E90 video jello problem

[rolyexpress]

Hi guys,

I'm having jello on the video recordings of my E90 camera. A month ago I compared my mapping mission's raw images from H520G to my P4P. Wow, the E90 had a lot less detail / softer features, but why? I had previously noticed a weird shake when recording cinematic videos from the E90 but didn't pursue it at the time. I feel like these two problems are related, bad image quality while mapping and video jello.

Troubleshooting:
1) I replaced a gimbal vibration gummy that looked punctured compared to the others.
2) I compared my video to other sample E90 videos from YouTube, mine seemed a lot worse
3) I checked for vibrations on each motor and they all seemed about the same, it doesn't seemed like "unbalanced props". I might end up balancing all props. I have not crashed or nicked any propellers.
4) Cleaned lens
5) All firmware is up to date

Is this sample video "jelly" effect normal? It's more noticeable when watched on a big screen.
Sample video: OneDrive link

Rubber dampers, right one was busted and replaced with left:


Firmware:

 

[Mrgs1]

There is a fix going around the forum, which involves filling the dampers with foam, there are a few threads on here about it, it seems a successful solution to jello and leaking dampers for some.

 

[DoomMeister]

If replacing dampeners does not alleviate the problem and you are experiencing a vibration in the gimbal of the E90, you can try this E90 Fix for Gimbal Vibration.

From your sample video I would guess your troubles lie with the dampeners. Also abrupt panning can cause some jello that will dissipate shortly after the fast pan ceases.

 

[Steve Carr]

I suspect it is partially related to wind either from flying into or sideways in the wind. I've seen it happen a number of times but never see it when flying downwind.

However, it is much worse in your video and may be a gimbal vibration as DoomMeister mentions above.

I downloaded and reviewed your video. It is NOT typical of what you should expect from the E90/C23 camera. Most certainly it is "fuzzy". I am correct in assuming this clip was straight from the camera or did you use an editor to render the clip?

Can you take another short flight and record at 3840x2160 @25fps ? I'd very much like to see the comparison.

 

[rolyexpress]

I suspect it is partially related to wind either from flying into or sideways in the wind. I've seen it happen a number of times but never see it when flying downwind.

However, it is much worse in your video and may be a gimbal vibration as DoomMeister mentions above.

I downloaded and reviewed your video. It is NOT typical of what you should expect from the E90/C23 camera. Most certainly it is "fuzzy". I am correct in assuming this clip was straight from the camera or did you use an editor to render the clip?

Can you take another short flight and record at 3840x2160 @25fps ? I'd very much like to see the comparison.

I've been doing more reading and thought that prop balancing would be the next necessary step. I am flying in about 15mph (ground speed) winds here. I just don't see nearly as much jello from my P4P when flying in similar winds/conditions.

This is a raw clip, no editing.

I'll continue my testing and respond with a 25fps video later today.

Thanks to everyone for your replies in trying to resolve this issue!

 

[Steve Carr]

Do you notice any buzzing or vibration on the E90?
Check the gimbal by "hand flying" in the house and see if the camera shows any signs of vibration during pitch and roll.

 

[rolyexpress]

Do you notice any buzzing or vibration on the E90?
Check the gimbal by "hand flying" in the house and see if the camera shows any signs of vibration during pitch and roll.

I did this as well and there was no obvious signs of anything wrong. I went ahead and balanced the props, I'm waiting on my E6000 silicone to cure for 24 hours before test flying.

 

[Steve Carr]

I'm waiting on my E6000 silicone to cure for 24 hours before test flying.

What are you using the silicone for?

 

[rolyexpress]

What are you using the silicone for?

It's an adhesive called e6000, I'm using it to balance the hub on the props

 

[arruntus]

I asked myself that too and looked for it but all I found was silicone in a tube ? I still use the old black insulating tape and I have propellers with it attached as from the first moment

 

[DCH]

If the Jello is not being caused by gimbal buzz, then I suggest you try this:
C23/E90 Gel Filled Damper Solution

A while back there were reports of Jello in the E90 and C23 cameras, both cameras use the jell filled dampers. I suspect that when a gel damper gets elongated and flattened like we often see, they loose some of their ability to act as suspension and support. Instead, they become elongated and flat like a noodle, and offer no resistance to pendulum movement, but hang there like a ribbon swinging back and forth. @Steve Carr and I came up with this concept and it works amazingly well. It provides excellent dampening, and robust support without ever elongating, or leaking. Of all the people who have tried this, no one has ever reported getting Jello.

 

[Sureshot]

Something often overlooked is the tip path plane of the props.
Even if the props are rotation balanced, if the tips don't spin at the same height, you will get a wobble vibration.

A quick way to test is to use the PC GUI, and hold each motor mount to feel for vibration as you power each blade, one at a time.
(I use two 2ft pieces of 2x4 lumber on the on the legs to keep from having an accidental indoor flight.)

 

[rolyexpress]

Can you take another short flight and record at 3840x2160 @25fps ?

Here is a flight with those specs: OneDrive link

 

[rolyexpress]

So updates after balacing the propellers: I was flying in windier conditions and only noticed worse video performance. Here is a video: OneDrive link

 

[rolyexpress]

If the Jello is not being caused by gimbal buzz, then I suggest you try this:
C23/E90 Gel Filled Damper Solution

A while back there were reports of Jello in the E90 and C23 cameras, both cameras use the jell filled dampers. I suspect that when a gel damper gets elongated and flattened like we often see, they loose some of their ability to act as suspension and support. Instead, they become elongated and flat like a noodle, and offer no resistance to pendulum movement, but hang there like a ribbon swinging back and forth. @Steve Carr and I came up with this concept and it works amazingly well. It provides excellent dampening, and robust support without ever elongating, or leaking. Of all the people who have tried this, no one has ever reported getting Jello.

I'm leaving this option as a last resort since it is more of a frankenstein method, although now that I've watched the video proof I am hard pressed, wow! that's smooth video. Any chance these can be found / ordered from somewhere with foam or a similar performing product?

 

[rolyexpress]

Something often overlooked is the tip path plane of the props.
Even if the props are rotation balanced, if the tips don't spin at the same height, you will get a wobble vibration.

A quick way to test is to use the PC GUI, and hold each motor mount to feel for vibration as you power each blade, one at a time.
(I use two 2ft pieces of 2x4 lumber on the on the legs to keep from having an accidental indoor flight.)

Although I have not tried this on a stand, or each individual motor, I have touched each motor while hovering in flight and have felt the same amount of vibration on each one, more or less. It's sort of hard to know what's really out of line without a good baseline. At some point I'll try it like you suggest. Thanks!

 

[Steve Carr]

@rolyexpress , I downloaded and reviewed your videos. It is difficult, at this point, to determine the cause. There are so many possibilities:
Dampers, Props, Camera Firmware, Camera Hardware, EMF interference.

Duplicating the problem in flight will not yield new clues. You will need to try to duplicate the problem when the camera is close enough to observe it. You might try holding the Plus in front of a high output fan and record video. If you cannot see or feel any vibration in the camera but still have jello in the recording, then it is caused by something in the camera or electrical influence.

I had asked previously if the camera is in warranty. If so, replacement is the best solution. If it is not, we can continue to help diagnose the cause.

 

[Steve Carr]

@rolyexpress, in addition to the question above regarding warranty status, did you install the gimbal fix firmware?

 

[rolyexpress]

Something often overlooked is the tip path plane of the props.
Even if the props are rotation balanced, if the tips don't spin at the same height, you will get a wobble vibration.

A quick way to test is to use the PC GUI, and hold each motor mount to feel for vibration as you power each blade, one at a time.
(I use two 2ft pieces of 2x4 lumber on the on the legs to keep from having an accidental indoor flight.)

Hello, I tried doing this from QGC and didn't see any motor controls tab like there is on ArduPilot Mission Planner. What software do you recommend? Will Mission Planner work for this? Thanks.

 

[rolyexpress]

@rolyexpress, in addition to the question above regarding warranty status, did you install the gimbal fix firmware?

Today I'll try hold the bird in front of a fan while it is powered on to see if gimbal shakes in a weird way. I have not installed the gimbal fix firmware. I do have warranty but they say "if it doesn't shake while it's stationary then it's likely not a hardware issue", which is rather dumb. I'll check out the firmware next. If that doesn't work then warranty it is.