Fire Service-Sar
- Thread starter SkidKid
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PatR
Premium Pilot
That's pretty much the people that got the first "hand's on" with the 520. Quite a bit of effort is being expended in demonstrating the 520 to fire, police, and SAR groups. The TH has been used by at least one state patrol agency, perhaps more.
Thanks Pat,
I know there are a few FD’s showing pictures with Yuneec products, but am having a hard time finding definitive agencies and contacts.
Seems like they are all DJI.
I spoke with CS and they mentioned San Bernadino, but were reluctant or weren’t aware of any others...
This is a pretty active forum so was hoping to land a hook...
I know there are a few FD’s showing pictures with Yuneec products, but am having a hard time finding definitive agencies and contacts.
Seems like they are all DJI.
I spoke with CS and they mentioned San Bernadino, but were reluctant or weren’t aware of any others...
This is a pretty active forum so was hoping to land a hook...
PatR
Premium Pilot
Nevada Highway Patrol is another.
DJI became very proactive in marketing to public agencies a couple years ago. They have also been actively engaged in back room meetings with the insurance industry, which is why all the recent disaster relief crews were provided aircraft performance requirements that only fit the performance parameters for a couple of DJI models. Inspire and Matrice were most desirable, P4 Pro was acceptable, while Mavic would only be acceptable in specific situations. Because Typhoon H is limited in upwards tilt to +15* instead of DJI's +20* I had to obtain specific approval before the H would be accepted for inspection work.
As much as I hate to say it, as a business that wants to grow DJI is doing it right. They are out of their office making the calls that promote business while everyone else is sitting back thinking people will come to them, or hoping they'll make buy decisions at a public expo, and that's not going to happen. Their budget process requires groundwork for a system purchase be initiated two years in advance of an order being placed. The networking to initiate a sales call has to get started before that. DJI even makes and markets a system tailor made to law enforcement needs while only custom and specialty design companies do similar. If you're an LEA of pretty much any size DJI will have someone out there to demonstrate the product, and train your crew if you choose to go with them. However, many of those same agencies are now taking a real hard look at things after the data collection expose'.
I know that Terrestrial Imaging is actively engaged in demonstrating the 520 and other systems to public agencies. I believe CarolinaDronz is as well. It all comes down to name recognition. DJI certainly has it and nobody, absolutely nobody, is putting even 1/10 of the effort DJI is into growing their brand or business. I'm definitely not a DJI fan but they do know how to run a business.
The real ***** I have is that companies with less market share will not listen to anyone outside of the management circles they participate within. By doing that they limit themselves to only the knowledge and information they already have. A closed mind will never open doors, and you cannot grow while remaining in your comfort zone.
DJI became very proactive in marketing to public agencies a couple years ago. They have also been actively engaged in back room meetings with the insurance industry, which is why all the recent disaster relief crews were provided aircraft performance requirements that only fit the performance parameters for a couple of DJI models. Inspire and Matrice were most desirable, P4 Pro was acceptable, while Mavic would only be acceptable in specific situations. Because Typhoon H is limited in upwards tilt to +15* instead of DJI's +20* I had to obtain specific approval before the H would be accepted for inspection work.
As much as I hate to say it, as a business that wants to grow DJI is doing it right. They are out of their office making the calls that promote business while everyone else is sitting back thinking people will come to them, or hoping they'll make buy decisions at a public expo, and that's not going to happen. Their budget process requires groundwork for a system purchase be initiated two years in advance of an order being placed. The networking to initiate a sales call has to get started before that. DJI even makes and markets a system tailor made to law enforcement needs while only custom and specialty design companies do similar. If you're an LEA of pretty much any size DJI will have someone out there to demonstrate the product, and train your crew if you choose to go with them. However, many of those same agencies are now taking a real hard look at things after the data collection expose'.
I know that Terrestrial Imaging is actively engaged in demonstrating the 520 and other systems to public agencies. I believe CarolinaDronz is as well. It all comes down to name recognition. DJI certainly has it and nobody, absolutely nobody, is putting even 1/10 of the effort DJI is into growing their brand or business. I'm definitely not a DJI fan but they do know how to run a business.
The real ***** I have is that companies with less market share will not listen to anyone outside of the management circles they participate within. By doing that they limit themselves to only the knowledge and information they already have. A closed mind will never open doors, and you cannot grow while remaining in your comfort zone.
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I think that SAR, News reporting and participation in Missing People missions etc. are very interesting but there is a "big challenge". You have to be able to be in the air in minutes... How do you do?
Always keep at least 3-4 fully charged batteries at home because it's not an option to say: "Please wait a coulple of hours for me, I have to charge my batteries!" What's your solution / idea?
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Keeping charged batteries is ok as long as you fly them off within a couple of days.
I agree with ParR marketing is key to success. This past year I worked with our local police department on a picnic event which also included the fire department, this gave me an opportunity introducing the H and it's capabilities.
Several weeks ago I was asked by the Director of Tourism of Seminole County to do some video and pics. (yes I got paid for this). This facility hosts national sporting events, 80 acres!
The Director was extremely pleased by the footage and pics now I'm his go to guy for sporting events. So slowly and small as I am, I'm making my way marketing the H. It's who you know that also helps you get to the powers to be (decision makers).
Another note, there have been times I have done freebies and this has helped me to get contracts. I'm sure there are many of you with similar stories, we are on our own to market the H and up against a giant DJI. So continue and be persistent!
I agree with ParR marketing is key to success. This past year I worked with our local police department on a picnic event which also included the fire department, this gave me an opportunity introducing the H and it's capabilities.
Several weeks ago I was asked by the Director of Tourism of Seminole County to do some video and pics. (yes I got paid for this). This facility hosts national sporting events, 80 acres!
The Director was extremely pleased by the footage and pics now I'm his go to guy for sporting events. So slowly and small as I am, I'm making my way marketing the H. It's who you know that also helps you get to the powers to be (decision makers).
Another note, there have been times I have done freebies and this has helped me to get contracts. I'm sure there are many of you with similar stories, we are on our own to market the H and up against a giant DJI. So continue and be persistent!
While I have not directly done one yet, last year I grabbed our local fire chief, took him out to a field that usually gets controlled burned every few years. I showed him the view I could offer of the fire compared to he could see from the ground. He was most impressed, and agreed to call me next time they have a burn off. Since that time the FAA has changed their rules and such, and for me to get the part 107, and the insurance, just was not economical for me to do for a maybe twice a year happening. Besides it is the main county fire Marshal I would really want to show off for.
For the SAR part. Because all of the Yuneec offerings lack a good zoom camera (10X or better), you would be limited to flying over open areas, soon as you add trees to the mix you will be too high in the air avoiding trees for the camera to help much. (CGO-ET may help out here) SAR work does not require the 4K quality you need for cinematography, You just want to be able to see if it is a person or a dog you are flying over.
I do think the FAA needs to be more relaxed in the requirements if you are doing any kind of aid to local Police, Fire, or Rescue. There are many people who would donate their time and equipment in the aid of first responders. Part 107 is good to keep you from flying into manned aircraft, and not interfering with ATC, but has nothing to do with your piloting skills.
For the SAR part. Because all of the Yuneec offerings lack a good zoom camera (10X or better), you would be limited to flying over open areas, soon as you add trees to the mix you will be too high in the air avoiding trees for the camera to help much. (CGO-ET may help out here) SAR work does not require the 4K quality you need for cinematography, You just want to be able to see if it is a person or a dog you are flying over.
I do think the FAA needs to be more relaxed in the requirements if you are doing any kind of aid to local Police, Fire, or Rescue. There are many people who would donate their time and equipment in the aid of first responders. Part 107 is good to keep you from flying into manned aircraft, and not interfering with ATC, but has nothing to do with your piloting skills.
PatR
Premium Pilot
I tend to agree with most of your post, but I've found, as has our local fire departments, that a 3x to 5x zoom is pretty effective. I had the opportunity to fly with one of the directors at a local fire station. Him with an Inspire 2 and two lenses and me with an H at that time. Since there was a public event taking place we took turns developing angles to shoot the event as we deemed appropriate. The zoom on the 14/42mm CGO-4 is extremely effective and allows good detailed visuals of the surface when flying altitudes under 300'. This provides cause to presume the E-50 would be close to equally effective at the same altitudes.
As you mentioned, the downside to using multirotors in SAR operations is foliage. If the system cannot see through the foliage they cannot locate the subject. IR by itself will not perform the task as needed. Daylight capable medium wave side scanning IR do a lot better, especially when it's possible to overlay the IR image over a medium to high resolution image.
I think you nailed it with your assessment of Part 107.
As you mentioned, the downside to using multirotors in SAR operations is foliage. If the system cannot see through the foliage they cannot locate the subject. IR by itself will not perform the task as needed. Daylight capable medium wave side scanning IR do a lot better, especially when it's possible to overlay the IR image over a medium to high resolution image.
I think you nailed it with your assessment of Part 107.
Police officer standards and training. CA.Gov : Peace Officer Standards & Training, Commission onBOB...and P.O.S.T course is?
I am starting to use the the H in SAR/ Crime apprehension and fire. I also have the CGOET. We are still in the development stage with one call so far. I just got my CoA letter back to edit and return.
Pyromike here .
I am part of a specialist search & Rescue unit specialising in mud and swift water operations we have two typhoons ( H ) one with the standard camera and other with the C GO-ET and from my experience the cgo-et works quite well,especially flying at night with granted permission, I was advised to leave the 520 until they have all the bugs out this is only in the last two months I was given a list of issues that need to be addressed.all our ops are l.o.s. we plug the st16 to a 32" flat screen it gives a better depth of field the only problem is the play back of the c go-et footage its crap as its only a overlay but in real time it works well ,play around with the colour palettes to optimise the image.for stealth ops make sure to kill the lights on the h and with background street noise and the right hight you should get a result, we used a hot water bottle at normal body temp to calibrate our ET camera ,I have been flying the H for a year and a half.I did have to replace the first one because of a gps issue (ie) toilet bowl fllying, anyone with that issue send it back trust me there is no easy hack or fix .I fly in all conditions except rain once you get a spot of rain on the camera lens you can forget it, the max wind speed I have had to search in was 34 mph and it worked well but the battery only lasted 10 mins but it stayed where it had to.good luck any other questions drop me a line .out
PatR
Premium Pilot
If you don't turn off the the lights you run the risk of been shot down or give yourself away you just have be aware of your location set a fixed safe high to work in and let the thermal do the work and move around making sure the light at the back of the H is facing away from the target area your are watching also the RGB works very well in low light and does compliment op switching between the two will make easy to find what your looking but its not easy but it does work. I have some video of a two man team in a flood at night moving across the river when out of the darkness the thermal camera picked up something comming at the team they couldnt see anything but I could warn them to move out of the way and let it pass,( it wasnt a body)they could only see the object as it pass by it saved them been swept away .you just have to get out and fly at night .
Maybe a little temporary tape on the status light since you can turn the other lights on when needed?
I have been involved in technical rescue for the past 28 years and I am also a member of the state task force urban search and rescue team. As I think back I can recall several instances where having a UAV with a competent pilot would have been a tremendous asset. As a airplane pilot I have a good appreciation for what I can see and do in the air that someone on the ground can’t. I long ago recognized the value that a UAV could bring to the table. I purchased an H last March for my own enjoyment as well as to start to demonstrate to the agencies that UAVs are soon to become as much a standard piece of equipment as is a PFD for those involved in water rescue. It is my impression that the UAV’s role in S&R is still in its infancy. From what I have read, some agencies are further along than are others but there still seems to be a need for a central, coordinated source for information related to the topic. It should not be necessary for everyone to invent the wheel. I am beginning to see more “courses” being offered in S&R operations but it is often difficult (impossible) to determine the quality of the course. I also believe there is a bandwagon out there that everyone wants to jump on. As has already been mentioned, different UAV manufacturers direct different amounts of energy towards the S&R discipline; concurrently folks writing S&R applications seem to gravitate towards those manufacturers. I firmly believe that almost any aerial search should be flown via a preprogrammed course. Hand flying over a wide area is guaranteed to miss areas within the search limits. It is very discouraging, and frustrating, to download the track of an UAV flight, only to see the gaps in the search area and requiring the area to be searched again. Yes, I think there are exceptions - flying along a train wreck to asses the situation being one that comes to mind. It is a fairly linear search. Another exception might have been the search this past spring for a drowning victim swept away by a creek turned raging river due to mountain snow melt combined with torrential rains. Just downstream from the last seen point the creek is covered for a few miles by trees on both sides of the creek. Yes, the national guard helicopter came in at treetop level and “searched” but how effective was that and at what expense to the taxpayer? A local law enforcement agency searched the creek with an DJI UAV. I do not believe it was on a preprogrammed flight plan. I suspect given the course of the. Creek and the tree cover doing so would have been difficult. I have only identified a couple of programs for the Typhoon H that can be adapted for S&R searching. I am currently attempting to determine how accurate these preprogrammed flights are. I suspect accuracy will differ in various parts of the country based upon GPS coverage. But even with good coverage I am not sure you can take the flight planning option in the Toolbox or the Typhooh H Flight Planner, set up a flight and not risk an early unscheduled landing when flying in areas with obstructions. And in this situation I think 2 observations are accurate - you don’t get to pick where you are flying and when in search mode you may be inclined to push the limit a bit more than if you are on a flight videotaping the local scenery. And it should be apparent to all that flying the “course” to set up waypoints as is recommended for video shoots is not an option. I am hopeful that in time more SOGs will begin to appear that agencies may wish to incorporate into their system(s). I am confident that we are only scratching at the surface as to what role the UAV will come to play in the S&R arena. LIves have already been saved; its value is undeniable.
Lastly, as a search specialist I feel compelled to respectfully offer the following advice/reminder to those of you who may be new to search and rescue. While extremely gratifying when a mission is successful, we sometimes can forget the inherent dangers that come with the job. On my technical rescue team there is an unspoken rule, as I am sure there is in other agencies, that when we go out the door our first priority is that we all get to go home to our loved ones. If we save the person(s) we are going out the door to assist - that is a bonus. We have been fortunate that in my career there have been many bonuses and we have all been able to go home, sometimes battered and bruised, but nevertheless alive. Finally, do not forget the other “R” when talking about S&R - Recovery. When the decision is made to go from Rescue to Recovery it is time for everyone to stop and take a step back and assess the situation using an entirely different mind set. Not doing so only leads to accidents that never should have happened. To this day I am haunted by an incident many years ago in which several agencies, including my technical rescue team, were participating in the recovery of a drowning victim in an extremely hazaradous area. I was not involved in the recovery operation but based on what I saw on the evening news where one member of the dive team did not drown only because the strap on his BCD broke and he fell out of it, I predicted to my Dad that if they did not reassess what they were doing, someone was going to get killed. The following day a diver from a different agency tragically drowned attempting to recover the victim’s body. And while you might ask how dangerous can it be standing there flying a UAV, remember that the S&R,R environment can change drastically in a very short period of time. Please be safe.
Lastly, as a search specialist I feel compelled to respectfully offer the following advice/reminder to those of you who may be new to search and rescue. While extremely gratifying when a mission is successful, we sometimes can forget the inherent dangers that come with the job. On my technical rescue team there is an unspoken rule, as I am sure there is in other agencies, that when we go out the door our first priority is that we all get to go home to our loved ones. If we save the person(s) we are going out the door to assist - that is a bonus. We have been fortunate that in my career there have been many bonuses and we have all been able to go home, sometimes battered and bruised, but nevertheless alive. Finally, do not forget the other “R” when talking about S&R - Recovery. When the decision is made to go from Rescue to Recovery it is time for everyone to stop and take a step back and assess the situation using an entirely different mind set. Not doing so only leads to accidents that never should have happened. To this day I am haunted by an incident many years ago in which several agencies, including my technical rescue team, were participating in the recovery of a drowning victim in an extremely hazaradous area. I was not involved in the recovery operation but based on what I saw on the evening news where one member of the dive team did not drown only because the strap on his BCD broke and he fell out of it, I predicted to my Dad that if they did not reassess what they were doing, someone was going to get killed. The following day a diver from a different agency tragically drowned attempting to recover the victim’s body. And while you might ask how dangerous can it be standing there flying a UAV, remember that the S&R,R environment can change drastically in a very short period of time. Please be safe.
