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The parameters for proper charging of the batteries

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I have, so far, used only the supplied charger of our H.

I now equipped with a SKYRC Q200 charger, to charge all my batteries simultaneously.

I have some doubts about the parameters to use:

for 4 cells / 4S and 14.8 V, the charger, by default, proposes 2 Amp .; is it the right value?

Thanks for any response.
 
If you use it on 110 vac, for 4 batteries at the same time it may only do 2 amps. For 2 batteries perhaps 4 amps. For only 1 battery it should do 6 amps, the maximum charge rate I use for individual batteries. The charger will (should) automatically shut off when 16.8 volts is reached. 4S is correct. If you use a DC supply you may be able to charge at a higher rate for multiples.
 
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If you use it on 110 vac, for 4 batteries at the same time it may only do 2 amps. For 2 batteries perhaps 4 amps. For only 1 battery it should do 6 amps, the maximum charge rate I use for individual batteries. The charger will (should) automatically shut off when 16.8 volts is reached. 4S is correct. If you use a DC supply you may be able to charge at a higher rate for multiples.

Tx for your response.

I use it on 220 vac, because I live in Italy.

My question, however, was to understand what is the right amperage, not the maximum amperage deliverable by Q200.

For example: for NiMH batteries , I know the right amperage is half of capacity; that is, if I have a 2000 mAh battery, the right amperage is 1000 mA.

The batteries of the Typhoon H are 5400 mAh, so if the same rule, the amperage is 2700 mAh.

But it is fair to apply the same rule ?
 
I use a TritonEQ. I use the balance lead set, cost me ~$10 on eBay. I charge one battery at a time. I set it for 14.8v 4A (can go to 6A, but I play it a little more conservative). Takes ~40 min to charge.
 
The standard amperage, or charge rate for a lithium polymer battery is typically 1C, or stated differently, equal to the pack size. If you have a 2000ma battery, 1C=2A. If you have a 5500ma battery a 1C rate would be 5.5A. In the NiMh 2000ma example you listed a 1/2C rate of 1000ma (1A) which, although appropriate fir a NiMh battery, theoretically doubles the charge time from what is required of a LiPo standard 1C charge rate. In practice that time varies somewhat. With very large battery capacities, for example a battery of 10,000ma - 22,000ma, it may not be possible for some chargers to charge at a full 1C or higher rate. The battery could still be charged, but at a reduced rate.

There is nothing wrong with using charge rates <1C as long as charger cut off times are adjusted to permit a longer charge time. Lower charge rates will prevent heating of the battery during the charge cycle. Charging a battery at rates >1C can have detrimental effects on batteries. If you desire to charge at a rate >1C you should consult with the battery manufacturer, or review battery documentation/labeling, to establish that a higher charge rate is safe for a particular battery, and what the maximum allowable charge rate is. I'll suggest that anyone considering charge rates >1C obtain and use battery temperature sensing devices and monitor them closely. If your charger does not support the use of such tools, limit the charge rate to 1C or less.

Chargers that have adjustable charge times are often shipped with a default setting based around an approximate 1C charge rate, which could terminate the charge cycle before the process was completed if charging at rates <1C. Consult your charger's instruction manual for more information on cut off times.
 
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The standard amperage, or charge rate, is typically 1C, or stated differently, equal to the pack size. If you have a 2000ma battery, 1C=2A. If you have a 5500ma battery a 1C rate would be 5.5A. In your 2000ma example you listed a 1/2C rate of 1000ma (1A) which theoretically doubles the charge time from what is required in a standard 1C charge rate. In practice that time varies somewhat. With very large battery capacities, for example a battery of 10,000ma - 22,000ma, it may not be possible for some chargers to charge at a full 1C or higher rate. The battery could still be charged, but at a reduced rate.

There is nothing wrong with using charge rates <1C as long as charger cut off times are adjusted to permit a longer charge time. Lower charge rates will prevent heating of the battery during the charge cycle. Charging a battery at rates >1C can have detrimental effects on batteries. If you desire to charge at a rate >1C you should consult with the battery manufacturer, or review battery documentation/labeling, to establish that a higher charge rate is safe for a particular battery, and what the maximum allowable charge rate is. I'll suggest that anyone considering charge rates >1C obtain and use battery temperature sensing devices and monitor them closely. If your charger does not support the use of such tools, limit the charge rate to 1C or less.

Chargers that have adjustable charge times are often shipped with a default setting based around an approximate 1C charge rate, which could terminate the charge cycle before the process was completed if charging at rates <1C. Consult your charger's instruction manual for more information on cut off times.

Thank you for your comprehensive answer.

However, among the recommendations printed on the battery, there is: "Never exceed 1C (1 x Capacity) charge rate"; then, considering the measurement errors, I think 0.55 C is a good (conservative) compromise as the charging method; and it is also the limit of the Q200 for simultaneous charging of 4 batteries.

As another charge parameter, I also secured shut off when 16.8 volts is reached (as also indicated by Rayray); since Q200 lets you change this parameter, you feel going so well, or is to be changed ?
 
Most chargers divide the available amperage by the number of batteries being charged. For example, if you have a 16 amp charger you could charge at a maximum of 16 amps on one battery but if you were charging two the rate would max out at 8 amps per battery, and continue to divide as you added batteries up to the max number the charger could do at one time. The average chargers most encounter are rated at 25 - 50A. They get expensive above that level.

H batteries typically max out between 16.7 and 16.8V when completing the charge. That level is obtained after the battery has "heated up" during the charging process and normally drops back a little after they "normalize". The value Rayray provided is a good one. The 1C rate noted on the battery is completely safe. They are just telling you not to exceed it. Having 8 H batteries, with each having 20 or more charge cycles on them I assure you 1C is fine. The H batteries are not anywhere close to my first lipo rodeo.

Be sure to always use the balance charge function if it is a selection.


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As another charge parameter, I also secured shut off when 16.8 volts is reached (as also indicated by Rayray); since Q200 lets you change this parameter, you feel going so well, or is to be changed ?

LIPO charge shutoff at 16.8 is correct. Charge at 5 or 6 Amps, no more than 6. Brevity is the soul of reason.
 
I have a question about storing the batteries. I have a Turnigy 300W 20A charger that is capable of initiating a storage charge. My findings here state that the storage charge for the Typhoon H should be: 15.2V (3.8V/cell ).

My question is when I do run the storage program on the batteries, what is the frequency that I should check the batteries (Every week)? I normally fly my H within a week and would initiate the balance charge program before flight. I am sure there will be times where I might not fly in a few weeks.
 
Good question, and one that has never been resolved. Your probably good storing for a couple days fully charged, although they would not be as safe as when stored at recommended storage levels. Just don't top them off before flying. That's real hard on a lipo.


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. . .Just don't top them off before flying. That's real hard on a lipo.

I am glad I asked! I was planning on doing that next time.

Would it be easier on the batteries if you discharge them, and then balance charge before flight (After being stored for a week or so)?
 
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I think what PatR meant by topping off is taking a battery that you fully charged a week earlier, and then charging it again before your flight. Charging it from a storage charge isn't a problem.
 
THoff,

Thank you for the clarification. I know batteries are a beast best not taken likely, especially LiPo. :)
 
Best practice is to stored discharged and charge same day they are to be used. Charging the night before is no big deal as long as you use them the next day.


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I think what PatR meant by topping off is taking a battery that you fully charged a week earlier, and then charging it again before your flight. Charging it from a storage charge isn't a problem.

Correct, don't top off a previously charged battery.


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I am reading about these Li-Po batteries for months now and this is all fine, you guys are experts.
BUT, where Yuneec or any other manufacturer ,using Li-Po batteries, educates how we must store and use batteries for their products ??? Their standard chargers should be with all this options to discharge to specific voltage to store batteries, but they provide chargers without discharge capabilities.
Most buyers of these products will never know that Li-Po battery for typhoon H shoule be stored at about 15 V for longer storage and then charged on the day when you want to fly. Most of them will fly and storage battery to whatever coltage they finished flight or they will charge battery right after this flight to be ready on the next.
 
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Consumer level products are intended to move the product. Nothing more, nothing less. Most products meet the minimum level necessary to fit the targeted demographic. Once they achieve that level nothing further is required from the business perspective. This is kind of raw, but they provide a functional aircraft, controller, and charger, the charger meets the minimum standards necessary to safely charge the batteries. Those desiring greater capability have the option of becoming informed (that's called "due diligence") and and obtaining better at the individual level.

Computer and camera manufacturers are no different really. They provide products using Lipo batteries that have exactly the same chemistries and characteristics as what we use in our hobby aircraft. Ours are just larger. Their chargers do not provide discharge capability. Camera manufacturers do not inform their customers of the best battery storage practices, and few computer manufacturers provide much info about the proper care and storage of their batteries. What they provide works as well as it needs to in order to make their products useful. Could they be better? Absolutely, but they would have to increase the price to a level some demographic study indicated would be higher than people would be willing to pay.

OTOH, the internet has a wealth of information covering a great many things. Basic search functions will lead anyone to any information they desire and are willing to investigate. But people must first have a desire to learn more and unfortunately many seem to think everyone else owes them that information and should have to provide it upon demand. A free, basic education ends at the grade school level. Anything beyond that requires personal initiative. I'm not trying to be a chit with the above but people simply have to take the initiative if they want to learn more or be as informed as they can. Because someone buys something does not mean the maker of what they bought is then responsible to spoon feed the buyer extensive, in depth information for all eternity. If people want something they need to go after it. If they want everything delivered to them they are in for a long wait.

Those some view as "experts" gained what knowledge they have through experience and research. They elected to become involved in activities that required the use of different technologies and in order to become proficient needed to become better informed. They took the time and expended the effort to read as much as they could find about the subjects they were interested in. Some experimented to establish limits not generally published. In short, they wanted to learn more and therefore did. Some of them share what they have learned when others ask, some unfortunately don't, but what all of them know can be found.
 
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