Breeze batteries draining (too) fast

[Locksley]

Greetings.

I've started flying my brand new breeze (finally got the wifi working), but I've noticed the breeze flying time is too short (even shorter than it should).

I mean, I already knew when I purchased it that the Breeze autonomy was 10'-12' at best, for avoid draining the batteries too much.

Nevertheless, now after a full battery charge, my breeze can fly 2 minutes at most. Battery marker starts at 100%, and as soon as I start flying, it begins to make a dive, and after about 2 minutes it's down to 30%.
At first I though I could be a defective battery, but I tried after charging the other one (I've got the "two batteries" pack), and result is the same.

It does not seem a short circuit, as having the breeze on, connected to the phone and taking photos or videos without activating the propellers does not make a significant dent to the battery charge even after a long time.

I'm new to the Drone/RC world, so any idea is more than welcome.

Maybe the LiPo batteries need a few charge-discharge cycles to get "in shape"? Or maybe there is something wrong with the breeze propellers or circuitry that could be making the batteries drain faster than intended?

Regards

Jorge

 

[Scott_in_Colorado]

Your best bet would be to measure the battery voltage after the charger indicates full charge (green solid light) - 2 outer pins on the battery; should be about 3X4 volts = 12+ volts. If not 12+v measure each cell looking for 4+volts.

You don’t see a blue light on the charger do you? (Bad).

You DO NOT want to overcharge LiPo (or any other battery).

Two possible issues, neither good. If the charger indicates a solid green light and you only get 2-3 minutes you are overcharging 2 batteries- stop right away! You need a voltmeter to diagnose. You can find on Amazon for about $10, or perhaps someone you know has one? The other possibility is that the charger is defective (I had a defective one and returned). Again, stop charging.

Don’t mess with LiPo batteries - a real fire danger exists. Check YouTube.

I doubt the load from the props or other would cause that much battery drain - the ESC’s would fry or shut down from overload.

 

[Locksley]

Hi Scott. Thx for the answer.

Charging cycle is, afaik, normal. First the charger blinks green while standby, turns blinking red when I plug the breeze batteries; after a while, it starts blinking red-green alternatively (balance charge for what I've read), then finally it turns solid green (charge complete). I do not see blue lights in the charger during the cycle.

I've just ordered a voltimeter, I will test the batteries as soon as it arrives and post my findings, so you can hopefully pinpoint the issue more accurately. I won't charge the batteries again until I can test them.

Regards, and thanks again

Jorge

Ps. Just out of curiosty. How could the batteries become 'overcharged'? (defective charger I assume?).
Also, why does an overcharged LiPo battery drain so much faster? I understand this could happen with an 'undercharged' one, but the other way around?

 

[Scott_in_Colorado]

That’s a good plan. Do the batteries come off the charger warm to hot? Should not be. If so that would indicate overcharging. Just another thought.

 

[DoomMeister]

Jorge,

Has the flight time been that low from the start?

Are you flying at high altitude 8000 feet MSL or more?

I would like to see your flight log data to see if it shows anything about the battery drain. Use this thread Guide to Analyzing Breeze Cam FlightLogs - Your Data is Needed to learn how to get the flight logs. Then go to the folder where you copied them to the computer and zip them then add “.txt” to the end of the zip file. You can then use the Upload a File button at the bottom of the reply area to upload to the forum.

 

[airborne]

Some info regarding LiPo batteries: Most chargers are set to stop charging at 4.2 Volt per cell. A LiPo is considered discharged completely when it drops below 3.6 Volts under load. For the Breeze's battery it would mean 12.6 V is fully charged and 10.8 V is "empty". The individual cells in a batterypack should not differ by more than 0.3 V max.

The time for charging the Breeze's batteries should be between 50 to 80 minute with the stock charger depending how much it was discharged. If balancing (red-green alternating) starts very early this could be an indicator of a not so good battery. Balancing should be less than 15 minutes.

Beware of snake-oil: There is no known way to resuscitate a defective LiPo battery. Nevertheless there are some very good aftermarket chargers. At the cost of doubling or even tripling the times for charging they allow you to reduce the charging current. This is the only known way to prolong the lifetime of a LiPo. Another good method to enhance the lifespan of LiPos would be to store them at approx. 50% charge when you plan to not to fly for a week. It is always a good practice to charge to 100% only immediately before you fly.

 

[Locksley]

That’s a good plan. Do the batteries come off the charger warm to hot? Should not be. If so that would indicate overcharging. Just another thought.

Hi Scott. Batteries didn't get any hot while charging. I've read about the 'dangers' of LiPo batteries, and I've monitored them closely during this first charges.

They only got a bit warm when I took them off the drone after flying it.

J.

 

[Locksley]

Jorge,

Has the flight time been that low from the start?

Are you flying at high altitude 8000 feet MSL or more?

I would like to see your flight log data to see if it shows anything about the battery drain. Use this thread Guide to Analyzing Breeze Cam FlightLogs - Your Data is Needed to learn how to get the flight logs. Then go to the folder where you copied them to the computer and zip them then add “.txt” to the end of the zip file. You can then use the Upload a File button at the bottom of the reply area to upload to the forum.

Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

I've only started flying yesterday with the drone, so this "short flight time" has been indeed from the start

I'm in Madrid, Spain, in a flat region, so I'm about 670 meters above sea level, thats about 2200 feet.

Attached to this post should go the flight logs (hopefully I managed to do it correctly).

Again, thank you very much for your time, guys. You rock!

J

 

[Locksley]

Some info regarding LiPo batteries: Most chargers are set to stop charging at 4.2 Volt per cell. A LiPo is considered discharged completely when it drops below 3.6 Volts under load. For the Breeze's battery it would mean 12.6 V is fully charged and 10.8 V is "empty". The individual cells in a batterypack should not differ by more than 0.3 V max.

I'm using the 'official' breeze charger, so I assume that it should handle all that (unless the charger is malfunctioning, ofc).

The time for charging the Breeze's batteries should be between 50 to 80 minute with the stock charger depending how much it was discharged. If balancing (red-green alternating) starts very early this could be an indicator of a not so good battery. Balancing should be less than 15 minutes.

I assume the batteries come in the box half charged (as the recomended long storage voltage is about 3.8v for what I've read, about 40% charge). My batteries took a bit less for the first full charge. Lets say 35-40 minutes. Balance charge phase was indeed about 10'-15' (didn't measure it, but should be around that time).

Regards

J

 

[Locksley]

One more strange thing I've noticed after one of the take offs (the last one or the second last one if I recall it correctly):

When the drone flies, the battery drains fast (just take of, turn around a bit, and thats it, landing back). Lets say from about 80% to 30-40% in a couple of minutes. Then, after landing and letting the drone rest, the battery is suddenly again up to 50-60%.
(not sure if it is normal behavior or not)

L

 

[DoomMeister]

One more strange thing I've noticed after one of the take offs (the last one if I recall it correctly): (not sure if it is normal behavior or not)

When the drone flies, the battery drains fast (just take of, turn around a bit, and thats it, landing back). Lets say from about 90% to 30-40% in a couple of minutes. Then, after landing and letting the drone rest, the battery is suddenly again up to 50-60%.

L

That is normal for the batteries. They are under load (current is being drawn from them) while flying. After landing and the motors stopped the current draw is considerably less and the voltage will rebound some giving a higher reading.

 

[DoomMeister]

Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

I've only started flying yesterday with the drone, so this "short flight time" has been indeed from the start

I'm in Madrid, Spain, in a flat region, so I'm about 670 meters above sea level, thats about 2200 feet.

Attached to this post should go the flight logs (hopefully I managed to do it correctly).

Again, thank you very much for your time, guys. You rock!

J

I will get to your log files later today. I’m a little busy this morning.

 

[airborne]

To rule out a defective battery let me know the voltage oft each individual cell immediately after flight. two cells at nearly the same level and one considerably below would be indicative of a defect battery. Also a voltage reading of each cell of a fully charged battery would be interesting.

 

[Scott_in_Colorado]

You have lots of good help here. Just be cautious as you move forward. I agree, don’t waste time trying to rejuvenate a battery ( bring it back to good condition). Either the charger is defective, the battery is defective or the motors are causing too much load - but I doubt that is the problem as the ESC’s would blow.

All the above advise is good. Hope you figure it out.

 

[Locksley]

To rule out a defective battery let me know the voltage oft each individual cell immediately after flight. two cells at nearly the same level and one considerably below would be indicative of a defect battery. Also a voltage reading of each cell of a fully charged battery would be interesting.

Will do and post the results here, thx.

As per Scott advice a few messages above, I've ordered from Amazon a voltimeter for measuring the battery outputs. As soon as it arrives (Saturday acording to Amazon tracking), I will take both measures (a fully loaded battery with each individual cell, and then again after using it in the Breeze).

I found this image in another thread about the batteries:
https://yuneecpilots.com/media/3d64136f-0d6e-4299-a8c9-f576ce7bb440.694/

I will use that diagram for measuring each cell.

Regards

J

 

[DoomMeister]

Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

I've only started flying yesterday with the drone, so this "short flight time" has been indeed from the start

I'm in Madrid, Spain, in a flat region, so I'm about 670 meters above sea level, thats about 2200 feet.

Attached to this post should go the flight logs (hopefully I managed to do it correctly).

Again, thank you very much for your time, guys. You rock!

J

Jorge,

Here is what I got from your flight logs.

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 11:09:23 until 11:16:29 elapsed time of 00:07:07 stayed on the ground for entire log
Battery level went from 97% to 76%, GPS satellites are low at 8 or 9

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 11:17:16 until 11:18:34 elapsed time of 00:01:18 stayed on the ground for entire log
Battery level went from 75% to 74%, GPS satellites are low at 7 to 9

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 13:01:00 until 13:04:25 elapsed time of 00:03:25 stayed on the ground for entire log
Battery level went from 87% to 84%, GPS satellites are low at 7 to 10

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 13:51:21 until 13:55:46 elapsed time of 00:04:25 entered Pilot (no GPS) at 13:54:45 and landed
at 13:55:39 total air time of 00:00:54, Battery level went from 76% to 54%, max alt. of 1.0 meters

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 14:13:35 until 14:15:18 elapsed time of 00:01:43 entered Pilot (no GPS) at 14:13:43 and landed
at 14:15:09 total air time of 00:01:26, Battery level went from 77% to 53%, max alt. of 1.5 meters

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 17:41:46 until 17:46:23 elapsed time of 00:04:37 entered Pilot (no GPS) at 17:42:40 and landed
at 17:43:21 total air time of 00:00:41, Battery level went from 71% to 50%, max alt. of 1.0 meters

It looks like you are indoors as you are getting very poor GPS reception. If you charged the batteries between flights you must be having trouble with the charger. Note the starting battery levels. As Scott and airborne have said, getting voltage readings will help to analyze the problem better. Keep us up to date.

 

[Locksley]

Jorge,

Here is what I got from your flight logs.

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 11:09:23 until 11:16:29 elapsed time of 00:07:07 stayed on the ground for entire log
Battery level went from 97% to 76%, GPS satellites are low at 8 or 9

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 11:17:16 until 11:18:34 elapsed time of 00:01:18 stayed on the ground for entire log
Battery level went from 75% to 74%, GPS satellites are low at 7 to 9

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 13:01:00 until 13:04:25 elapsed time of 00:03:25 stayed on the ground for entire log
Battery level went from 87% to 84%, GPS satellites are low at 7 to 10

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 13:51:21 until 13:55:46 elapsed time of 00:04:25 entered Pilot (no GPS) at 13:54:45 and landed
at 13:55:39 total air time of 00:00:54, Battery level went from 76% to 54%, max alt. of 1.0 meters

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 14:13:35 until 14:15:18 elapsed time of 00:01:43 entered Pilot (no GPS) at 14:13:43 and landed
at 14:15:09 total air time of 00:01:26, Battery level went from 77% to 53%, max alt. of 1.5 meters

FlightLog 2018/05/01 @ 17:41:46 until 17:46:23 elapsed time of 00:04:37 entered Pilot (no GPS) at 17:42:40 and landed
at 17:43:21 total air time of 00:00:41, Battery level went from 71% to 50%, max alt. of 1.0 meters

It looks like you are indoors as you are getting very poor GPS reception. If you charged the batteries between flights you must be having trouble with the charger. Note the starting battery levels. As Scott and airborne have said, getting voltage readings will help to analyze the problem better. Keep us up to date.

Hi. Thanks for that!
Yes, all tests were done indoor, thats why the poor GPS reception. I disabled GPS before all the actual flights though.

Nevertheless, something is not right here because I made four take offs (three around noon time, one during the afternoon/evening, all of them short, moving the drone around just a couple of meters and rotating it around).
It seems one log is missing from the time period around noon (I've double checked it now, and I've included all the files from the Cam App in my zip file, so it could be possible that the Breeze Cap App dind't save one of the logs?).

Also, two of the flights ended with the battery at about 30% (at least according to the Breeze Cam app), one made me recharge the battery as soon as I felt it cooled down, and the other one it "spontaneously" recovered after a few minutes back from about 30% to 50% (as posted in Breeze batteries draining (too) fast )

I'm waiting now for the voltimeter to check the batteries and the cells before attempting anything else. I'll report back as soon as I get it.

Regards (and again, thank you very much for your help)

J

 

[DoomMeister]

You are probably right that the Breeze Cam app is not recording all flights. Do yourself a favor and keep a written log of your flights, and shoot at least a short video or a couple pictures each time you put the Breeze in the air. Everyone that has bothered to look at their FlightLog data has found that Breeze Cam is missing flights. If you have the Controller, you’ll find that even if a log is generated it will stop as soon as you enter the Controller Task in Breeze Cam.

The reason for the written log and videos while airborne, are for proof to Yuneec that Breeze Cam is faulty in the event the Breeze crashes and there is no log for that flight.

 

[Locksley]

Hello back.

I've finally received the voltimeter, and I've just charged the Breeze batteries.

After the full charging cycle, the readings are this:

Battery 1 -> Overall: 12.68v / Cell 1: 4.23v / Cell 2: 4.22v / Cell 3: 4.22v
Battery 2 -> Overall: 12.66v / Cell 1: 4.22v / Cell 2: 4.21v / Cell 3: 4.22v

Readings seems Ok for what i've read. Maybe a little bit too high (about 0.02v overcharge per cell, as cells are supposed to be charged to 4.2 only), but all three are balanced. Maybe the extra charge can give them a slightly lower lifespan in the long run, but afaik it should no make the Breeze deplete the juice faster than usual.

I'm going to make now a couple of test flights, and will post again the results once the batteries are down.

Regards

Jorge

 

[Locksley]

Well...

I'm a bit embarrased to say this, but... things seems almost normal now... ¿?¿?¿?¿?

I've just made a 6 minute flight (log attached), and battery just dropped from 100% to 45% during flight, which is, I think, more or less what is expected.
In fact, after letting the battery rest a bit, it went back to 50% or so, and after taking it out for voltage measures the readings were:

Overall: 11.64v / Cell 1: 3.89v / Cell 2: 3.88v / Cell 3: 3.88v

Again, pretty satisfactory as the cells are perfectly balanced.


Will try the same with the other battery just in case, but seems that, whatever happened during the first flights, it's gone now.

I've been researching a bit around, and it seems that some LIPO manufacturers add some kind of chemical agent to the battery cells for keeping them healthy during long term storage, which can shorten the charge of the batteries during the first 2-3 charge/discharge cycles while the preserving agent wears out:
New Lipo: do you Repeat Charge / Discharge a few times before use? | IntoFPV Forum
Maybe this is what happened to my Breeze.


Thank you very much to all of you for your help!


Jorge