it. I can say where I live and do business, people are not as paranoid as some other places. If anyone thinks I am doing something wrong and accuses me with no evidence I will be the first one to call law enforcement right then and there. I'll bet you they will back off right away. I know I will get flame for this post but this is the way I feel and the way I have handled it in the past and has worked very well.

 

[gwhuntoon]

My feelings are a bit different. If I am doing something legal with the proper license and some one has a problem with it. They can just kiss my tail rotor. And you bet if some one approaches me and gets physical or damages or causes me to damage my equipment, we are both going to make a trip to court. I am not going to coward to anyone if I know I am in the right. They have no right to push anyone around even if they feel they have a reason. Accusing some one of spying or being a peeping tom is a serious charge and they better have concrete proof before they accuse me of it. I can say where I live and do business, people are not as paranoid as some other places. If anyone thinks I am doing something wrong and accuses me with no evidence I will be the first one to call law enforcement right then and there. I'll bet you they will back off right away. I know I will get flame for this post but this is the way I feel and the way I have handled it in the past and has worked very well.

You won't get flamed by me. I appreciate your position. I hate to say it but as I became older I found my patience wearing thin. I have no patience for A holes. I think my first response would be "Do I know you?" The truth is, most people aren't that **** interesting, especially to spy on. It takes a special kind of self importance to think they are.

 

[CraigCam]

You won't get flamed by me. I appreciate your position. I hate to say it but as I became older I found my patience wearing thin. I have no patience for A holes. I think my first response would be "Do I know you?" The truth is, most people aren't that **** interesting, especially to spy on. It takes a special kind of self importance to think they are.

That's for sure the issue I think. I've had people scream at my while doing a compass calibration in a local park with no props or camera attached. It did not matter. The person believed my intent was to fly into them. I've also had local police come by as I often shoot sunsets above my studio parking lot. I land immediately and always give my FAA number and then give them a tutorial on the benefits to law enforcement camera drones present. I now have some new friends on the downtown bike patrol. The police were called because the building across from me security guards believe their building is not allowed to be photographed by anyone ever. Needless to say, the Sargent who showed up was not happy that his rookie was wasting time taking a report from me.

 

[Typhoon Charlie]

You won't get flamed by me. I appreciate your position. I hate to say it but as I became older I found my patience wearing thin. I have no patience for A holes. I think my first response would be "Do I know you?" The truth is, most people aren't that **** interesting, especially to spy on. It takes a special kind of self importance to think they are.

Yes I feel the same. At 68 I have seen and heard most everything. I just don't understand where people get off accusing someone of committing a crime without proof. I have very little patience with people anymore. Specially uneducated, misinformed, ignorant A holes.

 

[Typhoon Charlie]

That's for sure the issue I think. I've had people scream at my while doing a compass calibration in a local park with no props or camera attached. It did not matter. The person believed my intent was to fly into them. I've also had local police come by as I often shoot sunsets above my studio parking lot. I land immediately and always give my FAA number and then give them a tutorial on the benefits to law enforcement camera drones present. I now have some new friends on the downtown bike patrol. The police were called because the building across from me security guards believe their building is not allowed to be photographed by anyone ever. Needless to say, the Sargent who showed up was not happy that his rookie was wasting time taking a report from me.

Gotta love it. Assuming intent. What a piece of work.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Craig, I assume you weren't wearing the shirt you got... LOL

The truth is, most people aren't that **** interesting, especially to spy on. It takes a special kind of self importance to think they are.

Anyone using a drone to spy on Kim Kardashian, would have the perfectly valid excuse that a wide angle camera
was required to get all of her in the frame.

 

[PatR]

Here's the problem in California; Law section

The way the law is written if you fly pretty much anywhere that has private property within sight of your aircraft some neighboring yo-yo has the potential to generate a lot of grief for pretty much any reason if they saw your aircraft while in flight. The way the law is written there's probable cause for further action if the aircraft has any type of recording device on it. In fact, the law has a clause that pretty much states you could be found in violation of you recorded nothing at all. Law enforcement and government is of course exempt from this law. As things now stand, if you point a camera at pretty much anything that's not owned by your there could be a violation of California's paparazzi law or CA Civil Code 1708.8. Should someone be violated under this law it's highly probable it would be found in conflict with federal airspace regulations and controls but who needs to be paying attorney fees to establish precedent? Brendan Schulman doesn't do pro bono work for drone operators any more...

Best advice I have would be to notify the neighbors, especially those in the higher end side of the tracks, and obtain permission. A forward thinking individual would obtain a photographers release for property and persons in the process to back stop people that change their mind after you take off. If nothing else, and although it may not be legal, put your phone on voice memos and forget to turn it off during conversations. If you're shooting real estate stuff releases and notifications are virtually mandatory prior to every shoot. The people that own the property being shot own the rights to the display of their property so you want things very clear with them, along with approval of the neighbors. If some real estate agent does something wrong in the promotion and sale of the property and a real estate attorney gets dragged in for something you had nothing to do with later you'll have a written record of what you did and an owner's release to protect you from any bad sale after effects. You also want to retain copyrights for your work in order to use it for business advertising later. This stuff is plainly stated in photographers release forms, which you can obtain for free as Word templates via your favorite search engine.

Yea, it's all a pain in the a$$, but that's California in general over the past 15 years or so.

 

[CraigCam]

I'm realizing that on my visit here. We've been hit with many "you cant do that here"

 

[Typhoon Charlie]

Reason why I left that forsaken state 25 years ago.

 

[CraigCam]

So regulated!!!! I realize I'm an Arizonan fully now. Pat R eloquent response made me think I'm done trying to ever fly here as I'm breaking the law so how can places sell them here if it's so draconian? I'm not being a wise guy here because I'm assuming Best Buy in CA has sold a ton of drones? So how does that work here legally? Is it the classic better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission or am I grounded in this state. How can you on one hand sell a recreational lifestyle with a camera obsessed GoPro action extreme culture and on the other say you can be sued for flying your camera?

 

[Mindbank]

Here's the problem in California; Law section

The way the law is written if you fly pretty much anywhere that has private property within sight of your aircraft some neighboring yo-yo has the potential to generate a lot of grief for pretty much any reason if they saw your aircraft while in flight. The way the law is written there's probable cause for further action if the aircraft has any type of recording device on it. In fact, the law has a clause that pretty much states you could be found in violation of you recorded nothing at all. Law enforcement and government is of course exempt from this law. As things now stand, if you point a camera at pretty much anything that's not owned by your there could be a violation of California's paparazzi law or CA Civil Code 1708.8. Should someone be violated under this law it's highly probable it would be found in conflict with federal airspace regulations and controls but who needs to be paying attorney fees to establish precedent? Brendan Schulman doesn't do pro bono work for drone operators any more...

Best advice I have would be to notify the neighbors, especially those in the higher end side of the tracks, and obtain permission. A forward thinking individual would obtain a photographers release for property and persons in the process to back stop people that change their mind after you take off. If nothing else, and although it may not be legal, put your phone on voice memos and forget to turn it off during conversations. If you're shooting real estate stuff releases and notifications are virtually mandatory prior to every shoot. The people that own the property being shot own the rights to the display of their property so you want things very clear with them, along with approval of the neighbors. If some real estate agent does something wrong in the promotion and sale of the property and a real estate attorney gets dragged in for something you had nothing to do with later you'll have a written record of what you did and an owner's release to protect you from any bad sale after effects. You also want to retain copyrights for your work in order to use it for business advertising later. This stuff is plainly stated in photographers release forms, which you can obtain for free as Word templates via your favorite search engine.

Yea, it's all a pain in the a$$, but that's California in general over the past 15 years or so.

"in order to capture any type of visual image, sound recording, or other physical impression of the plaintiff engaging in a private, personal, or familial activity and the invasion occurs in a manner that is offensive to a reasonable person"

This law seems to imply that you have to have intent to breach someone's privacy.....

 

[PatR]

Doesn't matter. Once a lawyer and court room are involved, even a win is a loss. How many hours of defense can you afford at $300.00-$500.00/hour? You won't get any of it back if the case is dismissed.

I have personally been in two legal situation where winning one meant I broke even and winning the second was lost profits. Too many don't understand how the system really works.