Should I report 107 pilot to FAA?

[PatR]

Delmustator,

What you described relative to "shared expenses" had been a very contentious subject between pilots and the FAA for a very long time...until about two years ago. The FAA pretty much clearly defined when, how, and where expenses for a flight could be shared between non-commercial users of the aircraft. If at any time during the flight in question there had commercial intent, or consideration, the entire flight is commercial, and no amount of "wiggling" will change that. You are also dealing with a rule that is intended to serve manned aviation where two or more people are actually inside the aircraft, traveling from point to point. The rule is not applicable to unmanned systems where two people cannot possibly share the same physical destination.

 

[Delmustator]

Like I said, "Would the FAA spank you for doing it? Probably".

 

[thomashall1993]

Hey Jeff, you make a good point. Normally, the FAA always takes the hard-line on the rules. However, I thought about this and discussed it with a fellow pilot (Billy), who is also an FAA examiner, about how FAR loopholes could apply.

Note: I am NOT am telling anyone to do this. It's simply a hypothetical scenario. Anyone do this and you'll probably get an FAA flogging as there is no precedent (that I know of) for it in drone operations. Billy agreed with this point. He's seen the FAA go after people for way less.

FACT
As a non-commercial pilot, you CANNOT charge for your time as PIC of any aircraft. However, you CAN charge users of the aircraft for expenses related to aircraft operations (e.g. aircraft rental, fuel, landing fees, etc.). Basically, I fly you wherever you want pro-bono, you pay for the plane rental and any related expenses. This practice has been the norm for decades. I did this a LOT when I was building flight hours (I flew fire watch 3 days a week and did aerial ground mapping with video equipment looking out a hole in the bottom of the plane, e.g. spycraft stuff). Basically I was game for anything that gave me hours and didn't cost me anything out of pocket. Some pilots tow message banners at the beach 7 days a week during the entire summer to gain PIC flight hours in their log books. Works out great if you have no real job, live with your parents, or work the midnight shift. Man I got 5000 flight hours as PIC in my logbook! Yeah, where? At the beach...

SCENARIO
How could this apply to flying a drone for aerial videos? It could be argued that you could charge a drone use fee to cover expenses for normal wear on your drones motors, batteries, chargers, video download fee, etc. Basically anything that is required in support of the drone flight operations. What this monetary use fee would be is anyone's guess. How would the time-frame be determined as to when the drone motors should be replaced? How many flights should require the replacement of the drone batteries? Whatever it is would have to be an established industry rate and flights//hours documented in a logbook that stays with the drone. The raw video would go to the renter where it would be on them to do whatever they want with it.

THE CONUNDRUM
So does this mean one could slap a Hobbs meter on their drone (to track operating hours) and start making money? Probably
Would the FAA try to spank the drone pilot if they charged a $300/hour drone use fee as a non-part 107 pilot? Probably
Is it worth the hassle of using this loophole in the FARs to make money with a video drone? TBD by someone at some point..

Really way off topic.

 

[xpete]

Don't report it until AFTER you speak with the blatant offender. Once you tell this person then the onus is on them because now he knows someone with knowledge of the rules is watching.

If he keeps it up, then by all means talk to your local FAA field office and make mention of a pilot blatantly breaking the rules.

 

[keiths]

In the UK if something is not in your direct control then you should not fly over people. It is also 150m if congested areas and large gathering of people. So in affect you can not fly over either as you have a 120m height limit. The 50m rule is for buildings (though you can fly as close as you like if you have permission). For people under your control the normal accepted limit is 30m.

 

[Tgillan48]

A couple of items here: It is not a law, it is a Part 107 rule violation. You (we) are not an enforcement agency. His violations will catch up to him eventually. Concentrate on building your own business and clients will see the difference.

 

[Wyaatt]

I don't know about this whole "report" business. If someone was in immediate danger or the person flying was a complete loser and was not flying a controlled UAS. Then I would go directly to him and ask what the ****. But unless you are walking in his shoes and know exactly what permissions he has or doesn't have. Then I would make note of it and play on you gut feeling. But first talk the person and then decide. I have flown my Drone for a motorcycle Association and I don't charge anything I give my footage to them to use how they see fit. They appreciate my help and we always announce that a Drone will be used at different aspects of the event. I am not a Certified Drone Pilot as of yet. But do go over the FAA rules and am studying the Part 107 so I am up on most of things. No body is perfect and I am sure if any no one has ACED the test. If I have offended anyone with that, oh well I am not trying to be hateful just opinionated.
I guess just let it go.....

Thanks

 

[pete c]

I just created a business in my local town and am certified by the FAA as a 107 Remote Pilot. I also just graduated from college at the age of 42 with an accounting degree and one of the biggest things that I absorbed from my expensive education is that your business should be ethical and legal in all regards. There is another drone business in town that is operating with a 107 license and has been working with a local non-profit to capture photos and videos of local events, but he is violating rules blatantly flying over people's heads, and not just 1 or 2, but large crowds which come out to see the events. If it was just a minor infraction, I probably would not be concerned but there is enough bad news about our industry on the news lately and I believe that we should be operating within the regs that have been established so that we can set an example for our industry. My dilemma is should I report his activities to the FAA or not? I am not interested in "getting him" in order to make him look bad and make me look better. I do not have time for that kind of petty activity, but I want to do what is right. Would love professional, respectful, and courteous advice as to which direction to move in.
Thomas

PS, I have included a picture that shows a sample size of the crowds he was flying over. When I obtained it, I sent my drone straight up, got my pictures and came straight down. I do not believe in violating our policies that have been established in order to "get the shot" or to make great products.

Hi what is the camera he is using? Nice pic!

 

[PatR]

I have flown my Drone for a motorcycle Association and I don't charge anything I give my footage to them to use how they see fit. They appreciate my help and we always announce that a Drone will be used at different aspects of the event. I am not a Certified Drone Pilot as of yet.
Thanks

Wyatt,

You may want to establish how the motorcycle association is using your product. You may currently be in violation of the rules prohibiting the use of drones by non commercial operators using their equipment for consideration. if the motorcycle group uses your product to increase membership or anything that brings them consideration it would be considered a violation. Pretty much the same thing as shooting a video or photos of a car dealership and just giving them the imagery for them to use as they desire. If they gained from it a violation occurred.

 

[pete c]

Wyatt,

You may want to establish how the motorcycle association is using your product. You may currently be in violation of the rules prohibiting the use of drones by non commercial operators using their equipment for consideration. if the motorcycle group uses your product to increase membership or anything that brings them consideration it would be considered a violation. Pretty much the same thing as shooting a video or photos of a car dealership and just giving them the imagery for them to use as they desire. If they gained from it a violation occurred.

Says the over reaching government! It is because the worthless IRS isn't making money off you. Sickening how we just give up our money rights and freedoms to a bunch of crap politicians or bureaucrats. If you help someone out thats a crime! Yeah sick!

 

[FlushVision]

In the UK if something is not in your direct control then you should not fly over people. It is also 150m if congested areas and large gathering of people. So in affect you can not fly over either as you have a 120m height limit. The 50m rule is for buildings (though you can fly as close as you like if you have permission). For people under your control the normal accepted limit is 30m.

Not accurate.

 

[dartstar1]

It’s all about safety... Altitude is like life insurance when your PIC .Remember the FAA isn’t happy till your unhappy . If it doesn’t effect your personal safety don’t get involved they’ll hang themselves

 

[DrNewcenstein]

If the pilot had a waiver, then he should be covered.

I'm not going to compare the risk of a falling drone to the risk of a falling jumbo jet or even private Learjet. It's just insane to compare flying plastic bits of a typical drone to burning fuel.

 

[BEC1]

I personally know of an FAA inspector who reported other inspectors for doing something wrong. The event made national news when it affected a world-renowned stunt pilot. He heard the fellow FAA inspectors say they were "out to get" the stunt pilot. The two FAA inspectors are still employed with the FAA but the fellow inspector who reported him no longer works in the aviation industry and was fired by the FAA.

The person who reported Alaska Airlines was pencil whipping maintenance has been blackballed in aviation. The infraction was so serious that Alaska Airlines will never be allowed to maintain their own aircraft but yet the person who reported the infractions was the one who had his career ruined.

Just be careful.

 

[PatR]

In government and large corporations the whistle blower is the one often the most severely penalized, especially when many are actively participating in the same activities that are being exposed by the whistle blower.

The public has the good reason to expect laws to be obeyed but people with power see themselves as above the law, and the public as peons or chattel.