Typhoon H Pro Becomes Unstable at 14.3V

[Steveromo19]

@Steveromo19
I'm getting the feeling you will never be satisfied with this machine and therefore you should return it. It really sounds like you need a perfect bird and maybe you will find one.

You mentioned flying after a snowfall which means the temp is going to affect the battery and the bird. I often stay with 10-12 minute flights when it's cold. I adjust to the situation.
You mentioned the altimeter changes during flight. Of course. It's a barometric altimeter and is affected by temp. It provides a rough translation of altitude. A 10-20' error is normal. I can live with that.
Your's drifts a few feet in hover after rapid maneuvers. Yup. That will happen.

If it's 40 degrees and you want to push it to a low voltage warning and still have everything go perfectly, do yourself a favor and find a machine to your liking.

Steve,

I don't need a perfect bird. I just want mine to work the way it did the first couple weeks I had it. It did not drift at all and when I hit 14.3v it was rock solid at the first battery warning until I landed it. I am trying to figure out why it is exhibiting its weird behavior and toilet bowl movement. I only bring up the altitude because I thought the difference in measurement could be a symptom of the underlying issue.

 

[Steve Carr]

Call Yuneec and see what they can do. No one on this forum can fix the issues you are having. If you don't want to take a chance on sending it in then your best option is to return it.

 

[ArnhemAnt]

Steve,

I don't need a perfect bird. I just want mine to work the way it did the first couple weeks I had it. It did not drift at all and when I hit 14.3v it was rock solid at the first battery warning until I landed it. I am trying to figure out why it is exhibiting its weird behavior and toilet bowl movement. I only bring up the altitude because I thought the difference in measurement could be a symptom of the underlying issue.

It still sounds like a battery issue could be the cause. Do you know anyone close by that has a Yuneec battery you could borrow to test this theory out?

 

[NorWiscPilot]

Call Yuneec and see what they can do. No one on this forum can fix the issues you are having. If you don't want to take a chance on sending it in then your best option is to return it.

Steve and Steve,

I am currently working this very issue. Maybe not 100% exactly the same, but close enough, per my post above. My H worked without apparent issues for 40+ flights, then started this circling behavior.

Maybe the answers I get from Yuneec will shed some light on this overall issue and perhaps give Steveromo19 what he needs to move forward with the issues with his H.

Patience I guess, is what I am implying. Yuneec has my detailed information. The only thing I see different is that Steveromo19 encounters the "circling flight" at different or all altitudes, whereas my bird can be made to circle at 4 ft. but is fine above that.

Something changed, as Steveromo19 is stating and as I am.

Maybe by Tuesday, this coming week, we might have more insight as to possible remedies.

Jeff

 

[Steve Carr]

Steve and Steve,

I am currently working this very issue. Maybe not 100% exactly the same, but close enough, per my post above. My H worked without apparent issues for 40+ flights, then started this circling behavior.

Maybe the answers I get from Yuneec will shed some light on this overall issue and perhaps give Steveromo19 what he needs to move forward with the issues with his H.

Patience I guess, is what I am implying. Yuneec has my detailed information. The only thing I see different is that Steveromo19 encounters the "circling flight" at different or all altitudes, whereas my bird can be made to circle at 4 ft. but is fine above that.

Something changed, as Steveromo19 is stating and as I am.

Maybe by Tuesday, this coming week, we might have more insight as to possible remedies.

Jeff

The original post indicates @Steveromo19 needs a quick fix so he does not run past the 30 return window. That is unlikely. Most of the units that had the TB had to be returned to get the GPS or compass module replaced. Most of those were early models and later models did not seem to have the issue. So my advise stands, to return it while he can.

I will note 2 items which I think are important in flying the H.
1. Launch and Landing should be done with authority. Take off with max left stick to 15' or so. Commit to the landing with full left stick down. If you are timid with the throttle you will get unstable flight.
2. Cold weather presents a whole new set of dynamics on flying. With rapid climbs and maneuvers the batt voltage will drop quickly. Once the voltage is below 15v there is very little reserve and you are close to a forced landing or loss of control.

 

[Mutley]

I had the same problems a couple of times as mentioned but only after I had gone below the Battery warning level. I decided after that to not get to the Battery warning and have not had a problem since, pure luck rather than any Scientific analysis of the problem, far too stupid for that

 

[NorWiscPilot]

The original post indicates @Steveromo19 needs a quick fix so he does not run past the 30 return window. That is unlikely. Most of the units that had the TB had to be returned to get the GPS or compass module replaced. Most of those were early models and later models did not seem to have the issue. So my advise stands, to return it while he can.

I will note 2 items which I think are important in flying the H.
1. Launch and Landing should be done with authority. Take off with max left stick to 15' or so. Commit to the landing with full left stick down. If you are timid with the throttle you will get unstable flight.
2. Cold weather presents a whole new set of dynamics on flying. With rapid climbs and maneuvers the batt voltage will drop quickly. Once the voltage is below 15v there is very little reserve and you are close to a forced landing or loss of control.

Steve,

After a little re-read, your point is spot on. I had forgotten about Steveromo19's need to decide if he wants to return his Typhoon H or keep it. Thanks for that memory refresh.

I agree with your assessment: the real decision is whether Steve wants to keep his H and work through the issues, exceeding his return window or return it and perhaps start over. The point of my recent reply to the both of you was that perhaps, in just a few days, we might have some answers as to what Yuneec thinks needs to be done for my bird.

I suspect the altimeter and/or compass systems have either failed or are degrading, either hardware or calibration drift, if there is such a thing. Perhaps the electronics have become sensitive to voltage in some units. My testing for my H, says no to that theory as I can reproduce at any voltage and... I have the benefit of an exact scenario that can reproduce the behavior. Since I had 40+ without apparent issues before unexpected behavior ensued, I am confident a fix will be forthcoming.

Agree: it is up to Steveromo19 as to whether he wants to wait, either for my end fix or his own, or return his H while he can, waiting for results before he jumps back in.

Thanks!

Jeff

 

[Steveromo19]

So I have decided to keep the H. There is no other drone on the market that I like more even in the higher price ranges. I would not mind a new H520 but since it's not out I will stick with the H pro.

I have ordered 3 new Genstattu batteries. When they come I will fully charge them and put them to the test to see If I have stability at 14.3v.

Again, it was not my intention to get a quick fix. It was also not that I expect a 22 battery time flight or for this drone to be this flawless and perfect machine. My intention was to:

1.) See if anyone had experienced this issue and found a sure fire diagnosis - either via sending it back to yuneec or having an epiphany moment (hey - it's a bad battery I had this happen a month ago or oh didn't you hear Yuneec had a bad GPS batch from months X to X)

2.) To make the right decision based on the information I received as whether to return it or sit tight for Yuneec to fix it.

I will tell you this.

I understand that there are irregularities with behavior based on many factors such as temperature, wind, wifi interference, ect. My H has CHANGED in it's behavior from the time I bought it. It was flying DIFFERENTLY and was doing it all the time. I fully respect that a lot of members land early for their own reasons however I was going past this point just fine to begin with when I bought the bird. I intend to diagnose why it is acting different now. I am starting to think ArhemAnt is pointing me in the right direction. Last night a flew a battery to 14.3v and had NO issues with instability.

I remember a little while back I had trouble with my landing gear. On two separate occasions the right landing gear would not come down. On those two occasions I hit the low battery warning and unfortunately had to "catch" the H out of the air. Since I was not so experienced doing this the H fought me HARD while I was trying to figure out how to turn it off. I eventually just hit the power button but for a good 20 - 25 seconds each time I was trying to shut if off with one hand via the ST16. I later took apart that landing gear leg and had found the positive lead became disconnected slightly from the motor. I re soldered it and no issues since.

Where am I going with this? I will tell you.

I remember trying to charge these batteries after both incidents and getting the "Blue battery Light Error" on the charger. After unplugging and plugging the battery back in a few times it started to charge on both occasions.

I now believe that these two batteries were over discharged and maybe be the reason I am experiencing the symptoms I am.

I will do more research tonight and tests on the batteries I have.

A totally discharged Yuneec battery will be at 13.4v. This has been confirmed several places on these forums. I in no way shape or form believe that I should take the batteries past 14.1v but it is my firm belief that you should be able to take these batteries safely down to the first warning without losing flight stability. Whether it will kill the lifespan of my battery is a totally different story, and when batteries are $55 - $100 each it really makes no difference to me 300 recharges or 1000. I would rather have a few extra minutes of fun in the air.

Thank you all that have helped me out. If I find the solution I will be sure to post it so others having the same issues can reflect. I will also post the response I receive from Yuneec customer support. I will figure it out one way or the other.

 

[FlushVision]

So I have decided to keep the H. There is no other drone on the market that I like more even in the higher price ranges. I would not mind a new H520 but since it's not out I will stick with the H pro.

I have ordered 3 new Genstattu batteries. When they come I will fully charge them and put them to the test to see If I have stability at 14.3v.

Again, it was not my intention to get a quick fix. It was also not that I expect a 22 battery time flight or for this drone to be this flawless and perfect machine. My intention was to:

1.) See if anyone had experienced this issue and found a sure fire diagnosis - either via sending it back to yuneec or having an epiphany moment (hey - it's a bad battery I had this happen a month ago or oh didn't you hear Yuneec had a bad GPS batch from months X to X)

2.) To make the right decision based on the information I received as whether to return it or sit tight for Yuneec to fix it.

I will tell you this.

I understand that there are irregularities with behavior based on many factors such as temperature, wind, wifi interference, ect. My H has CHANGED in it's behavior from the time I bought it. It was flying DIFFERENTLY and was doing it all the time. I fully respect that a lot of members land early for their own reasons however I was going past this point just fine to begin with when I bought the bird. I intend to diagnose why it is acting different now. I am starting to think ArhemAnt is pointing me in the right direction. Last night a flew a battery to 14.3v and had NO issues with instability.

I remember a little while back I had trouble with my landing gear. On two separate occasions the right landing gear would not come down. On those two occasions I hit the low battery warning and unfortunately had to "catch" the H out of the air. Since I was not so experienced doing this the H fought me HARD while I was trying to figure out how to turn it off. I eventually just hit the power button but for a good 20 - 25 seconds each time I was trying to shut if off with one hand via the ST16. I later took apart that landing gear leg and had found the positive lead became disconnected slightly from the motor. I re soldered it and no issues since.

Where am I going with this? I will tell you.

I remember trying to charge these batteries after both incidents and getting the "Blue battery Light Error" on the charger. After unplugging and plugging the battery back in a few times it started to charge on both occasions.

I now believe that these two batteries were over discharged and maybe be the reason I am experiencing the symptoms I am.

I will do more research tonight and tests on the batteries I have.

A totally discharged Yuneec battery will be at 13.4v. This has been confirmed several places on these forums. I in no way shape or form believe that I should take the batteries past 14.1v but it is my firm belief that you should be able to take these batteries safely down to the first warning without losing flight stability. Whether it will kill the lifespan of my battery is a totally different story, and when batteries are $55 - $100 each it really makes no difference to me 300 recharges or 1000. I would rather have a few extra minutes of fun in the air.

Thank you all that have helped me out. If I find the solution I will be sure to post it so others having the same issues can reflect. I will also post the response I receive from Yuneec customer support. I will figure it out one way or the other.

In my opinion, and I'm sure that others may disagree with me on this, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to expect a stable flight down to 14.3v. Although I tend to be landed by about 14.5 volts I have, on a few occasions, been down to 14.3v and on one occasion still been in the air at 14.1v. I have to say, though, that on the occasion I did take it down to 14.1v I had some issues but it wasn't a battery issue: I'd caught the 'smart mode' switch without noticing it (thankfully no damage done).

AllI have to say is that if you are getting instability at 14.3 volts, something (and I don't know what) is not right with it.

 

[PatR]

I do not think it unreasonable to think degradation of the compass/GPS module might be in play. Such a condition has been an issue for many systems, and continues to be one. The issue has been there since aero modeling was first provided GPS coordinated flight. The enemy of electrical components is heat, and the effects of heat are accumulative. Packing all the guidance components into a very confined space with a heat generation source directly beneath them has never made any sense to me. At least elevate the GPS antenna to a location away from a heat source. It would be interesting to place a thermocouple inside the H shell near the GPS/compass unit to establish reference data for how much heat soak the system experiences. If above 40C-50C or so there might be cause for considering heat as a "smoking gun" that could degrade system performance. There is also the possibility that power leads from the battery or main control board are generating noise that interfere with the GPS/compass module. Those that build their own aircraft know to separate the GPS unit as far from batteries and high voltage wires by as much distance as possible, or to shield the GPS from those noise sources.

Two other things are potential factors here though. At 4' or so above the ground the aircraft is still well within the effects of its rotor wash bouncing up from the ground, which is destabilizing. There's also the outside air temperature factor. When cold, batteries do not perform very well, with voltages decreasing rapidly and flight times significantly reduced, at a rate that is not predictable. Halving the flight time obtained under "normal" conditions would not be an out of line initial estimate, and could be even less for the actual conditions. Although a battery produces heat when being used, in cold temperatures they produce a little more heat and generate higher IR, which reduces performance even further while inducing cell damage.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

I do not think it unreasonable to think degradation of the compass/GPS module might be in play. Such a condition has been an issue for many systems, and continues to be one. The issue has been there since aero modeling was first provided GPS coordinated flight. The enemy of electrical components is heat, and the effects of heat are accumulative. Packing all the guidance components into a very confined space with a heat generation source directly beneath them has never made any sense to me. At least elevate the GPS antenna to a location away from a heat source. It would be interesting to place a thermocouple inside the H shell near the GPS/compass unit to establish reference data for how much heat soak the system experiences. If above 40C-50C or so there might be cause for considering heat as a "smoking gun" that could degrade system performance. There is also the possibility that power leads from the battery or main control board are generating noise that interfere with the GPS/compass module. Those that build their own aircraft know to separate the GPS unit as far from batteries and high voltage wires by as much distance as possible, or to shield the GPS from those noise sources.

Two other things are potential factors here though. At 4' or so above the ground the aircraft is still well within the effects of its rotor wash bouncing up from the ground, which is destabilizing. There's also the outside air temperature factor. When cold, batteries do not perform very well, with voltages decreasing rapidly and flight times significantly reduced, at a rate that is not predictable. Halving the flight time obtained under "normal" conditions would not be an out of line initial estimate, and could be even less for the actual conditions. Although a battery produces heat when being used, in cold temperatures they produce a little more heat and generate higher IR, which reduces performance even further while inducing cell damage.

PatR,

Very valid points regarding heat and possible component degradation. We will see what Yuneec says.

I also plan to order another H, maybe just the bird. I need a backup regardless, as well as if I am told to send my original back, I need something to fill the void. It also will give me a chance to test our theories.

At the risk of repeating: my 4 foot test was the height at which I noticed the circling starting. Having repeated the test with a fully charged battery, getting the same results, I do not believe voltage is the issue, at least in this craft.

Also, in my quest to learn everything I can as far as how the H performs in various conditions and attitudes, I am quite confident I had tried the low hover many times in the past without issue. I did testing to observe ground effects and the like, at differing heights.

Another reason I am anxious to get another hull. Test and control units!

One important element I keep forgetting to mention: my first episode with this circling didn't include just the circling.

The first time - the motors did not idle down completely, and tried to tip the H. The motor kill button saved it.

The second time - the motors won and flipped the H before I could get them shut down.

In my subsequent official testing - landings were uneventful once I regained control (stopped the circling) either by turning off the GPS or regaining altitude and landing directly without delay.

Hopefully the motors/flip issue can continue to be mitigated using a direct no hovering landing procedure while we search for a final and complete fix, whether hardware, firmware, procedures, or all, to the overall cause.

Thanks for your comments. This is all good knowledge and theory sharing!

Jeff

 

[NorWiscPilot]

So I have decided to keep the H. There is no other drone on the market that I like more even in the higher price ranges. I would not mind a new H520 but since it's not out I will stick with the H pro.

I have ordered 3 new Genstattu batteries. When they come I will fully charge them and put them to the test to see If I have stability at 14.3v.

Again, it was not my intention to get a quick fix. It was also not that I expect a 22 battery time flight or for this drone to be this flawless and perfect machine. My intention was to:

1.) See if anyone had experienced this issue and found a sure fire diagnosis - either via sending it back to yuneec or having an epiphany moment (hey - it's a bad battery I had this happen a month ago or oh didn't you hear Yuneec had a bad GPS batch from months X to X)

2.) To make the right decision based on the information I received as whether to return it or sit tight for Yuneec to fix it.

I will tell you this.

I understand that there are irregularities with behavior based on many factors such as temperature, wind, wifi interference, ect. My H has CHANGED in it's behavior from the time I bought it. It was flying DIFFERENTLY and was doing it all the time. I fully respect that a lot of members land early for their own reasons however I was going past this point just fine to begin with when I bought the bird. I intend to diagnose why it is acting different now. I am starting to think ArhemAnt is pointing me in the right direction. Last night a flew a battery to 14.3v and had NO issues with instability.

I remember a little while back I had trouble with my landing gear. On two separate occasions the right landing gear would not come down. On those two occasions I hit the low battery warning and unfortunately had to "catch" the H out of the air. Since I was not so experienced doing this the H fought me HARD while I was trying to figure out how to turn it off. I eventually just hit the power button but for a good 20 - 25 seconds each time I was trying to shut if off with one hand via the ST16. I later took apart that landing gear leg and had found the positive lead became disconnected slightly from the motor. I re soldered it and no issues since.

Where am I going with this? I will tell you.

I remember trying to charge these batteries after both incidents and getting the "Blue battery Light Error" on the charger. After unplugging and plugging the battery back in a few times it started to charge on both occasions.

I now believe that these two batteries were over discharged and maybe be the reason I am experiencing the symptoms I am.

I will do more research tonight and tests on the batteries I have.

A totally discharged Yuneec battery will be at 13.4v. This has been confirmed several places on these forums. I in no way shape or form believe that I should take the batteries past 14.1v but it is my firm belief that you should be able to take these batteries safely down to the first warning without losing flight stability. Whether it will kill the lifespan of my battery is a totally different story, and when batteries are $55 - $100 each it really makes no difference to me 300 recharges or 1000. I would rather have a few extra minutes of fun in the air.

Thank you all that have helped me out. If I find the solution I will be sure to post it so others having the same issues can reflect. I will also post the response I receive from Yuneec customer support. I will figure it out one way or the other.

Steve,

I look forward to your updates and will be sure to pass along my own findings as they become available. Hopefully some very good cause and effect data, along with the concrete remedies and recommendations, will be the result. I trust the rest of the H community will participate as well as hope for the same.

Jeff

 

[Steve Carr]

@NorWiscPilot
@Steveromo19
I might be well to install the latest H firmware which was posted yesterday. This updates the Autopilot. Downloads - Yuneec

Please note: You will need to do all the calibrations and wait the 13 minutes after the first boot of the bird for a solid GPS fix. They suggest following the upgrade video, so you will need to delete the flight data and create a new model and rebind the aircraft and camera.

 

[Typhoon Charlie]

I bet a 6 Pack that the compass unit is the culprit.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

@NorWiscPilot
@Steveromo19
I might be well to install the latest H firmware which was posted yesterday. This updates the Autopilot. Downloads - Yuneec

Please note: You will need to do all the calibrations and wait the 13 minutes after the first boot of the bird for a solid GPS fix. They suggest following the upgrade video, so you will need to delete the flight data and create a new model and rebind the aircraft and camera.

Steve,

Great!

Anxious to read what you find.

I may wait until I hear back from Yuneec before I try the update. That may very well be their recommendation.

On a side note: not sure about a release on March 17th. I have a few friends who tend to celebrate the day just a bit too much, and I wouldn't trust anything they say, let alone anything they would "publish"!



(Couldn't resist!)

Jeff

 

[PatR]

If buying another H, consider going shopping for a second -16. The ability to use a second operator is very much worth the additional expense,

 

[Steve Carr]

If buying another H, consider going shopping for a second -16. The ability to use a second operator is very much worth the additional expense,

That's what I did and for the same reason. Now if I could only find a second pilot or camera operator.

 

[PatR]

You're going to have to create one. If not already attached, find the prettiest girl with a propensity for wearing tight clothes you can locate and train her. Does a couple of things; gives you some eye candy and has the male customers ogling the camera operator, keeping her on the shoot longer and boosting your collectible for your hourly rate.

 

[Steve Carr]

You're going to have to create one. If not already attached, find the prettiest girl with a propensity for wearing tight clothes you can locate and train her. Does a couple of things; gives you some eye candy and has the male customers ogling the camera operator, keeping her on the shoot longer and boosting your collectible for your hourly rate.

I like your reasoning on this. Since I'm 70 I'll actually be looking for anyone who can move around well with their walker. I'll keep my eye out for a fancy one that has the foldout seat. Trifocals will be mandatory. We'll still draw a crowd. I'm used to the point and laugh routine when I'm flying.

 

[PatR]

Sounds just about perfect to me.