H plus photo from Iceland...camera is fantastic

Mickeyboo · Jul 20, 2018

I

PatR said:
Ahh crap. With that Yuneec breeched their EULA and proclamation of no data collection. What are they thinking?

I live within the path of hospital heliocopters. DJI warns me of this while my H and H+ do not this leads me to believe they may not be as controlling. If this is not the case does anyone know the protocol for contacting Yuneec for the "key"? Which would allow unlocking NFZ's for licensed drone operators?

Regarding Barton's claim that update can be done on any network, it does not seem to be the case for me either like Ty Pilot. Or perhaps I should say when I'm connected already to the internet via my St16+ it will not look or find any updates. I guess you're saying it does for you...you're stating you can update via your ST16+ network? This was not the case for me in Iceland as well as on my home network...despite trying update could only work on established home networks not via my ST16+ I won't spend any more time on sorting this out and those trying to update should probably see what works best for them but I recommend the way Ty, CraigCam and I did it for simplicity.

oliver · Jul 20, 2018

Mickeyboo said:
I

I live within the path of hospital heliocopters. DJI warns me of this while my H and H+ do not this leads me to believe they may not be as controlling. If this is not the case does anyone know the protocol for contacting Yuneec for the "key"? Which would allow unlocking NFZ's for licensed drone operators?

Regarding Barton's claim that update can be done on any network, it does not seem to be the case for me either like Ty Pilot. Or perhaps I should say when I'm connected already to the internet via my St16+ it will not look or find any updates. I guess you're saying it does for you...you're stating you can update via your ST16+ network? This was not the case for me in Iceland as well as on my home network...despite trying update could only work on established home networks not via my ST16+ I won't spend any more time on sorting this out and those trying to update should probably see what works best for them but I recommend the way Ty, CraigCam and I did it for simplicity.

Yuneec Europe replied me that it was impossible to remove the NFZ.
I am pro and declared DGAC (French FAA) and I could do it on the H with a license key.
Our French importer is fighting to change things.
Looks like Yuneec is discovering the world of video professionals he's boasting about. No GPS is an unpardonable mistake, a lack of unacceptable tracking, I lost an important order because of this.

Mickeyboo · Jul 20, 2018

oliver said:
Yuneec Europe replied me that it was impossible to remove the NFZ.
I am pro and declared DGAC (French FAA) and I could do it on the H with a license key.
Our French importer is fighting to change things.
Looks like Yuneec is discovering the world of video professionals he's boasting about. No GPS is an unpardonable mistake, a lack of unacceptable tracking, I lost an important order because of this.

Is this different from the H? Because I was able to fly in NFZ's with that. I had to do a shot of a community garden close to an airport DJI would not fly but the H did. Sorry to hear you lost some work because of the NFZ not allowing you to fly.

oliver · Jul 20, 2018

Mickeyboo said:
Is this different from the H? Because I was able to fly in NFZ's with that. I had to do a shot of a community garden close to an airport DJI would not fly but the H did. Sorry to hear you lost some work because of the NFZ not allowing you to fly.

yes, I had with the H a key to disable the NFZ. I repeat, the people who did the H PLUS lost their H experience regarding professional practice (No GPS, No NFZ). Or they are not the same.

Mickeyboo · Jul 20, 2018

oliver said:
yes, I had with the H a key to disable the NFZ. I repeat, the people who did the H PLUS lost their H experience regarding professional practice (No GPS, No NFZ). Or they are not the same.

OK I was writing to you at 5:00 am or earlier so please excuse me for not being coherent.
I will see when the situation requires being in a NFZ. The last time I only had to fly at a height of 20 ft. which was below tree level. I would be interested to hear from people in the US with the H+ have encountered difficulty in NFZ's thus far there could be a difference in software for us.

oliver · Jul 20, 2018

the problem is that we do not know the list of airports concerned, I asked them, no answers ...

YuKay · Jul 20, 2018

I suspect that Yuneec are having to change to comply with impending new drone regulations globally. There will obviously have to be a way for pro users to unlock the NFZ restrictions but it will be a different way - probably by making an application to the authorities.

I don't understand the GPS issue but it may be resolved in the same way.

New drone regs are due to be passed into law by the end of this month on my side of the pond.

PatR · Jul 20, 2018

When last keeping up with European law it became evident the E.U., which would include the U.K. unless Brexit actually came to pass, was adopting across the board regs that required flight controllers to employ NFZ technology. European airspace is much more controlled and restrictive than U.S. airspace so from a bureaucrat perspective it would make sense to extend their control to hobby level flight. As one company has been expending considerable resources to lobby governments to adopt their technology it appears they won a major financial victory over there. Much money will be made from companies having to pay for licensing their code.

OTOH, Europe is very much a “fee for service” area where flying is concerned, requiring pilots to pay fees for multiple levels of flight and ground services every time they fly, whether they make use of those services or not. As drones would be an excellent source of tax (fee) revenue, requiring NFZ’s and an “oversight” authority to service them would set the stage for including drones in a fee for service extortion program structure. Those programs have made flying personal aircraft over there very expensive and reduced general aviation flying by a considerable level.

Plans to do similar here through an ATC privatization law were shot down in the last FAA reauthorization bill. The plan would have effectively given control of our airspace to commercial carriers and associated entities, requiring pilots to pay over and above their fuel tax fees, which are mandated by law to offset FAA service costs, every time they wanted to use a towered airport, check weather, receive ATC services, file flight plans, make use of airport security services, buy fuel, or any other service needed to fly their aircraft. The plan would essentially have given control of our airspace to those that have caused most of the airport congestion problems, the commercial air carriers. The same drone outfit that has been pushing for NFZ incorporation in Europe has been lobbying heavily for the same thing here, thus far without success. They even saw one of their minions become qualified (prematurely) to provide LAANC services for drone operators in hopes of collecting access service fees. The defeat of ATC privatization removed 50% of that potential revenue stream.

Because of upcoming changes to E.U. drone laws it’s easy to understand why Yuneec would employ NFZ tech there but to incorporate it in all their systems, especially those the list on their website as “professional” systems, which includes the H Plus, H-520 and 920 Plus, doesn’t make sense. As unit sales volume is greater in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world outside of China we might think Yuneec would make systems that permitted owners to operate freely within the legal confines of national geographies. We should also remember that Yuneec has publicly stated they do not restrict their commercial systems, a statement that has become a bit troubling with the presence of H Plus NFZ restrictions in Europe and no means to remove them.

NorWiscPilot · Jul 20, 2018

PatR said:
When last keeping up with European law it became evident the E.U., which would include the U.K. unless Brexit actually came to pass, was adopting across the board regs that required flight controllers to employ NFZ technology. European airspace is much more controlled and restrictive than U.S. airspace so from a bureaucrat perspective it would make sense to extend their control to hobby level flight. As one company has been expending considerable resources to lobby governments to adopt their technology it appears they won a major financial victory over there. Much money will be made from companies having to pay for licensing their code.

OTOH, Europe is very much a “fee for service” area where flying is concerned, requiring pilots to pay fees for multiple levels of flight and ground services every time they fly, whether they make use of those services or not. As drones would be an excellent source of tax (fee) revenue, requiring NFZ’s and an “oversight” authority to service them would set the stage for including drones in a fee for service extortion program structure. Those programs have made flying personal aircraft over there very expensive and reduced general aviation flying by a considerable level.

Plans to do similar here through an ATC privatization law were shot down in the last FAA reauthorization bill. The plan would have effectively given control of our airspace to commercial carriers and associated entities, requiring pilots to pay over and above their fuel tax fees, which are mandated by law to offset FAA service costs, every time they wanted to use a towered airport, check weather, receive ATC services, file flight plans, make use of airport security services, buy fuel, or any other service needed to fly their aircraft. The plan would essentially have given control of our airspace to those that have caused most of the airport congestion problems, the commercial air carriers. The same drone outfit that has been pushing for NFZ incorporation in Europe has been lobbying heavily for the same thing here, thus far without success. They even saw one of their minions become qualified (prematurely) to provide LAANC services for drone operators in hopes of collecting access service fees. The defeat of ATC privatization removed 50% of that potential revenue stream.

Because of upcoming changes to E.U. drone laws it’s easy to understand why Yuneec would employ NFZ tech there but to incorporate it in all their systems, especially those the list on their website as “professional” systems, which includes the H Plus, H-520 and 920 Plus, doesn’t make sense. As unit sales volume is greater in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world outside of China we might think Yuneec would make systems that permitted owners to operate freely within the legal confines of national geographies. We should also remember that Yuneec has publicly stated they do not restrict their commercial systems, a statement that has become a bit troubling with the presence of H Plus NFZ restrictions in Europe and no means to remove them.

PatR,

Nice post, as usual.

Curious... who is considering the H Plus as a commercial platform? I just checked the Yuneec USA site... not listed under their commercial banner.

While I agree we do not want NFZ shoved down our throats, I also want to be clear on what models are considered "hobby" and which ones are considered "commercial" if only for the sake of "truth in advertising." Or rather, keep the confusion to a minimum in discussions such as these.

Yes, I know... likely not a topic worthy of further consideration.

Thanks!

Jeff

PatR · Jul 20, 2018

NorWiscPilot said:
PatR,

Curious... who is considering the H Plus as a commercial platform? I just checked the Yuneec USA site... not listed under their commercial banner.

Jeff

Although I used a minor amount of "license" in calling the H Plus a commercial product, Yuneec established it a commercial drone by calling the H Plus, AND the H-480 when equipped with Real Sense, "Professional" drones. To be a professional there needs to be compensation and to receive compensation commercial licensing for drone operation is required. The H Plus is being directly marketed for professional use.

My guess is it would require a pretty darn good lawyer to establish the H Plus was not a product designed for commercial operation if forced to do so in court. The devil is in the details, for or against I suppose.

CraigCam · Jul 20, 2018

That’s actually why I got a plus. Get it while it’s still considered hobby class and before the DHS clamp down currently being talked about gains traction.

rdonson · Jul 20, 2018

That's just weird that you add a RS module to the H and it becomes professional.

Commercial is a different class which includes the 520 and 920.

Eagle's Eye Video · Jul 20, 2018

Would being retired make one a professional hobbyist?

PatR · Jul 20, 2018

oliver said:
the problem is that we do not know the list of airports concerned, I asked them, no answers ...

Would you like a list of their previous restricted airports? As this site will not permit upload of an Excel file I added a .txt extension at the end of the file name that will have to be removed prior to attempting to download and open the file.

NorWiscPilot · Jul 20, 2018

rdonson said:
That's just weird that you add a RS module to the H and it becomes professional.

Commercial is a different class which includes the 520 and 920.

Cannot say I disagree with your assessment, RD!

PatR · Jul 20, 2018

Eagle's Eye Video said:
Would being retired make one a professional hobbyist?

I don't think Social Security benefits qualify in that manner

My best guess would be that us paying to play also fails to qualify

PatR · Jul 20, 2018

rdonson said:
That's just weird that you add a RS module to the H and it becomes professional.

Commercial is a different class which includes the 520 and 920.

It would be fun to debate the semantic differences between commercial and professional but I won't. I do feel that Yuneec is stepping all over their d---s trying to qualify their wares. They really need to hire a professional/commercial (

) marketing team.

YuKay · Jul 20, 2018

Surely it's up to the customer/operator to determine whether a drone is commercial/professional? The H is used by many non-retail organisations, including the police, so it must be classed as a commercial/professional drone, even if it is also a high end hobby drone. Even the venerable Q500 is classed as a professional drone in some online listings.

The problem for Yuneec and the regulators is that both hobbyists and pro users buy from the same outlets so there can be no distinction in firmware without unlocking or enabling the pro features after purchase.

oliver · Jul 21, 2018

THank

PatR said:
Would you like a list of their previous restricted airports? As this site will not permit upload of an Excel file I added a .txt extension at the end of the file name that will have to be removed prior to attempting to download and open the file.

Thank's PatR