There is no European drone regulator. Besides the UK does not (want to) be part of Europe (any more).
Questions for the Experienced guys about the video recording and its playback issues
- Thread starter Tower_King
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Splitting hairs? There is a European Council which is making laws about drones which must be adopted by all member states.
And the UK is now in the process of writing all EU laws into its own constitution - which is where they will stay for the foreseeable future.
Meanwhile, the UK CAA has already responded in detail to the draft new EU drone regulations consultation paper (copy available if you would like it) and those comments have fed through to the final draft.
So the chances of the UK not being compliant with the upcoming new regulatory regime must be somewhere between slim and none imho.
well, I am asking myself for a loooonggg time already what this elaborating about legislation has to do with the title of this thread, but EASA (seeming to be the European regulator) has formulated some guidelines and rules that may become law in the future (maybe 2019 https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/Opinion No 01-2018.pdf ). I do not need any CAA copies, thank you, I live in Europe not in the UK.
Almost tempted to write down some more 'hairsplitting' comments about Europe and the UK, but I'll leave you to it.
go and fly!
Almost tempted to write down some more 'hairsplitting' comments about Europe and the UK, but I'll leave you to it.
go and fly!
While waiting for the new UK Drone Bill to be published next month, here's the Government's 2017 consultation paper on which it will be based.
And here's a recent overview of the EU law.
And this might be an interesting new pay-as-you-go drone insurance provider. They currently offer insurance for pro operators but will be extending to hobbyists soon.
Still awaiting a reply from the CAA to my earlier query.
And here's a recent overview of the EU law.
And this might be an interesting new pay-as-you-go drone insurance provider. They currently offer insurance for pro operators but will be extending to hobbyists soon.
Still awaiting a reply from the CAA to my earlier query.
PatR
Premium Pilot
Consider looking through the new commercial operations forum for answers to your questions. I think much of what you are looking for is in discussion there.
Thanks and I will - but I'm never going to be a commercial operator and that forum seems a bit rarefied for a discussion on how the upcoming regulations affect hobbyists. That said, this thread is also the wrong place for that. it would be good if we could have a Regs forum - sub-divided into Pro and Amateur and then again into USA, EU, UK, Australia and any other regions which may be warranted. As of very soon, I think it's going to be a helluva hot topic.
PatR
Premium Pilot
As it should be if people are at all interested about their future. Sadly, such a forum would be filled with mostly “hot air” as we still fail to form a legitimate group that would act to pressure politicians. We love to pontificate and complain but we seem to loath actively engaging issues at levels anything could be accomplished.
rdonson
Premium Pilot
Single voices don't have the clout of a large, organized group. Something like the AMA, if they truly embraced drones, might get their attention.
Ideally you need a group who can lobby not only the FAA but our elected grafters in DC.
Ideally you need a group who can lobby not only the FAA but our elected grafters in DC.
The new UK Drones Bill marches on with confirmed new height/distance limits effective from this July - and, from Nov 2019, a fine of up to £1,000 for any pilot who hasn't registered his drone or sat the online operator test:
New drone laws bring added protection for passengers
New drone laws bring added protection for passengers
I would like to address issues for recreational drone operators in the US. Here, the AMA is actively lobbying US Congress to keep recreational drone usage solely under the auspices of an organization like the AMA. Unfortunately, the AMA is traditionally for airplane/helicopter pilots flying around an model airfield. That's not the type of activity that many recreational drone pilots (like me) are interested in. I see my Typhoon H as another camera in my collection. I take it out to collect photos and videos in interesting areas and from directions that would be difficult to photograph otherwise. I have no interest in flying around a model airfield even though I am a member of the AMA.
Using the drone as an aerial camera with live video feedback means that rules such as "visual line of sight" are not nearly as important as they would be for RC airplane/helicopter. Rules about privacy should be the same for all photographers. Rules about safety should be realistic, based on science, not perception. None of us wants to endanger people on the ground or in aircraft.
Finally, I totally agree that every drone pilot flying a bird weighing over X pounds should demonstrate his/her knowledge of the rules. This would be easily accomplished through a basic online training course, online test and certification. No one, not recreational pilots or commercial pilots should be flying around without demonstrated knowledge of the rules.
OK, I'll step down off the soap box, now.
Using the drone as an aerial camera with live video feedback means that rules such as "visual line of sight" are not nearly as important as they would be for RC airplane/helicopter. Rules about privacy should be the same for all photographers. Rules about safety should be realistic, based on science, not perception. None of us wants to endanger people on the ground or in aircraft.
Finally, I totally agree that every drone pilot flying a bird weighing over X pounds should demonstrate his/her knowledge of the rules. This would be easily accomplished through a basic online training course, online test and certification. No one, not recreational pilots or commercial pilots should be flying around without demonstrated knowledge of the rules.
OK, I'll step down off the soap box, now.
I can see it becoming a process like operating a motor vehicle... written test to be able to fly in limited situations while learning, followed by an in-air test to gain an amateur level license. Run by incompetent staff at the DFV. 
Requirements for minimal liability insurance.
Requirements for minimal liability insurance.
Actually, I was thinking of something much less formal. We're talking about an unmanned aerial vehicle weighing a couple pounds moving a max. 40 mph in relatively empty airspace compared to a manned automobile weighing a couple of tons moving in excess of 70 mph on a crowded freeway. Therefore, the level of regulation, training and certification should reflect the difference. I would like all drone pilots flying craft over some weight to know the rules before taking off. Insurance is a good idea but mandatory for certification? No.I can see it becoming a process like operating a motor vehicle... written test to be able to fly in limited situations while learning, followed by an in-air test to gain an amateur level license. Run by incompetent staff at the DFV.
Don't forget all the potential income provided by the systems setup to protect the public from those that would fly under the influence... local court fees and fines, all day FUI seminars on a Saturday, taught by former alcoholics on what not to do, so you don't caught next time...
Having read all the draft UK/EU legislation, I'm pretty sure there will be no compulsory practical test for recreational fliers over here. This, combined with a likely simple online test and the omission of compulsory insurance, enables the Government to claim that it is helping to grow the industry while securing the manufacturers' cooperation to build in automatic ringfencing of no-fly zones and monitoring technology.
Not sure I agree about the comparison with road vehicles. Above the tree-line, the only real danger is a bird strike unless you choose to fly at a drone convention. No amount of training will reduce the risk of a bird strike. And surely no newbie is going to want to fly close to trees or other obstructions when he has £1000+ worth of shiny new hardware at risk. Yes, there will always be accidents but I think there would need to be a lot more than there are now - and with serious consequences - before any kind of government flying test for recreational users would be thought necessary. And when it comes to the worst-case scenario of a collision with a commercial airliner, the facts in the UK are that there has never been a collision between a drone and a physically piloted aircraft, albeit the number of reported near misses is increasing from a very low base, as is the number of drones (now believed to be around 2m in the UK - including unused Christmas gifts - but nobody knows for sure).
For comparison, there were 1m car drivers in the UK in 1921 but no compulsory driving test until 1935. Back then, drivers had to avoid horses, carts, pedestrians and the very occasional other driver - as well as trees and buildings.
Not sure I agree about the comparison with road vehicles. Above the tree-line, the only real danger is a bird strike unless you choose to fly at a drone convention. No amount of training will reduce the risk of a bird strike. And surely no newbie is going to want to fly close to trees or other obstructions when he has £1000+ worth of shiny new hardware at risk. Yes, there will always be accidents but I think there would need to be a lot more than there are now - and with serious consequences - before any kind of government flying test for recreational users would be thought necessary. And when it comes to the worst-case scenario of a collision with a commercial airliner, the facts in the UK are that there has never been a collision between a drone and a physically piloted aircraft, albeit the number of reported near misses is increasing from a very low base, as is the number of drones (now believed to be around 2m in the UK - including unused Christmas gifts - but nobody knows for sure).
For comparison, there were 1m car drivers in the UK in 1921 but no compulsory driving test until 1935. Back then, drivers had to avoid horses, carts, pedestrians and the very occasional other driver - as well as trees and buildings.
PatR
Premium Pilot
There’s some good points in the previous posts but something we might disagree with. If we review the crash posts in this forum we might find a lot of new users will take off and crash in relatively crowded environments. We read about hitting trees and houses all the time[emoji6]
Building more safety features into a product that can’t ever be made completely safe only adds cost to the purchase price. In this we certainly can look at automobiles for correlation as the implementation of seat belts, air bags, disc brakes, anti lock brakes, side door beams, 5mph bumpers, fuel tank protection, and crushable front ends has added a tremendous amount to the cost of a new car and more is on the way with auto braking snd lane centering devices. People are still going to die in cars, perhaps more than before as they become less dependent on skill and more on automation. Tesla almost confirms that with their “auto pilot”.
The key to safety comes with education and experience. Educate first and gain experience after a general education is obtained. Full scale flight training works the same way. Ground school, then flight school. Performing both incrementally as tasks are encountered works extremely well.
Building more safety features into a product that can’t ever be made completely safe only adds cost to the purchase price. In this we certainly can look at automobiles for correlation as the implementation of seat belts, air bags, disc brakes, anti lock brakes, side door beams, 5mph bumpers, fuel tank protection, and crushable front ends has added a tremendous amount to the cost of a new car and more is on the way with auto braking snd lane centering devices. People are still going to die in cars, perhaps more than before as they become less dependent on skill and more on automation. Tesla almost confirms that with their “auto pilot”.
The key to safety comes with education and experience. Educate first and gain experience after a general education is obtained. Full scale flight training works the same way. Ground school, then flight school. Performing both incrementally as tasks are encountered works extremely well.
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If it is illegal to fly within 1km of an airfield, for example, I can't see any problem with hard-wiring such restrictions into a drone's brain before it is sold. It makes life easier for everyone - and from an enforcement point of view, it makes a legal framework for drone flying possible without spending huge sums on policing and investigating…money which otherwise would have to be recovered from the drone operators. So, in broad terms, automating drone safety must make drone ownership more affordable.
Also, I believe that without these new built-in restrictions, governments everywhere would have had no choice but to demand that every recreational pilot undergoes a full and complex training programme culminating in one or more monitored flying tests. These courses would inevitably be expensive enough to deter many, and possibly most, newcomers from buying a drone. And the result of reduced demand would be higher prices, less competition, less development and less progress.
So I am 100% in favour of automated safety if it reduces the burden on regulators and enforcers and encourages more sales from more newbies. The industry cannot now sustain itself on commercial business alone.
Given that a degree of regulation and policing was inevitable, I think the draft UK Drone Bill hits the right notes and allows the industry to expand. Automatic ring-fencing also gives newbies fewer technicalities to worry about and therefore more time to learn how to handle their new craft properly.
Also, I believe that without these new built-in restrictions, governments everywhere would have had no choice but to demand that every recreational pilot undergoes a full and complex training programme culminating in one or more monitored flying tests. These courses would inevitably be expensive enough to deter many, and possibly most, newcomers from buying a drone. And the result of reduced demand would be higher prices, less competition, less development and less progress.
So I am 100% in favour of automated safety if it reduces the burden on regulators and enforcers and encourages more sales from more newbies. The industry cannot now sustain itself on commercial business alone.
Given that a degree of regulation and policing was inevitable, I think the draft UK Drone Bill hits the right notes and allows the industry to expand. Automatic ring-fencing also gives newbies fewer technicalities to worry about and therefore more time to learn how to handle their new craft properly.
OK I'm back again..if I am out flying my drone around the neighborhood,and I always have my camera on when I am flying, and while I am showing my neighbor the video I took of the neighborhood, he likes the shot that my camera took as my drone flew over his house, so I give him a picture of it as a gift to a friend....we are close friends....no money of any kind changed hands, it was just a friendly gift, now a couple years later he decides to sell his house and uses that picture, the picture belongs to him now, I have no claim to it and don't even know he is using it.......am I supposed to have him arrested now for using a drone picture without a commercial lic..? Or am I going to be arrested and fined by the Federal Government, because a picture I took a couple years ago and gave away as a gift, was used......
PatR
Premium Pilot
I think we’re have just entered the “coulda, woulda, shoulda, if my aunt had balls shed’a been my uncle” territory
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