Blackhawk==National Transportation Safety Board Aviation Incident Final Report

[Jagerbomb52]

htmlReport

 

[AH-1G]

Very thorough investigation. Another reason when purchasing a drone is to have mandatory classes.

 

[gwhuntoon]

Maybe if they were a little less computerized / automated and actually required skill they wouldn't just attract anyone with means and a pulse.

 

[Ty Pilot]

This from the report says it all>

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident to be:

The failure of the sUAS pilot to see and avoid the helicopter due to his intentional flight beyond visual line of sight. Contributing to the incident was the sUAS pilot's incomplete knowledge of the regulations and safe operating practices.

 

[gwhuntoon]

Well, I will share an opinion on this. I think when a manufacturer knowingly manufactures an unbelievably complicated product under the hood and yet, externally, is dumbed down to the point where anyone can use it, then the manufacturer takes on extra liability due to the fact that they're taking on functions which are out of the operators control. Case in point, preventing arming the motors when in a flight restricted area. One point in the article was the drone pilot had a tablet without a cellular link so current flight data could only be gathered via WiFi. Ok, so how do you fix this? Maybe you prevent the motors from arming unless flight data is current. DJI does this with firmware updates (which I personally hate) but maybe making sure flight data is current and stored offline in the drone as well as ensuring the GPS almanac is current and current calibrations have been performed before allowing arming of the motors isn't such a bad idea.

I know the experienced among us hate the thought of more restrictions, and some have signed waivers to have them lifted via firmware which is fine. But for those who are inexperienced enough to not even realize an exemption is possible, maybe, just maybe, the drone should be prevented from flying unless certain conditions have been met.

This is just an opinion, but I'm trying to think of ideas which will protect our hobby and businesses so we can continue to enjoy the freedoms we do have before the ill informed and inexperienced, bring the heavy hand of restrictions down upon us and potentially kill our fun for good.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I agree totally. While I hate restrictions, the other side of the coin is far worse. We're in an uphill battle all the way. Industry doesn't want to limit it's sales to only those who have proven their worthiness as an sUAV systems operator, so they market them to the lowest common denominator. A similar thing has/is happening in a different industry - motorcycles.

Used to be you could just walk in and buy any bike you wanted and ride out on a bike capable of astonishing performance - sub 9 second quarter mile runs. I don't know about other states but here in Florida, you now must get an endorsement by taking an MSF course to prove at least a little proficiency at riding a motorcycle. For a new rider this costs about the same as taking our part 107 and you will spend several hours in classroom and again outside on a closed course. And yet motorcycle sales have not plummeted.

I know I will take heat for this but; I think a similar path might be the way. (Que dream time) Maybe manufacturers could hire experienced pilots to hold the courses and certify new incoming pilots, let the newbs pay for, and earn; their entry into the hobby/profession. This is how it works with the MSF courses. Then, reorganize the UAV classification system entirely - NOT based on weight but rather on capability. Maybe make range, height, payload and speed, limitations on unrestricted "drones", then sell the restricted UAV's only to operators that have passed the minimum course. From there you could add more steps all the way up to a fully unrestricted 107 operator. Then all the geo fencing could be standardized based on the classification. I know, I'm just dreaming out loud.

Imagine this - A guy walks into a BestBuy and asks the "tech-expert", "hey, where are the drones" and he gets shown the corner display with all the pink and rainbow colored, starter drones. Then he sees all the good stuff and asks "I want one of these" and is told he needs to have his endorsement for UAV Pilot's Standards. I believe perspective pilots would in general go through the steps. The ones that wouldn't? Probably a good thing. Flying these aircraft is a little more serious than some can comprehend such as the DJI pilot in the Blackhawk incident.

I think its just going to take a long time for the system to adapt and organize because on one hand you have those who legislate and regulate, operating at a snails pace and on the other hand, the industry and technology are moving and growing at increasing speed.

 

[PatR]

Brought over from a duplicate thread.
Drone Operator Faulted In NY Collision With Helicopter - Yeshiva World News

A few things to take away from this event.

• The aircraft was ~2.5 miles from the operator
• The operator was unconcerned about flying BLOS despite LOS regulations
• The operator was unaware of the TFR
• The operator was not fully cognizant of safety of flight regulations
• Not noted in this article, but factual, DJI provided collected flight and system data to identify the operator
• The operator is now open to numerous FAA violation sanctions and liable for damages to the helicopter

Most of you know this but it's not a video game folks. There can be very serious consequences when things are done wrong with a multirotor or other RC aircraft.

 

[CraigCam]

Interesting that DJI provided data so it’s not protected like your phone. I believe that was part of forced firmware upgrade last summer where accepting the firmware also gave permission to get flight data. Obviously DJI is holding that info in their data base. It seems the Yuneec system does not have our data based on their own customer service responses. DJI has openly marketed flying without regard to FAA guidelines since the marketing of the original big octocopter with shots over public buildings and spaces. Early Phantom pilots flew over crowds all the time. None of this surprises me.

 

[PatR]

GW,

There was some other information in the report that was pretty important. Evidently the DJI GEO system had been experiencing issues and after complaints from customers DJI elected to temporarily disable it--but did not inform their customers that it was going to be, or had been disabled. Since DJI sets up their equipment in a manner that makes users dependent on the flight restriction information display, by not publicizing the shut down of the flight restriction data system they may well be held partially liable

Also mentioned was the design range of the transmitter of over 3 miles! By designing in such a range users are indirectly encouraged by the manufacturer to fly long distances because they know they can and still maintain control of the aircraft.

 

[AH-1G]

Here we see this individuals ignorance, or his attorney advised him to be ignorant about FAA rules. Yet many people are ignorant and want to be ignorant when it comes to rules. No respect for safety.

 

[PatR]

Yea, it appears the "I didn't know" ignorance of the law excuse was put up in lights for this one, and I suspect you're correct in it being used after advice from someone else. Thing is, it doesn't work.

Since people want to act like pilots it may well be they'll have to train a little like pilots before they can fly this stuff. It's too easy to do the wrong thing if you don't know what the right things are.

 

[bb1040]

I agree totally. While I hate restrictions, the other side of the coin is far worse. We're in an uphill battle all the way. Industry doesn't want to limit it's sales to only those who have proven their worthiness as an sUAV systems operator, so they market them to the lowest common denominator. A similar thing has/is happening in a different industry - motorcycles.

Used to be you could just walk in and buy any bike you wanted and ride out on a bike capable of astonishing performance - sub 9 second quarter mile runs. I don't know about other states but here in Florida, you now must get an endorsement by taking an MSF course to prove at least a little proficiency at riding a motorcycle. For a new rider this costs about the same as taking our part 107 and you will spend several hours in classroom and again outside on a closed course. And yet motorcycle sales have not plummeted.

I know I will take heat for this but; I think a similar path might be the way. (Que dream time) Maybe manufacturers could hire experienced pilots to hold the courses and certify new incoming pilots, let the newbs pay for, and earn; their entry into the hobby/profession. This is how it works with the MSF courses. Then, reorganize the UAV classification system entirely - NOT based on weight but rather on capability. Maybe make range, height, payload and speed, limitations on unrestricted "drones", then sell the restricted UAV's only to operators that have passed the minimum course. From there you could add more steps all the way up to a fully unrestricted 107 operator. Then all the geo fencing could be standardized based on the classification. I know, I'm just dreaming out loud.

Imagine this - A guy walks into a BestBuy and asks the "tech-expert", "hey, where are the drones" and he gets shown the corner display with all the pink and rainbow colored, starter drones. Then he sees all the good stuff and asks "I want one of these" and is told he needs to have his endorsement for UAV Pilot's Standards. I believe perspective pilots would in general go through the steps. The ones that wouldn't? Probably a good thing. Flying these aircraft is a little more serious than some can comprehend such as the DJI pilot in the Blackhawk incident.

I think its just going to take a long time for the system to adapt and organize because on one hand you have those who legislate and regulate, operating at a snails pace and on the other hand, the industry and technology are moving and growing at increasing speed.

Funny how they didn't have these problems and new laws, before the quad-copters came along and all of a sudden,everything that flew by radio control, were called drones......How many decades were people fling RC planes and helicopters , without all these new restrictive laws........A long time ago I built an RC airplane, and tried to fly it, did not need a registration or expensive flight school, just went out to the field and flew.....granted a quad-copter is easier to fly, and does not weigh as much as that plane.....but just as much fun to fly, and you don't need a quarter mile long field to fly it, I fly mine in my back yard, and my neighbors think it is cool........and I was one of the first to register, when it was required, my drones all have the FAA number, my name and phone number on them.......and if I hear a plane in the area, I will land my drone, until I am sure they are clear......and my drone is always in my sight, and I have only been up to 400 feet one time, thought it was a bit to high for comfort, I cut that in half, and feel better ....I am flying a Q500 4K..........

 

[Ty Pilot]

Before the internet, global trade and online retail, if you wanted to fly a remote controlled airplane the only entry point was a local hobby store. From there you would be pointed in the direction of the local RC club or clubs, which you would need to join if you wanted to learn to fly. There were serious rules and procedures that were in place and newbs could get help from the more experienced pilots and builders in order to advance - and this was face to face - not over the internet which; didn't exist. The FAA never wanted to regulate RC as long as the AMA was there to oversee the hobby by having a network of sanctioned RC clubs. In addition there were AMA sanctioned events and classifications for all the different disciplines of RC flight. If you wanted to get into competition you would find that at the upper level of these events the pilots were good - really good. Compared to how people learn to fly today; that was almost like getting military training to fly.

However by the year 2000 and even before, the hobby had seen the death of that paved path to becoming a professional, proficient and responsible pilot and builder. Thanks to cheap overseas labor the ARF industry was born and a critical tool (learning craftsmanship) was eliminated from the vast majority of RC pilots. Now, you could buy a cheap airplane, knowing little about how it works and go out and give it a shot. Hobby shops, the key to getting the right start were dying off in droves, new pilots learned just enough to stay airborne and were satisfied with it. The RC industry in America was diagnosed with terminal cancer and is all but gone today.

A couple years later - enter the multi rotor. Now you truly needed zero experience - again to simply get in the air and satisfy that thirst to operate a flying machine. Now the hobby shop, the local club meetings and events, and the comradely of those days; has been replaced by forums like this. Now the barrier that kept newbs from doing crazy $#)* and drawing attention from regulators and the FAA, has vanished. This is where we are. Now, the few who recognize where this is going to lead if we don't get a handle on it ourselves somehow, are scrambling to do whatever they can to self-regulate and try to build back a system that brings new pilots in and gives them guidance and direction. But the hoards of new "Drone Pilots" is overwhelming.

 

[NRRTRAINS]

as the makers of new drowns and the technology in them gets better and better a new buyer will walk into a store , pluck down what ever the cost of the unit he sees and wants , and just fly without knowing what he or she should know about the rules and regulations of drones . out of 100 % of drone pilots maybe 2% are the ones that make it on the 5 o'clock news for all the wrong reasons .

 

[notrude]

Well, I will share an opinion on this. I think when a manufacturer knowingly manufactures an unbelievably complicated product under the hood and yet, externally, is dumbed down to the point where anyone can use it, then the manufacturer takes on extra liability due to the fact that they're taking on functions which are out of the operators control. Case in point, preventing arming the motors when in a flight restricted area. One point in the article was the drone pilot had a tablet without a cellular link so current flight data could only be gathered via WiFi. Ok, so how do you fix this? Maybe you prevent the motors from arming unless flight data is current. DJI does this with firmware updates (which I personally hate) but maybe making sure flight data is current and stored offline in the drone as well as ensuring the GPS almanac is current and current calibrations have been performed before allowing arming of the motors isn't such a bad idea.

I know the experienced among us hate the thought of more restrictions, and some have signed waivers to have them lifted via firmware which is fine. But for those who are inexperienced enough to not even realize an exemption is possible, maybe, just maybe, the drone should be prevented from flying unless certain conditions have been met.

This is just an opinion, but I'm trying to think of ideas which will protect our hobby and businesses so we can continue to enjoy the freedoms we do have before the ill informed and inexperienced, bring the heavy hand of restrictions down upon us and potentially kill our fun for good.

You could say, though lightly, DJI has taken steps in this direction by adding a quiz to the DJI Go up theat requieres you to take it before the app opens. Yes it's a bit lame for those that know the answers but for those that don't know the rules or choose to ignore them, are reminded of them before their first flight.