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30ft altitude limit...with 5 miles.

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hey all,

Contacted cs cause my TH wouldn’t spin up and was getting a nfz error when trying to fly.

I was 3.7 miles from airport and made notifications to atc and a helipad near by.

Cs gave me a nfz waiver that restricts me to 30ft altitude, 5 miles from airport.

I am legally allowed to fly up to 400 ft with 5 miles of airports.

Now my DJI friends flies right next to me, by clicking a button....

What gives??? Any way around this?? Besides getting my 107 and not flying within 5 miles of an airport?
 
That is correct, the local or major airport can restrict flight, or impose an altitude limit with in their airspace.
You can contact Yuneec once you get your part 107, they will supply firmware to unlock the NFZ restriction.
You will still be required to report to a local airport if you are going to fly with in in their airspace.
 
According to DJI the only way they can do so is if their account has verified as having the certification needed to disable the NFZ.
Many of the restrictions for part 107 holders do not apply to hobbyists. The exception is the NFZ. Those are universal and require all drone pilots to notify the control tower of any flights within the NFZ. If your friends are flying without doing so, they are certainly violating the FAA regulations.

Yuneec's database only contains 166 major airports in the US which is a very small number. If you wish to see a detailed map of the height restrictions you can review this map: ArcGIS Web Application

DJI’s latest update allows verified drone users to bypass its No-Fly technology
 
What Steve references above is correct. Unfortunately you have just run up against the "political" side of software differences between drone manufacturers. That gets even more complicated as many have found and explored the means to "hack' DJI firmware code in order to circumvent performance and location restrictions that are built into new products. We should also remember that in order to make use of DJI's self unlock capabilities of stock system means that everything you do with your multirotor is being tracked and recorded by DJI for whatever purpose they desire. The other option of hacking their set up code means you immediately lose your warranty, will have problems with repairs should a hacked product be sent back for repairs, and could experience unknown and unintended consequences from any errors induced by altering the set up code. I'm not sure the benefit of being able to "unlock" the system through altering the code in order to fly near an airport is worth the multiple negatives associated with it.

As you've already found, Yuneec does provide a two level method of unlocking NFZ software with recreational and commercial waivers. The recreational version maintains the 30' height limit within 5 miles of a qualifying airport, as you've experienced, while the commercial version removes all restrictions. The Yuneec software cannot be hacked as is possible with some DJI products, and Yuneec installs zero NFZ restrictions in their commercial 520 and 920 platforms. Yuneec does not require a copy of a commercial certificate to qualify a buyer for their commercial products, something I find a bit odd. Although still having a 30' height limit may seem overly restrictive for a recreational waiver, from a legal standpoint it makes sense. There is no way for Yuneec to know that every holder of a recreational waiver is a law abiding or safety conscious person. In truth, not all are and have and will fly in places they should not with fully unlocked software. We have the opportunity to study and take the 107 test, where passage of the tests and obtaining the license assures the manufacturer the user is fully cognizant of laws, regulations, and airspace when they submit a commercial waiver request. Having a 107 license means you have no excuse if and when the law is broken or if the public safety is placed in jeopardy and generates a legal action. Having to submit a copy of their 107 license with the waiver request provides a "paper trail" for Yuneec to use in their defense should a commercial operator indulge in an activity that creates a situation where the FAA, NTSB, or other LEA becomes involved. Providing a 30' limit within 5 miles of an airport with the recreational waiver is a way of stating Yuneec recognizes the airport environment and provides a means to keep it reasonably sterile.

Ultimately it might be considered a pain in the a-- but lacking any other means to protect themselves from their customer's actions it's what we have to deal with. Some places are very high risk at any altitude and it can't be assumed that everyone understands that being allowed to fly at 400' and under does not mean it's safe to fly at all in such an area. Those that are commercial certified are presumed under the law to have that knowledge while a recreational flyer may not. My only suggestion for those that "need" to fly near an airport is to obtain a 107 license. The only people that need to fly near an airport are those that have been hired to obtain imagery in that area. Everyone else only "wants" to fly near an airport.
 
It’s more to the point of yuneec forcing the 30ft altitude on me than anything else. So DJI allows it pilots with a verified account to fly up to 1 mile from airport, but yuneec forces me to have a 107.

Steve, that map is interesting, why don’t the drone nanufactures just limit altitude based on that?

Also, no limit on the 520 & 920 with or with out 107...?

You all have very solid arguments, I am just venting because it is sort of ridiculous.

Thanks for all the info gents.
 
I’m not fully cognizant of how DJI “quailifies” operators to unlock the flight restrictions. I believe DJI requires operators to provide proof of commercial status before allowing a full unlock. As for allowing a full unlock outside 1 mile of an airport, there have been several YouTube videos that illustrate the folly of that, with one Mavic owner placing his aircraft at the same altitude as commercial passenger aircraft just to the side of arriving aircraft. I believe DJI does this as a means to generate government support in adopting their flight restriction and drone tracking software. Nothing DJI does is done without having multiple levels of commercially exploitable reasons.

I understand your consternation and need to vent, we don’t have consistency between manufacturers. In a way that’s not a bad thing but in others it generates confusion. The lack of public education and system descriptions contribute greatly to that confusion.
 
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According to DJI the only way they can do so is if their account has verified as having the certification needed to disable the NFZ.
Many of the restrictions for part 107 holders do not apply to hobbyists. The exception is the NFZ. Those are universal and require all drone pilots to notify the control tower of any flights within the NFZ. If your friends are flying without doing so, they are certainly violating the FAA regulations.

Yuneec's database only contains 166 major airports in the US which is a very small number. If you wish to see a detailed map of the height restrictions you can review this map: ArcGIS Web Application

DJI’s latest update allows verified drone users to bypass its No-Fly technology

That map is interesting! I live just over 3 miles from our local airport and when i click on my location, the info window pops up showing the altitude limit at 400 feet. If i click to a point about a half mile away to the west and closer to the airport, it shows the altitude at only 150 feet. The airport is a class D airport for wht it's worth.
 
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Mojo,

That makes sense since aircraft maybe descending to into the tiered airspace.

Who creates that ceiling ? The FAA? And if so, would the tower restrict you based on that map?

Tha ks for all the info !!
 
Yes the Tower would restrict you to that, unless you have special permission to do otherwise. There are reasons for NFZ's, just stay within the107 guidelines (and hobbyist are to follow these rules also) that is given then you don't have to sweat it out. Drive down the road outside of the parameters and enjoy flying.
 
I understand the importance of the nfz and how they are tiered despite my dumb question and comments !

I also appreciate the efforts of those sharing their knowledge.

So thanks again.

AH-1G,

What’s your experience with cobras?

I was an avi guy on the -1W
 
That map is interesting! I live just over 3 miles from our local airport and when i click on my location, the info window pops up showing the altitude limit at 400 feet. If i click to a point about a half mile away to the west and closer to the airport, it shows the altitude at only 150 feet. The airport is a class D airport for wht it's worth.

Those airspace/altitude maps have been generated through combing through a lot of data to establish the predominant areas of use and the general aircraft operating altitudes in those areas. They also incorporate altitudes and locations that align with published instrument approach and departure routes along with normal arrival, departure, and pattern altitudes used for full scale aircraft. A lot of work went into setting those maps up to make it faster and easier to provide operating clearance for sUAS. As a rule the ends of an airport are busier than the sides of an airport, with the ends having more need of control stretching out a longer distance. There are of course exceptions to that. Such altitude depictions are still being developed for a lot of other airports and being released as they are completed and approved.

Skidkid,

Controlled airspace classifications, altitudes and dimensions are the sole domain of the FAA. Once an airport has been designed the planning starts for the kind and size of the airspace that will be required for the type of operations that will be conducted. As requirements change the airspace can be changed in numerous ways to suit the needs. I don't know if you are familiar with the way charted airspace is depicted on maps but a resource that will allow people to see what they have around them is www.skyvector.com Going to that website allows the user to click the "Charts" icon that will bring up a map of the U.S. that's divided into sections. Clicking on the appropriate section brings up a VFR airspace map of your chosen area. The far left side of the chart provides a legend for users to decipher what all the colors, lines, and numbers mean.

Another free resource that everyone can use can be found at Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge
Downloading the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge provides a a vast amount of aviation information that's pretty much required reading for anyone with a desire to be a pilot. Although we pilot a manned aircraft we do have the ability to interact with them in numerous ways. The better we understand the standards they are trained to the better we can fit withing a system that was designed especially for them. It wasn't set up to service us so we have to adapt to the operations standards it was designed to serve. Matter of fact, 100% of the information people need to study to obtain Part 107 certification can be obtained (downloaded) for free at the FAA website. Why people spend hundreds of $$ for a study course is beyond me...
 
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That is correct, the local or major airport can restrict flight, or impose an altitude limit with in their airspace.
You can contact Yuneec once you get your part 107, they will supply firmware to unlock the NFZ restriction.
You will still be required to report to a local airport if you are going to fly with in in their airspace.

The first part is somewhat incomplete. It's true if you're inside the airspace - but note that not all airspace extends to the surface, or for 5 miles from the field. Class B and C airspace looks like an inverted wedding cake, and the further from the field, the higher the airspace floor. If inside the 5-mile range, but you're outside the airspace, it is not true. The to-the-surface airspace doesn't always reach 3.7mi from the field... I didn't see the OP give an exact location, or otherwise indicate that he's inside the airspace, just how far he was from it.

OP, you might want to get the VFR Sectional chart for your area and determine the airspace where you are...

See para 7 in the "Flying for Fun Under the Special Rule for Model Aircraft" section of the FAQ, at Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions. It says:

"Can an airport operator object to model aircraft flights near an airport?
Yes, an airport operator can object to the proposed use of a model aircraft within five miles of an airport if the proposed activity would endanger the safety of the airspace. However, the airport operator cannot prohibit or prevent the model aircraft operator from operating within five miles of the airport. Unsafe flying in spite of the objection of an airport operator may be evidence that the operator was endangering the safety of the National Airspace System. Additionally, the UAS operator must comply with any applicable airspace requirements."

Bottom line: yes, you have to advise. Yes, they can say they don't want you to. NO, they can NOT tell you that you cannot. Yes, if you fly anyway, and cause a problem, you're super-screwed, not just screwed. If you are actually inside their airspace (and it's to the surface at your location), THEN they can tell you no and it sticks [basic meaning of last sentence in FAQ para in context of this thread].

Example... I live under the pattern (and therefore inside the surface-2500 class C airspace) of a military airfield. I also volunteer at a local rescue squad, which has 2 nearby stations (one inside the 25/sfc airspace, the other beyond the airspace, though within 5 miles of the field). I call the tower to ASK to fly in my backyard. I've been told no only when the overlaying restricted area is active (it happens, but is rare and usually brief), and they always otherwise approve, as I do not exceed ~125' AGL (the height of some nearby trees) and they know my cell number and that I will land immediately if it rings. I also ASK to fly at the closer station, with the same results. At the farther station, I do not ask; I advise, and verify that the restricted area is not active.


There's a positive side-effect that most people don't realize about ATC clearance inside airspace. I was ... accosted by a local Sheriff Deputy recently while prepping to fly at the closer station - he misunderstood the rules and thought < 5 miles is no fly, period. I told the Dep that we are inside the base' airspace and I have their permission. I called the tower back and he found that if he hassled me further, THEY would file charges against him for usurping their authority over their airspace. Helps to work with controllers (I'm an ATC Systems Engineer). Civilian airfields may be iffy about enforcing their jurisdiction over other authorities regarding their airspace, but a military field is almost certain to do so. Knowing this now, I fly inside military airspace - with approval - whenever possible.
 
Hi guys.
 
I have tried many times to get permission from the local tower to fly my RC helicopters within the NFZ at under 100 feet. They either give me the runaround or the person is not available. So I fly anyway and have not had any problems yet.
There must be a way we as recreational fliers to go above the local tower operators to get permission when they ignore or even avoid a simple yes or no answer.
Pete.
 
I have tried many times to get permission from the local tower to fly my RC helicopters within the NFZ at under 100 feet. They either give me the runaround or the person is not available. So I fly anyway and have not had any problems yet.
There must be a way we as recreational fliers to go above the local tower operators to get permission when they ignore or even avoid a simple yes or no answer.
Pete.
In airspace or not? If not, change the tone of your calls from request to advisory. If "local tower" is a little regional thing, the airspace won't be all that big, and keep in mind that not all airspace is to the surface
 

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