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AirMap - good for the industry and hobby?

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Folks,

Looks like a discussion is about to begin about AirMap, following a comment I made in this thread.

Therefore so stop the thread getting hijacked, lets discuss here.

User Panomapic asked me about some evidence about what i see as some very self serving behaviour from AirMap. I heard most of what I recall from a FB group I was part of due to subscription I no longer pay. However a quick search brings up the following;

BONUS EPISODE: Should drone pilots be supporting Airmap? - Drone U™

The Drone Innovation Act and AirMap’s Support: Good or Bad for Drone Operators?
 

Steve Carr

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Airmap attempted to influence the way airspace is used by UAV's. They proposed limiting the use in a manner that would have been good for Airmap and bad for UAV's.


 
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Phaedrus

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Which is why I think it is a good thing that the FAA B4UFly app is now going to be powered by Kittyhawk.
 
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arruntus

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I didn't know about this topic but it's clear that in every house are cook beans (it's a saying in my language and it means that don't look at the bad things of others when there are bad things in your house too).

I give my opinion, even though it doesn't affect me directly, although indirectly it can do it tomorrow, even more so, when in Europe are creating a common space and regulations for drones and in principle will be independent of the member countries. In other words, we exchange countries for states and we are in the same case. A single and common regulation for all countries.

I agree that each country (state) should take appropriate measures to enforce drone regulations or laws. In no case do I or will I agree that each country can establish its own rules. The confusion and chaos that it can cause to operators and pilots every time they change country (state) can be very great. In my opinion for all the same normative, that each state provides or facilitates the means to enforce them, including forming a table formed by each country to contribute ideas that make the highest air authority change, add or remove regulations.

In Europe, a common airspace is being created, just like with manned aircrafts, which is even accepted internationally and it turns out that in the United States there seem to be people promoting just the opposite? It makes no sense, like crabs, to walk backwards.

P.S.: Have I forgotten to comment on the most important thing, if I understood it rightly, to put the regulation in private hands with economic interests in it? No thanks.
 
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I get the TFR thing, I didn't know about that; I'd still like to see something a little more rigorous than the work of a blogger, though. All the other stuff seems kind of... Meh? I don't see anything in there that would make me consider not using Airmap, to be honest.
 

arruntus

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I get the TFR thing, I didn't know about that; I'd still like to see something a little more rigorous than the work of a blogger, though. All the other stuff seems kind of... Meh? I don't see anything in there that would make me consider not using Airmap, to be honest.
I think it's not about you using it or not, I think it's not the issue. If they have a service that meets your expectations why you're not going to use it. Another thing is that you consent or support, what I understand, that they pretend when it goes against your own interests, it would not make sense.

Another thing is to be told, do not use that service because just by using it you are supporting that you end up damaged in the long run. So, objectively, you should think about it. At least that's how I understand it :rolleyes:
 
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It really seems to me that this is a lot of irrational fear regarding integrating drones into the national airspace, stemming from less than robust reporting on these matters. The industry is maturing; we aren't in the regulatory wild west anymore.
 

NorWiscPilot

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An editorial:

What I see as the larger concern feeding this “fear” is the expectation or assumption regarding the current and projected sales figures of unmanned aerial systems. Statements such as “...with millions of drones being sold every year, the likelihood of incursion into restricted airspace increases.”

As I have stated before, the number of UAS out there has nothing to do with the above stated “fear”. Rather, the true issue is more accurately stated as “if the increase in drone population includes a [proportional] increase in the numbers of UAS operators who do not know, or choose not the follow already established rules and regulations, the likelihood of unwanted incursions may increase.”

Additionally, what seems to be implied is an expectation that all these millions of drones will be in the air every day (and night) and all day long.

Leaving commercial operations out of the discussion for now, how many “casual” operators buy a drone, try flying it for awhile, then put it on the shelf maybe taking it out every so often? I am betting the number is commensurate with other hobbies hitting a “mainstream” status then fading while the next big thing starts up.

Case in point... there are only two drone owners in my neighborhood. While on a good stretch I may fly every day, maybe multiple times a day; I am only flying for maybe 30 minutes total for each session. Likely less. I may also go for days without flying.

My neighbor, on the other hand... I’ve “heard” his UAS twice, and have had visual on it only once, during the past year.

Not saying this is the norm; just saying I am of the opinion the perceived attempt at creating a “the sky is falling” apprehension is more to do with the justification aspect of proposing tighter regulations and these similar “for profit” schemes regarding these unnecessary additional restrictions, is more akin to the truth of the matter than a concern for safer skies.

Respectfully submitted,

Jeff

P.S. reserving the right for future edits as I am posting this via mobile, waiting on a car full of kids enjoying a St. Patty’s Day event. ☘☘☘

And many edits have made I. ☘
 
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arruntus

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An editorial:

What I see as the larger concern feeding this “fear” is the expectation or assumption regarding the current and projected sales figures of unmanned aerial systems. Statements such as “...with millions of drones being sold every year, the likelihood of incursion into restricted airspace increases.”

As I have stated before, the number of UAS out there has nothing to do with the above stated “fear”. Rather, the true issue is more accurately stated as “if the increase in drone population includes a [proportional] increase in the numbers of UAS operators who do not know, or choose not the follow already established rules and regulations, the likelihood of unwanted incursions may increase.”

Additionally, what seems to be implied is an expectation that all these millions of drones will be in the air every day (and night) and all day long.

Leaving commercial operations out of the discussion for now, how many “casual” operators buy a drone, try flying it for awhile, then put it on the shelf maybe taking it out every so often? I am betting the number is commensurate with other hobbies hitting a “mainstream” status then fading while the next big thing starts up.

Case in point... there are only two drone owners in my neighborhood. While on a good stretch I may fly every day, maybe multiple times a day; I am only flying for maybe 30 minutes total for each session. Likely less. I may also go for days without flying.

My neighbor, on the other hand... I’ve “heard” his UAS twice, and have had visual on it only once, during the past year.

Not saying this is the norm; just saying I am of the opinion the perceived attempt at creating a “the sky is falling” apprehension is more to do with the justification aspect of proposing tighter regulations and these similar “for profit” schemes regarding these unnecessary additional restrictions, is more akin to the truth of the matter than a concern for safer skies.

Respectfully submitted,

Jeff

P.S. reserving the right for future edits as I am posting this via mobile, waiting on a car full of kids enjoying a St. Patty’s Day event. ☘☘☘

And many edits have made I. ☘
I agree with what you're saying, but I have a question. What do you call an operator? Wouldn't it be better to call him a pilot? Why do I ask this?

The figure we have of operator here is "the company", who legally can invoice, can be "autonomous" (like me, enterpriseusually formed by a single person) or a company with several or many workers. An amateur, who cannot bill or charge for money, is not legally a figure who can do it, if he flies a drone, he is simply a drone pilot.

In the case of sole proprietorships, the same person is the operator, the pilot............., he is everything.

In any commercial passenger airline, Iberia for example, the operator of air services would be Iberia and then the pilots who work in that company would be the pilots but not operators. That's not how it works there?
 

Steve Carr

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the pilots who work in that company would be the pilots but not operators. That's not how it works there?
That is a rather heated topic in many circles. Some general aviation pilots get red in the face with bulging eyes when they hear "drone pilot". The FAA even seems to struggle with the term. RPIC has been referred to as Responsible Pilot in Charge but some have claimed that is Person not Pilot.
 

NorWiscPilot

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I agree with what you're saying, but I have a question. What do you call an operator? Wouldn't it be better to call him a pilot? Why do I ask this?

The figure we have of operator here is "the company", who legally can invoice, can be "autonomous" (like me, enterpriseusually formed by a single person) or a company with several or many workers. An amateur, who cannot bill or charge for money, is not legally a figure who can do it, if he flies a drone, he is simply a drone pilot.

In the case of sole proprietorships, the same person is the operator, the pilot............., he is everything.

In any commercial passenger airline, Iberia for example, the operator of air services would be Iberia and then the pilots who work in that company would be the pilots but not operators. That's not how it works there?
Hi @arruntus,

First, I apologize for not stating earlier in my editorial that I was leaving “commercial operations” out of this discussion, for now. I did state it, but after I had used the term “operator”.

I made a deliberate use of operator, in the context of my editorial. The reason: I do not want to use a title that I consider a privilege, when referencing a person or persons who choose to fly outside of established rules of the sky, whether out of ignorance or simple disregard.

The only other descriptor I could think of at the time was “operator”.

The point I was trying to make was in no way intended to be equated to any commercial operation.

Hope the above adequately explains my point of reference.

Jeff
 
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arruntus

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xDDDdddddddddddddd Understood Jeff, what Steve says happens here, too.

The problem arises because the regulations specify and clearly distinguish between the two figures with exactly those two names, pilots and operators. It was another of the questions we asked AESA, imagine the situation, a congress hall full of operators and professional pilots angry because they have hardened the rules and in front of 3 people responsible of AESA.

You impose very tough rules on us, you are saying that we have to comply with the rules in exactly the same way as pilots of manned aircraft but you do not distinguish us as such, as pilots. You don't even identify us with a licence, such as a driving licence or an identity card, right now we only have a simple sheet issued to us by an ATO (an official school for pilots of manned aircraft). They told us they were studying it, it's been a year............ They demand of us and they demand of us but then we are not recognized.

Even the medical certificate card, which is exactly the same as that of pilots of piloted aircraft has more appearance of legal (The medical examinations we have to pass are exactly the same as those that pass the rest of pilots), with the seals of AESA and so on.

In short, I think it's the same as here, they want us to do everything exactly the same as the other pilots but then we are not recognised as such, although the only thing that changes is the type of aircraft 😥
 
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