Chroma Blade motors...

[Helio]

Greetings from Ecuador friends.
I have a question:
What would be the consequences of exchanging all the original 780KV Chroma motors for 935KV ones, or at least one of them?
I appreciate your help.

 

[DoomMeister]

If you change to a different motor all four must be changed to that type.

The issue with changing to a different motor is that you have no access to PID parameters to balance the acceleration/deceleration and current draw between the ESC’s and motors.

 

[Helio]

If you change to a different motor all four must be changed to that type.

The issue with changing to a different motor is that you have no access to PID parameters to balance the acceleration/deceleration and current draw between the ESC’s and motors.

Thank you very much for the quick observation.
What are PID parameters and how do I access them?

 

[DoomMeister]

You cannot access the PID (Proportional Integral Differential controls) for the Blade Chroma. The values are set in the firmware for the ESC/motor/propeller combination used on the aircraft.

Those that build their own quads use a generic controller and have software to fine tune the values when they make changes. Very few “ready to fly” drones allow access to those functions as even small changes can have a major effect on handling, flight characteristics, and battery life.

 

[WTFDproject]

Greetings from Ecuador friends.

Welcome to the Forum @Helio . It is good to see you here, my friend. I think @DoomMeister and others may be able to discuss this issue with greater knowledge.
You may also benefit by describing the crash, the repairs, and what you saw when you tried to restart the motor.

 

[Helio]

You cannot access the PID (Proportional Integral Differential controls) for the Blade Chroma. The values are set in the firmware for the ESC/motor/propeller combination used on the aircraft.

Those that build their own quads use a generic controller and have software to fine tune the values when they make changes. Very few “ready to fly” drones allow access to those functions as even small changes can have a major effect on handling, flight characteristics, and battery life.

Thanks for the tip, my friend.
Regards.

 

[Helio]

Hello everyone.

I am going to return to this thread of the conversation since the reason for my initial consultation was because my Chroma Blade suffered a fall. So I will relate the events from the moment before the fall until today, so that you will be kind enough to help me establish the causes of the failure:

1. Drone hovering and stable at about 9 meters high.
2. Unexpected fall (I was not looking at the drone at the event).
3. Inspection: broken motor arm 4, broken gimbal bracket, bent camera support arm and broken leg base.
4. At home I tested the motors again without the propellers and they worked "normally", as well as the acquisition of the GPS signal.
5. Repair of broken parts.
6. I was able to find out (with the help of my friend @WTFDproject) that engine 3 failed, using the flight log.
7. First attempt to retest the drone in flight (after calibrating the compass and accelerometer). Engine 3 fails to start and propeller loosens, engines stop, and LEDs blink white.
8. Second attempt: the same situation.
9. Third try: Engine 3 seems to be working steadily, I accelerate to lift it up, and the propeller detaches and flies off. Engines shut down and LEDs blink white again. I notice that motor 3 is overheated.
10. Fourth attempt (error): Engine 3 fails again, the propeller loosens once more and smoke begins to come out of it. The engines shut down and the LEDs blink white again.
11. No more attempts hehe. The drone now in quarantine.

Questions: engine failure? ESC failure? failure of both? pilot failure?

I appreciate your responses.
Greetings.

 

[DoomMeister]

The propeller coming loose after motor start suggests that the motor was turning the wrong direction after the crash. The motor spinning should cause the propeller to tighten up on the shaft.

 

[Pier2162]

If smoke comes from the motor, the motor is burnt and unusable.
The first crash may have been caused either by the esc failure or by a problem at the motor, not easy to be sure which of them.
In any case, smoke means a short circuit in the coils, so motor is the first suspect.
Loosing of propeller can be caused too by lack of the small o-ring that is on the motor shaft, if motor stops immediately and o-ring was missing, loose of propeller is highly probable.
My suggestion is to replace the motor, checking connections between it and esc, and connect copter to GUI for esc's check and motor spinning.

 

[Helio]

The propeller coming loose after motor start suggests that the motor was turning the wrong direction after the crash. The motor spinning should cause the propeller to tighten up on the shaft.

That's what I assumed. Does that imply ESC failure?
Where is the ESC located, on the main board?

 

[Helio]

Thank you for your response.
The O-ring is there.
Yesterday I disassembled the motor, tried to separate the bell from the stator but they are firmly attached. Any ideas on how to do it correctly?
I have no idea where the ESC is, I assume it is located on the main board. Is there a diagram of the board available for users?
I would like to know if the fault would also be in the ESC so as not to import motor 3 unnecessarily.
Also, there is a free connector shown in the photo. I don't know its function.
Greetings from Ecuador.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

If smoke comes from the motor, the motor is burnt and unusable.
The first crash may have been caused either by the esc failure or by a problem at the motor, not easy to be sure which of them.
In any case, smoke means a short circuit in the coils, so motor is the first suspect.
Loosing of propeller can be caused too by lack of the small o-ring that is on the motor shaft, if motor stops immediately and o-ring was missing, loose of propeller is highly probable.
My suggestion is to replace the motor, checking connections between it and esc, and connect copter to GUI for esc's check and motor spinning.

 

[Pier2162]

Hi Helio.
ESCs are located on the main board on the IMU side, you can see them on opposite side of motor connectors.
Unfortunately there is no any diagram for users, and in case one ESC is damaged you must replace the whole main board.
The free connector is for one of the two receivers the Chroma can manage: ST10+ receiver or Spektrum receiver.
The motor rotor can be separate from stator plate removing the small Seger ring that is on the shaft in the center of the base (see attached picture).
Be careful don't lose the spacers that are on the shaft (if present), these small washers are needed to calibrate the gap between rotor and stator.

 

[Helio]

Hi Helio.
ESCs are located on the main board on the IMU side, you can see them on opposite side of motor connectors.
Unfortunately there is no any diagram for users, and in case one ESC is damaged you must replace the whole main board.
The free connector is for one of the two receivers the Chroma can manage: ST10+ receiver or Spektrum receiver.
The motor rotor can be separate from stator plate removing the small Seger ring that is on the shaft in the center of the base (see attached picture).
Be careful don't lose the spacers that are on the shaft (if present), these small washers are needed to calibrate the gap between rotor and stator.
View attachment 26934

I have already done it, I have already removed the insurance. Still the part does not come out. I don't know what the additional difficulty is. In some video I saw that they applied heat to it. Is it advisable?
Well, what I am trying to do is to rewind the stator, as I saw in a video.
I will also have to remove the main board to try to find the famous ESC and visually check its condition. If I can establish that it's burnt, or something like that, I'm afraid my Chroma Blade will be left for the museum hehe.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[WTFDproject]

I would like to know if the fault would also be in the ESC so as not to import motor 3 unnecessarily.

Rara vez sugiero cosas que no he probado, pero no tendré tiempo de probar esto hasta la noche o mañana.
La idea es mover el motor # 1 a la posición del motor # 3, y luego utilizar la GUI para asegurar que el motor se inicia normalmente y se ejecuta en la dirección correcta cuando es impulsado por el ESC # 3.
Ni siquiera estoy seguro de que la GUI del Chroma haga funcionar los otros motores con uno de ellos desconectado. Puede que ya lo sepas. Si no es así, puedes averiguarlo desconectando el #3 para asegurarte de que el GUI probará el funcionamiento de los otros.
Parece que siempre hay un riesgo. En este caso, estás apostando por dañar otro motor. Si el ESC #3 fue el responsable de dañar el motor #3, también dañará el motor #1.
Intentaré probar el método esta noche, pero será una simple prueba para ver si los motores funcionan con uno que falta. La única placa Chroma Main que tengo disponible no tiene ningún ESC malo.
Creo que la GUI sólo hará funcionar los motores durante unos segundos de prueba. No te alarmes si el motor arranca normalmente, y luego se apaga después de unos segundos cuando en la GUI. Eso puede ser normal.
Traducción realizada con la versión gratuita del traductor www.DeepL.com/Translator

I seldom suggest things I have not tried, but I will not have time to try this until late tonight or tomorrow.
The idea is to move motor #1 to the Motor #3 position, and then use the GUI to ensure the motor starts normally and runs in the correct direction when driven by the #3 ESC.
I am not even certain the Chroma GUI will run the other motors with one motor disconnected. You may already know. If not, you can find out by disconnecting the #3 to ensure the GUI will test run the others.
There seems always to be a risk. In this case, you are gambling on damaging another motor. If the #3 ESC was responsible for the damage to #3 motor, it will also damage the #1 motor.
I will try to test the method tonight, but it will be a simple test to see if the motors will run with one missing. The only Chroma Main board I have available does not have any bad ESCs.
I think the GUI will only run the motors for a few seconds of test. Don't be alarmed if the motor starts normally, then shuts down after a few seconds when on the GUI. That may be normal.

 

[WTFDproject]

I have already done it, I have already removed the insurance. Still the part does not come out. I don't know what the additional difficulty is. In some video I saw that they applied heat to it. Is it advisable?
Well, what I am trying to do is to rewind the stator, as I saw in a video.
I will also have to remove the main board to try to find the famous ESC and visually check its condition. If I can establish that it's burnt, or something like that, I'm afraid my Chroma Blade will be left for the museum hehe.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

No he desmontado un motor Chroma. El anexo 49 (Desmontaje del motor Q500) de Way To Fix Drones project puede ser útil.
De nuevo, no he desmontado un motor Chroma. Pero los motores similares de otros modelos tienen dos cosas que suelen impedir que el eje salga.
1.) Hay espaciadores y arandelas debajo del circlip. Son difíciles de ver, y quedan atrapados en la ranura del circlip si no se retiran antes de sacar el eje.
2.) Los motores utilizan imanes excepcionalmente fuertes. Son tan fuertes que puede parecer que todavía están sujetos por algo sólido. Pero si se eliminan todas las demás interferencias, el eje saldrá si se tira de él con suficiente fuerza. No es buena idea utilizar herramientas por miedo a que se dañe.


I have not disassembled a Chroma motor. Attachment 49 (Disassembly of the Q500 motor) from Way To Fix Drones project may be helpful.
Again, I have not disassembled a Chroma motor. But similar motors of other models have two things that usually prevent the shaft from coming out.
1.) There are spacers and washers under the circlip. They are hard to see, and get caught in the circlip groove if not removed before pulling the shaft out.
2.) The motors use exceptionally strong magnets. They are so strong that they may appear to still be held by something solid. But if all other interference is removed, the shaft will come out if pulled hard enough. It is not a good idea to use tools for fear of damage.

 

[Helio]

Rara vez sugiero cosas que no he probado, pero no tendré tiempo de probar esto hasta la noche o mañana.
La idea es mover el motor # 1 a la posición del motor # 3, y luego utilizar la GUI para asegurar que el motor se inicia normalmente y se ejecuta en la dirección correcta cuando es impulsado por el ESC # 3.
Ni siquiera estoy seguro de que la GUI del Chroma haga funcionar los otros motores con uno de ellos desconectado. Puede que ya lo sepas. Si no es así, puedes averiguarlo desconectando el #3 para asegurarte de que el GUI probará el funcionamiento de los otros.
Parece que siempre hay un riesgo. En este caso, estás apostando por dañar otro motor. Si el ESC #3 fue el responsable de dañar el motor #3, también dañará el motor #1.
Intentaré probar el método esta noche, pero será una simple prueba para ver si los motores funcionan con uno que falta. La única placa Chroma Main que tengo disponible no tiene ningún ESC malo.
Creo que la GUI sólo hará funcionar los motores durante unos segundos de prueba. No te alarmes si el motor arranca normalmente, y luego se apaga después de unos segundos cuando en la GUI. Eso puede ser normal.
Traducción realizada con la versión gratuita del traductor www.DeepL.com/Translator

I seldom suggest things I have not tried, but I will not have time to try this until late tonight or tomorrow.
The idea is to move motor #1 to the Motor #3 position, and then use the GUI to ensure the motor starts normally and runs in the correct direction when driven by the #3 ESC.
I am not even certain the Chroma GUI will run the other motors with one motor disconnected. You may already know. If not, you can find out by disconnecting the #3 to ensure the GUI will test run the others.
There seems always to be a risk. In this case, you are gambling on damaging another motor. If the #3 ESC was responsible for the damage to #3 motor, it will also damage the #1 motor.
I will try to test the method tonight, but it will be a simple test to see if the motors will run with one missing. The only Chroma Main board I have available does not have any bad ESCs.
I think the GUI will only run the motors for a few seconds of test. Don't be alarmed if the motor starts normally, then shuts down after a few seconds when on the GUI. That may be normal.

Hello my friend.
Good idea to do that with the GUI taking advantage that I have disassembled motor 3. I will do it tonight.
And then I will try to do it by changing motor 1 to position 3.
I will report the results.
Regards.

 

[Helio]

No he desmontado un motor Chroma. El anexo 49 (Desmontaje del motor Q500) de Way To Fix Drones project puede ser útil.
De nuevo, no he desmontado un motor Chroma. Pero los motores similares de otros modelos tienen dos cosas que suelen impedir que el eje salga.
1.) Hay espaciadores y arandelas debajo del circlip. Son difíciles de ver, y quedan atrapados en la ranura del circlip si no se retiran antes de sacar el eje.
2.) Los motores utilizan imanes excepcionalmente fuertes. Son tan fuertes que puede parecer que todavía están sujetos por algo sólido. Pero si se eliminan todas las demás interferencias, el eje saldrá si se tira de él con suficiente fuerza. No es buena idea utilizar herramientas por miedo a que se dañe.


I have not disassembled a Chroma motor. Attachment 49 (Disassembly of the Q500 motor) from Way To Fix Drones project may be helpful.
Again, I have not disassembled a Chroma motor. But similar motors of other models have two things that usually prevent the shaft from coming out.
1.) There are spacers and washers under the circlip. They are hard to see, and get caught in the circlip groove if not removed before pulling the shaft out.
2.) The motors use exceptionally strong magnets. They are so strong that they may appear to still be held by something solid. But if all other interference is removed, the shaft will come out if pulled hard enough. It is not a good idea to use tools for fear of damage.

I have already removed the shaft locks. It does not come out.
I am also afraid of damaging the parts if I use tools.
Is there a possibility that when the motor overheated something melted inside and prevented the stator and bell from separating?

 

[WTFDproject]

Is there a possibility that when the motor overheated something melted inside and prevented the stator and bell from separating?

Es posible, pero no es seguro.
¿Gira el motor libremente con la mano? Si el motor gira, dudo que haya algo de la avería que esté causando el problema.

It is possible, but not certain.
Does the motor turn freely by hand? If the motor turns, I doubt there is something from the failure that is causing the problem.

 

[Pier2162]

I think magnets keeps in position the rotor.
You could try putting two steel bars between the stator base and a vice, then beat the rotor shaft with a pin punch and a hammer. All while being careful not to touch the coils.
Or rather build a metal plate to screw on the motor...
Of course you have to be 100% sure that there is nothing else that prevents the shaft from sliding into the bearing.

Creo que los imanes mantienen en posición el rotor.
Puede intentar colocar dos barras de acero entre la base del estator y un vicio, luego golpear el eje del rotor con un punzón de alfiler y un martillo. Todo teniendo cuidado de no tocar las bobinas.
O más bien construir una placa de metal para atornillar el motor ...
Por supuesto, debe estar 100% seguro de que no hay nada más que evite que el eje se deslice hacia el rodamiento.

 

[WTFDproject]

Hello my friend.
Good idea to do that with the GUI taking advantage that I have disassembled motor 3. I will do it tonight.
And then I will try to do it by changing motor 1 to position 3.
I will report the results.
Regards.

He decidido tomarme el tiempo para probarlo. Puede que tengas que venir a protegerme de la ira de mi mujer, que no está muy contenta conmigo ahora.
El GUI funciona bien con el motor desenchufado. El motor no se ha parado después de unos segundos. Lo dejé funcionar durante un rato.
Había desenchufado el Motor #1. Había suficiente cable disponible para conectar el Motor #4 al ESC del Motor #1. Eso también funcionó sin problema. El motor #4 funciona en sentido contrario a las agujas del reloj cuando se conecta normalmente al ESC #4. Funcionó en el sentido de las agujas del reloj (como se esperaba) cuando se conectó al ESC #1.

I decided to take the time to try it. You may need to come protect me from the wrath of my wife, who is not very happy with me now.
The GUI works fine with a motor unplugged. There was no stopping of the motor after a few seconds. I let it run for awhile.
I had unplugged Motor #1. There was enough wire available to connect Motor #4 to the Motor #1 ESC. That also worked without problem. Motor #4 runs counter clockwise when normally connected to ESC #4. It ran clockwise (as expected) when connected to ESC #1.