Transition From Hover to Flight "Jerky"

[Dominator]

Hi All,

Firstly hello everyone, newbie to the forum and from what I've seen there are some good help topics and discussion.

I've been flying r/c models for many years, multicopters for three or four years and recently purchased a Typhoon H which I flew for the first time this week. I have two questions.

1. When transitioning from hover to flight, the transition is not smooth, the Typhoon suddenly releases from locked position to moving. The best way to describe the action is "non proportional", just like a digital controller on a gamebox. It's not possible to fly the Typhoon slowly without it stop/starting from hover to flight. Anyone know the solution to resolve this as it should be possible to fly slowly and smoothly.
2. The altimeter reading seems inaccurate e.g. placed on the ground prior to take off and showing 4~6m high. Again, any solution?

Thanks

 

[prathbun]

Hi, and welcome!

1) The GPS positioning with these things is overly aggressive. I usually start out in turtle mode and go to rabbit mode while moving. You'll find that it's silky smooth when the GPS is off.
2) Get used to it. To get a (more) accurate reading, I start it up, lift off for a few seconds, land, shut-down and re-start. The barometer re-zeros every time you start the motors. You'll also see it go off when hit by a gust, in windy conditions, or at speed. Be sure to take that into account when creating and flying CCC routes. I generally give it 10-15 feet of wiggle-room when creating my missions.

 

[IdleLoop]

You could also try using the "cruise control", the right hand side trim tabs allow you to set a speed that will cancel when you wiggle the right stick. I find using this method makes for nice smooth slow flight and nice footage.

 

[Dominator]

Hi, and welcome!

1) The GPS positioning with these things is overly aggressive. I usually start out in turtle mode and go to rabbit mode while moving. You'll find that it's silky smooth when the GPS is off.
2) Get used to it. To get a (more) accurate reading, I start it up, lift off for a few seconds, land, shut-down and re-start. The barometer re-zeros every time you start the motors. You'll also see it go off when hit by a gust, in windy conditions, or at speed. Be sure to take that into account when creating and flying CCC routes. I generally give it 10-15 feet of wiggle-room when creating my missions.

Thanks prathbun. Yes flew circuits with GPS which are smoother, but somewhat defeats the purpose of having GPS. Will try your suggestion to allow the barometer to settle.

 

[Dominator]

You could also try using the "cruise control", the right hand side trim tabs allow you to set a speed that will cancel when you wiggle the right stick. I find using this method makes for nice smooth slow flight and nice footage.

Thanks IdleLoop, OK will look into this, sounds promising.

 

[Steve Carr]

Hi All,

Firstly hello everyone, newbie to the forum and from what I've seen there are some good help topics and discussion.

I've been flying r/c models for many years, multicopters for three or four years and recently purchased a Typhoon H which I flew for the first time this week. I have two questions.

1. When transitioning from hover to flight, the transition is not smooth, the Typhoon suddenly releases from locked position to moving. The best way to describe the action is "non proportional", just like a digital controller on a gamebox. It's not possible to fly the Typhoon slowly without it stop/starting from hover to flight. Anyone know the solution to resolve this as it should be possible to fly slowly and smoothly.
2. The altimeter reading seems inaccurate e.g. placed on the ground prior to take off and showing 4~6m high. Again, any solution?

Thanks

Check the firmware versions using the ST16 in "About Controller" Should be Gimbal:v1.25, Autopilot:v1.35, Camera:v3.2.34 and ST16_V3.1.30
Also check the stick calibrations using the Hardware Monitor to make certain they zero out at the center point.
All barometric altimeters are sloppy and are affected by the internal temp of the aircraft and wind.
When you boot up the H, don't touch it until it is fully booted.

 

[Dominator]

Check the firmware versions using the ST16 in "About Controller" Should be Gimbal:v1.25, Autopilot:v1.35, Camera:v3.2.34 and ST16_V3.1.30
Also check the stick calibrations using the Hardware Monitor to make certain they zero out at the center point.
All barometric altimeters are sloppy and are affected by the internal temp of the aircraft and wind.
When you boot up the H, don't touch it until it is fully booted.

Thanks Steve. Will check firmware versions, they should but up to date as I updated these, but I'll double check. I've not done the stick calibrations, but will do to see if this resolves the jerky transition. It was a very hot day when I flew, so there's every chance the heat affected the barometer. I noticed the horizontal distance was accurate, but then that's GPS.

 

[Steve Carr]

Thanks Steve. Will check firmware versions, they should but up to date as I updated these, but I'll double check. I've not done the stick calibrations, but will do to see if this resolves the jerky transition. It was a very hot day when I flew, so there's every chance the heat affected the barometer. I noticed the horizontal distance was accurate, but then that's GPS.

I haven't seen the jerky motion you describe when I fly, but I rarely fly very slow. I also have not used the cruise control pad, but I'm curious if that makes a difference.

 

[Dominator]

I haven't seen the jerky motion you describe when I fly, but I rarely fly very slow. I also have not used the cruise control pad, but I'm curious if that makes a difference.

Not tried that, but I can have a play. Need to resolve this as the CDP-C flight test requires smooth/controlled slow flying which is currently not possible.

It's a strange issue, looks like the Typhoon is locked securely in the hover, then releases suddenly in response to stick input, at which point the stick input is reduced to stop the sudden movement, the Typhoon then abruptly enters a locked in hover. If trying to climb/descend slowly at 45' it rocks on ascent and decent as it locks position/unlocks position.

 

[Steve Carr]

That's strange. I have seen some problems get resolved by deleting the current model and creating a new model and then re-bind. In this case it's worth a try.

 

[Dominator]

Yes, I'm thinking of starting from scratch, check firmware etc, that'll probably be logical step o resolve this. Flies OK other than this.

 

[BobW55]

I have no problem making very slow changes from a dead hover to forward (or any other direction) flight.
Start in turtle mode just a little stick till she starts to move, add more stick, add more slider towards RABBIT.
Remember the H is a heavy aircraft, it carries a lot of momentum and it will aggressively tilt when you release the sticks or try to make a sudden stop or direction change. Just cause the aircraft my jerk around, if you watch the camera, it will dampen out most of the movement. It took me a while to get the hang of how much stick input to give it and have the transitions smooth.

 

[CraigCam]

I agree with Bob. No one talks about how 6 motors respond vs 4 and I honestly believe the momentary jerk is design inherent and not a flaw. The camera gimbal always compensates.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Doninator, One of the first things I noticed about the H was what exactly you're seeing, it has an initial hit, then goes on its way and once it is moving - then it does all transitioning very smooth. Most people likely don't notice it but it is there. This is only on the elevator and aileron channels, the rudder (yaw) channel is very smooth in transition. I experimented trying to add expo into the Elevator and Aileron but with mixed results; it seems that no matter how flat you get the curve around center, the craft does not respond until it gets to a certain level and then begins to go.

Broken Line Rate Curve
So what I have set up on my ST16 is a type of dual rate that seems to be the best of both worlds. In this way one can leave the rate switch on the side of the transmitter at full but as the stick is moved, the rate of output is basically the same as turtle until it hits the third point and then it applies the full range of the stick movement. In this way I can have the craft react like its in turtle but can get on it pretty quick if I need to. Best of both worlds.

Pat

 

[Steve Carr]

That appears to be a creative and useful solution. Apparently I don't notice this type of response because I rarely fly less than 5 mph and usually 20-25. I have adjusted to Yaw rate to curve to and reduced the maximum output to 75. Who needs a fast yaw anyway.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Steve, thanks yeah I agree about the yaw. Coming from RC, I always try to trim the aircraft controls and one thing I noticed is that the Rudder seems about right, right out of the box but the elevator and aileron were far more aggressive in relation to the yaw, maybe by a factor of two in my opinion. But when you set the rate switch to low, then the yaw and throttle rates seems far to low (again in my opinion). I decided that I did not want to increase the yaw to match because I don't know what the limits on rotation might be and felt that this would be the best compromise.

Pat

 

[samsflite]

The H does have aggressive GPS braking, it does make you look like a rubbish pilot when transitioning from hover to forward slowly but the gimbal is so amazing that you would never spot it in the video so really it's not that much of an issue in my opinion.

 

[Ty Pilot]

For the most part I would agree, especially if the camera is facing the direction of movement. But if for example; you want to have a very slow slide shot, at slow speed it can be right at the edge where the craft is deciding to brake or go and ultimately it has a minimum speed that one would need to stay above for those slow shots. Not a problem once you know its there and plan accordingly.

Pat

 

[CraigCam]

Doninator, One of the first things I noticed about the H was what exactly you're seeing, it has an initial hit, then goes on its way and once it is moving - then it does all transitioning very smooth. Most people likely don't notice it but it is there. This is only on the elevator and aileron channels, the rudder (yaw) channel is very smooth in transition. I experimented trying to add expo into the Elevator and Aileron but with mixed results; it seems that no matter how flat you get the curve around center, the craft does not respond until it gets to a certain level and then begins to go.

Broken Line Rate Curve
So what I have set up on my ST16 is a type of dual rate that seems to be the best of both worlds. In this way one can leave the rate switch on the side of the transmitter at full but as the stick is moved, the rate of output is basically the same as turtle until it hits the third point and then it applies the full range of the stick movement. In this way I can have the craft react like its in turtle but can get on it pretty quick if I need to. Best of both worlds.

Pat

View attachment 5816

So to be clear, with these curves you leave the slider fully up all the time? That's what stopped me from playing with the stick curves because you can't tell how the slider is changing curves. It's a bummer you can't see the actual numbers change when you roll speed slider. I like this approach and I assume you can still turtle the elevator for steady slow descent.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Craig,

Yes, set up as I show above; with the slider at full (Rabbit), the crafts aileron and elevator stick movements feel very much like when the slider is set to turtle normally. This is for first 60% or so of movement from center. If you look at the output of the controls the difference of the speed slider is basically cutting the output of all the sticks from 100 at full rabbit to 60% at turtle its just a dual rate switch. So what I've done is made the rate for the first 60% of the ail/ele stick movement from center just about mimics that feel (I've set it a little higher actually)

The full 100% range is at the back 40% of the sticks movements so essentially you start off moving the sticks in turtle but have rabbit right there also. The part I like the most is now you do not have the low rates on the rudder, the rudder stays at full rate always and the control balance feels much better when doing a coordinated turn, where as before the ail/ele stick needed was very little movement from center to match half or more of the necessary stick movement for rudder yaw.

"It's a bummer you can't see the actual numbers change when you roll speed slider"

You can; just go into "Channel Settings" and on the right highlight either the aileron or elevator and you'll see a corresponding number on the left highlighted - J3 is the Elevator output. Pull the stick back and the use the slider, you'll see that the slider basically assigns a new output amount and the stick movement is still linear across its range but, it has the net effect of making the amount of output less for a given range of stick movement.

Pat