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A drone 1500 ft up near Ottawa Airport

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This is a direct violation of of already strict laws. Obviously a law didn't stop them, just enforce the existing laws and educate drone violators the hard way if necessary.

I also question the legitimacy of the claim. I'm not faulting pilots, it's just that a lot of past claims of drone sightings by pilots have been determined later as being false or mistaken identity.

BTW - is there a good place to verify the legitimacy of these claims? Aka Snopes?

Are there any pilots here willing to chime in on the ability of a pilot to correctly identify a drone from a bird while at the same time handling all of the cockpit activity during final approach or takeoff?
 

Steve Carr

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Well, this doesn't help with our trying to get the laws in Canada more reasonable.
'It just went past our left wing': Air Canada plane avoids drone near Ottawa airport
Porter Air turboprop reported a drone at 1500 ft (approx 500 M) that went past their left wing. It only takes a few of these idiots to ruin things for the rest of us who follow the rules.
I find most of these reports are rather bizarre and I have never seen a single report, to date, that was confirmed to be a recreational drone. The clue here is what the pilot said "Tower, we just had to avoid a drone here on final [approach]. It just went past our left wing," It suggests he made a maneuver to avoid a collision. In order to do that he would need to see it well in advance which means it would be a huge drone, not some little P3. A small quadcopter is invisible at the approach speed. It is about the size of a seagull.

Prior to 2014, there were thousands of reports every year of unidentified objects by pilots. Since then the number has sharply declined to a few hundred while drone sightings have increased steadily. Part of the reason is simply because when a pilot reported an unidentified object they were often ignored. But when they report a drone it is immediately credible and newsworthy.

I'm not suggesting it never happens. But I'm convinced it is most likely something other than a drone.

Drone Identification Chart.jpg
 

Murray Martz

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I have friends that are commercial and private pilots. The commercial ones have said that they are moving so fast, that to be able to say without a doubt, that they would even see a drone, or even be able to identify something as one, is next to impossible. To travel slow enough to say they can visually identify one, would cause their plane to drop from the sky.
 
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Could a drone like a phantom really bring down a plane? I think the issue is a pilot trying to avoid it and mis calculates and crashes. Just hit the drone. Better than reacting and crashing. Im a school bus driver and we are taught to hit an animal verses trying to avoid and losing control of the bus.
 

Steve Carr

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Could a drone like a phantom really bring down a plane? I think the issue is a pilot trying to avoid it and mis calculates and crashes. Just hit the drone. Better than reacting and crashing. Im a school bus driver and we are taught to hit an animal verses trying to avoid and losing control of the bus.
I suspect they could inflict serious damage hitting a prop or jet engine and that Lipo battery is instant fire. But so far worldwide there has not been a single recorded strike. Let's hope it stays that way.
 
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I suspect they could inflict serious damage hitting a prop or jet engine and that Lipo battery is instant fire. But so far worldwide there has not been a single recorded strike. Let's hope it stays that way.
Yes I agree damage is definite. But actually bring it down? The size difference would decimate the drone.
 
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I think they absolutely could , but not in the way one might imagine it; such as immediate catastrophic structural failure. There are many videos of big birds such as buzzards penetrating a general aviation aircraft's windshield and impacting the pilot. Here's one. If the pilot becomes incapacitated and is alone that would do it. Two pounds impacting an aircraft at speed releases a lot of energy. A classic example of a high speed strike with an object that would at first seem to be irrelevant; a piece of foam insulation brought down the shuttle Columbia.
 
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Murray Martz

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I think they absolutely could , but not in the way one might imagine it; such as immediate catastrophic structural failure. There are many videos of big birds such as buzzards penetrating a general aviation aircraft's windshield and impacting the pilot. Here's one. If the pilot becomes incapacitated and is alone that would do it. Two pounds impacting an aircraft at speed releases a lot of energy. A classic example of a high speed strike with an object that would at first seem to be irrelevant; a piece of foam insulation brought down the shuttle Columbia.
There is more to it than what you just posted about foam. It's not as if a piece of household foam or construction foam did it. The size and weight of the foam contributed to the disaster, but that piece of foam would have been very dense and large compared to a drone, and it was not just a piece of foam alone that did it. Plus the speed the shuttle was moving at was way faster than a plane would be going. And there were already problems that had started before the foam let go.

NASA~ "It is suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to the protective tiles of the orbiter.”

Read more at Did environmentalism bring down Columbia?

Never the less, IF....and again I say....If this was intentional by the drone operator and not just a fly away, the operator is going to be in deep tihs when found.
 
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As a private pilot it my opinion to see and identify a drone at cruse or approach speed is almost impossible. You might see a dot in the sky and by the time it takes your brain to identify it as an object chances are you already hit it of flew by it. Closing speed is that fast and the object like a phantom or Q500 is small. Birds at altitude are usually the larger type and I had a bird strike on the leading edge of the left wing. This occured at cruse speed at 2500ft It was about 1 second prior to impact that I saw something ---a dot in the sky.. I only know it was a bird by the blood that was on the leading edge of the wing. I doubt any pilot can honestly say what they saw was a drone with 100% confidence. An object yes but to identify it as a drone ......
 

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There was an incident reported in the U.K. press early last year about a drone hitting a commercial airliner which was, subsequently, shown to have actually been a plastic shopping bag. The press were quick to put drone strike as a headline but when it was finally shown to have been nothing like a drone nothing was said. No retraction or follow up story to say it wasn't a drone.

I take all stories about drone near misses with a good pinch of salt. That is not to say that it doesn't or won't happen since it is true to say that there are some brainless idiots out there that will do some spectacularly stupid things with drones, but when I hear such stories my thirst thoughts are about the bogus report early last year that the press pounced upon and never retracted even when it was proven wrong.
 
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The Evening Standard in the UK reported '13 near misses' at London Airports last year: one in particular is 'a white quadcopter drone narrowly missed the wing of an A320 at 6800ft!'. With the phantoms climb speed at 5m/s that's over 7 minutes of just max throttle up to even reach that high!

Worth a read, some of them are incredibly improbable....

Revealed: 13 near misses with drones at London airports last year
 

Murray Martz

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As a private pilot it my opinion to see and identify a drone at cruse or approach speed is almost impossible. You might see a dot in the sky and by the time it takes your brain to identify it as an object chances are you already hit it of flew by it. Closing speed is that fast and the object like a phantom or Q500 is small. Birds at altitude are usually the larger type and I had a bird strike on the leading edge of the left wing. This occured at cruse speed at 2500ft It was about 1 second prior to impact that I saw something ---a dot in the sky.. I only know it was a bird by the blood that was on the leading edge of the wing. I doubt any pilot can honestly say what they saw was a drone with 100% confidence. An object yes but to identify it as a drone ......
More pilots that are drone flyers should send in letters of support that indicate what you just said. I don't think people realize how many feet per second a plane travels at. A football field in a blink of an eye.
 

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The Evening Standard in the UK reported '13 near misses' at London Airports last year: one in particular is 'a white quadcopter drone narrowly missed the wing of an A320 at 6800ft!'. With the phantoms climb speed at 5m/s that's over 7 minutes of just max throttle up to even reach that high!

Worth a read, some of them are incredibly improbable....

Revealed: 13 near misses with drones at London airports last year
While a Phantom can theoretically reach 6800ft I have no doubt that it would never get back onto the ground in one piece given its much slower rate of controlled decent: the battery will have depleted long before landing was possible. I seriously doubt that anyone would have flown a drone that high and hope to have a functioning drone afterwords. However, that is not to say that no-one has tried it...there are some nutters out there!

What is striking about that report, though, is that the pilot of the manned aircraft was not only able to say it was a drone, but to actually be specific in saying it was 'a white quadcopter'. A truly remarkable feat of observation, given the speed that these aircraft fly at, that find hard to believe.
 
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Having produced airline engines i would say it would be very hard to bring an airline down with a small drone. It would be freak bad luck unless it influenced the aircrafts power output at a critical stage and induced a stall.

On a prop unit im no expert but i imagine it would just swipe it out the way easily and not bend the prop etc.

A direct hit to a jet engine could cause issues to it absolutely but more likely i suspect the internals would break down the drones components almost instantly and produce no explosion beyond a backfire etc. Yeah its one engine thats in need of repair/ replace for sure after but i highly doubt its one that would quit mid air.

A birds skeleton is just as formidable and weve all seen how these engines handle frozen turkeys :) They are tested to run until they are about as balanced and unstable as a Donald Trump supporter.
 
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Could a drone like a phantom really bring down a plane? I think the issue is a pilot trying to avoid it and mis calculates and crashes. Just hit the drone. Better than reacting and crashing. I'm a school bus driver and we are taught to hit an animal versus trying to avoid and losing control of the bus.
Yeah Billy it's not quite the same when you take evasive action in an aircraft as when you do it in your bus or vehicle, you have the potential to lose control on the ground because you lose traction and control so skid roll etc etc an Aircraft you don't lose control by losing traction you are part of the air, there is no one else near you or shouldn't be on approach and as has been stated more risk going straight ahead and ingesting the bloody thing into an engine or windscreen etc
 
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I find most of these reports are rather bizarre and I have never seen a single report, to date, that was confirmed to be a recreational drone. The clue here is what the pilot said "Tower, we just had to avoid a drone here on final [approach]. It just went past our left wing," It suggests he made a maneuver to avoid a collision. In order to do that he would need to see it well in advance which means it would be a huge drone, not some little P3. A small quadcopter is invisible at the approach speed. It is about the size of a seagull.

Prior to 2014, there were thousands of reports every year of unidentified objects by pilots. Since then the number has sharply declined to a few hundred while drone sightings have increased steadily. Part of the reason is simply because when a pilot reported an unidentified object they were often ignored. But when they report a drone it is immediately credible and newsworthy.

I'm not suggesting it never happens. But I'm convinced it is most likely something other than a drone.

View attachment 5807

Now that right there is god **** funny!
 
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Having produced airline engines i would say it would be very hard to bring an airline down with a small drone. It would be freak bad luck unless it influenced the aircrafts power output at a critical stage and induced a stall.

On a prop unit im no expert but i imagine it would just swipe it out the way easily and not bend the prop etc.

A direct hit to a jet engine could cause issues to it absolutely but more likely i suspect the internals would break down the drones components almost instantly and produce no explosion beyond a backfire etc. Yeah its one engine thats in need of repair/ replace for sure after but i highly doubt its one that would quit mid air.

A birds skeleton is just as formidable and weve all seen how these engines handle frozen turkeys :) They are tested to run until they are about as balanced and unstable as a Donald Trump supporter.
Now why would you have to bring up politics and start insulting people who have never done anything to you, or you have never met. We are all here together because of our love of drones, not because of who we voted for. Get a life
 
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