H920 replacement battery

[Breizhdrone]

Hi,

Thank you for these interesting informations that will achieve to a solution for the problem of the autonomy.

Yesterday, I had a reply by email from Yuneec Europe technical service. It recommends, for the Tornado H920 PLUS, the following LiPo battery specifications:

from 4000 mAh / WH 88.8 6S1P 22.2 V 30c / 60c

Technical data:

• 
  
  
  • Voltage: 22.2V
  • Version: 6S1P
  • Capacity: 4000mAh
  • Continuous discharge current: max. 30C (120.0A)
  • Short-term discharge current: max. 60C (240.0A)
  • Charging current: max. 4C (16.0A)
  • Balancer connection: XH
  • Plug-in system: XT90 (socket)
  • Cable: AWG10 High Intensity Silicone Cable
  • Weight: about 656 grams (including cable and plug)
  • Dimensions: approx LxWxH 147x45x45 mm

Have a look for the German LiPo battery recommended for Tornado H920 Plus by Yuneec Europe:
SLS XTRON 4000mAh 6S1P 22,2V 30C/60C - Lipo Modellbau Akkus bei Stefansliposhop online kaufen

EUR 76.99 with VAT (sending not included)/unit
+> US $ 95.50 with VAT (sending not included)/unit

Only 2 same LiPo batteries on the batteries compartment of the Tornado H920 Plus.

Homepage of the German manufacturer of LiPo battery:
https://www.stefansliposhop.de

For each battery of this type, it is also necessary to use this adapter to switch from the orange XT90 plug of the battery to the blue EC3 plug of the original H920 Plus: Adapter XT90 auf EC3 - Lipo Modellbau Akkus bei Stefansliposhop online kaufen

EUR 2.90 with VAT (sending not included)/unit
+> US $ 3.60 with VAT (sending not included)/unit

The orange XT90 plugs are considered by specialists more reliable than the original blue EC3 plugs that equip the Tornado H920 or H920 Plus. The solution could also be to change by a specialist the original EC3 plugs with XT90 plugs in the batteries compartment of the Tornado H920 Plus. XT90 plugs instead of EC3 plugs also means the right plugs to use its charger to charge them.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Breizhdrone, looks like a good alternative for Yuneec battery, although for a dual battery setup the solution PatR has found and tested is 2000mA more: 10000mA to 8000mA and about 32 euro less. If the Zippy battery is available, you’d get more flight time for less cost. But Both are better than OEM by Yuneec!

 

[PatR]

Breizhdrone,

Thanks for sharing that with the 920 population, it provides "official" acceptance for the solution others have developed using different batteries. As Dougcjohn mentioned, Zippy makes a 5000mA battery and a pair also fits the battery bay, providing roughly 4 minutes more flight time than a pair of 4000mA batteries. 8000mA provides roughly 20 minutes of flight time and 10,000mA provides about 25 minutes of flight time. test flights for both mA levels were flown aggressively so a little more flight time should be provided when the aircraft is flown like a camera rig instead of a hot rod.

U.S. shipping cost for Zippy 5000mA batteries when obtained from a U.S. Zippy is free, and requires less than a week to deliver, so the EU solution may not be the best solution for U.S. 920 owners. Obtaining the power adapter plugs may well be a great deal for U.S. owners if the shipping cost is reasonable. I know I can't make a pair for that low a cost due to connector prices. A single XT90 connectors costs as much or more as the entire EU produced adapter. Might you have any info that would be applicable to Australian 920 owners?

Perhaps your Yuneec EU contacts could talk Yuneec into providing a means to disable the visual low voltage/battery warning pop up messages. If those could be minimized, modified, or eliminated the most annoying issue with the 920 would be resolved. Again, thanks for sharing. It's nice to see Yuneec is responding to at least some 920 concerns.

For those that would prefer buying charging cables instead of making them, I obtained a pair from Young RC, an Amazon distributor. I found the price very reasonable at $10.99 when compared to what it would cost to make them myself. Go to Amazon and enter the following text into the search box:
YoungRC RC XT90 lipo Battery Balance Charge Cable xt90 connector to 4.0 Banana Plug charge lead 30cm 12AWG for RC Helicopter Quadcopter Lipo charger(2pcs)

 

[Breizhdrone]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for sharing infos and solutions for the community.
I find it's excellent to see the dynamism of the community to try to find a solution in the interest of all, contrary to Yuneec in the US who gave up.
Yuneec Europe and Yuneec UK seem to be more attentive to customers than the US branch of Yuneec, even if everything is relative.
I'm just relaying their solution, to the whole community, for information. For my part, I did not update my H920 and always fly with the stock and Tattu batteries that I find better.

Indeed, the LiPo batteries are hazardous materials and their shipments outside local areas is too complicated unless being manufacturer and distributor, for example as Gensace (Tattu LiPos), which is a German manufacturer but distributes some of its products also in the USA:
Gens ace Lipo battery - Gens Ace
There is also the problem of standards according to the zones which may be different and may pose problems of importation.

On the other hand, what about in case of failure with a single LiPo battery on board, unlike two or three ?

As Billy Deans from Florida said, one of the best American Tek divers (I'm a scubadiving and rebreather instructor):

"TWO IS ONE, AND ONE IS NONE"

He was especially active in wreck and technical diving and was also one of the early pioneers and advocates for using trimix for deep scubadiving.
When Billy Deans spoke of this he spoke of redundancy for safety.
If things go wrong during a dive or if a piece of equipment fails while at depth, it’s good to have a back up and having it can actually be life-saving.
I think it is the same for others fields, when safety is concerned, as flying.

For adapters from the orange XT90 plug of the battery to the blue EC3 plug , the German SLS manufacturer (Lipo Modellbau Akkus bei Stefansliposhop online kaufen) accepts payments by Paypal and can in my opinion answer you in English at this address: [email protected]. Do not forget to mention that you are located in the USA or Canada or Australia.... The best could be that a US dealer (Vertigo Drones, Carolina Dronz,...) who reads us, imports these adapters and sells them in the US ?

Adapter XT90 auf EC3 - Lipo Modellbau Akkus bei Stefansliposhop online kaufen

EUR 2.90 with European VAT (sending not included)/unit
+> US $ 3.60 with European VAT (sending not included)/unit

 

[PatR]

I completely agree that redundancy is always desirable, however, for a little while it seemed there was a panic attack taking place in the EU about batteries. Someone else in that area had already tried the single graphene battery but did not provide much in the way of test data to support it aside from flight time. The lack of data is why I gave it a try bit at the same time myself and others over here were continuing our search for other alternatives. The Zippy brand provides at least three with 4000mA, 4500mA, and 5000mA capacities that are sized where two will fit the 920 battery bay. I've made reference to this at least once prior to this post, and posted the dual Zippy battery test data at the Facebook 920 owners group about a week ago.

There are other battery brands that will also fit the 920, some as singles, some as pairs. We were never without a battery or batteries that would fit and fly the 920, but we did seem to be encountering more than a few people that were under the impression they would not be able to fly their 920's because Yuneec was selling an inferior battery product. That Yuneec has some lousy 920 batteries is certainly true but there was no reason for some people to panic or report Yuneec to governmental authorities as one Australian did with a complaint to CASA. They only needed to be personally creative and take the initiative.

Once again, it's nice to see a Yuneec vendor electing to provide an alternative solution but it's interesting they are doing so after independent 920 owners validated alternative battery solutions. They should have been the first to develop those solutions, and disseminated that information to Yuneec dealers world wide.

At this point in time I'm highly supportive of Dougcjohn's efforts in contacting GensAce/Tattu to encourage them to develop and provide a higher C rated battery for the 920 to people in the U.S., as well as those in the EU and UK. It's a much better solution as it allows use of all three power connectors in the 920 and provides 2000mA more capacity than the Zippy 5000mA battery solution. It would also likely be a more stable supply situation. As I've been using the GensAce/Tattu branded batteries for at least 4 years I've come to trust them in every application where they've been used.

 

[Breizhdrone]

Hi Pat,

Thank you for your advice and analysis. I am also very satisfied with the Tattu brand of LiPo batteries that work well, and better with Tornado H920.
The LiPo batteries are not the strong Yuneec seems it. As you have written previously, the Tornado H920 has not sold well, it's probably because the LiPo have been stored for a long time after the launch of the Tornado H920.

Otherwise, the Tornado H920, despite the interest of the copter has not sold well in Europe too, because of a poor finish of some details with malfunctions and a price much too high at launch (near US $ 7000.00).

In France, to be able to fly in agglomeration aeras, if the drone is less than 2 kg, it is much less constraining. That's why Yuneec releases products like the Typhoon H480 or H520 today. To fly in agglomeration areas, a drone of more than 2 kg to fly must be equipped with a rescue parachute tested in real situation, a system of motor circuit breaker independent of the principal remote control (other small hand remote control) and soon a buzzer to attract attention of people on the ground when it crash. The bad sales of the Tornado H920 is also to put on the fact that Yuneec refused to see at the time the regulation constraints and not propose viable solutions to professional drones operators in France. Its main competitor understood it and proposed data sheets & key files, to facilitate the homologation of its drones (Inspire 1 & 2), and help third-party manufacturers to offer systems to fit with the regulation. As we have already mentioned together, it would not be enough to make Tornado H920 an exceptional tool for the broadcast or aerial photography fields.

It would be also important for the safety to have data on the temperature of the LiPo battery in flight, which is not possible with Yuneec products today.

The disadvantage also leads to an advantage ;-) This should prompt people today who use Yuneec drones with ambiant temperatures below 17-20 Celsius degrees (63-68°F), check the temperature of their LiPo battery with a small pocket infra-red thermometer (no contact), for example, before taking off.

Indeed, below a LiPo battery temperature of 15 °C (59°F), it may malfunction, with stop power and a risk of crash.

IBT Power test and curves

Let's keep us informed, for everyone's interest,

Denis

 

[PatR]

Your mention of checking battery state prior to use in colder conditions is a good one, as it applies to all lithium polymer batteries used in any device. As temperature decreases so does the battery's ability to provide current. At extremely low temperatures a lithium polymer battery will not function at all. It is imperative people that operate multirotors, especially those that operate them commercially, become as well informed as possible with every aspect of their aircraft in order to best understand and service them.

 

[PatR]

More About the Zippy 5000mA Battery

Electing to recharge the 5000mA Zippy's today I've encountered something rather perplexing. After placing them on the charger at a 1C charge rate (5A) one battery appears to have received 5256mA after a charge period of 1:10:55, achieving a final charge state of 25.19v. Prior to being charged the battery voltage was 22.03, and when being flown the voltage provided by the ST-16 indicated 21.3v, well above the minimum safe voltage level. I have not checked the second battery's stats yet.

Anyone have any ideas that might explain a mA input that exceeds the battery's labeled capacity? It suggests to me they have a capacity greater than 5000mA but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[mouks]

Very informative thread, seems like the Zippys are a good deal. For people working in cold weather, these batteries would also fit and are designed to work with temps as low as -20°c ICED POWER LiPo 6S 22.2V 5000mAh 45C/90C T
I found the info on a german forum SLS - Neue Akkus für den Tornado H920+ - RC-Drohnen-Forum.de - Quadrocopter, Multicopter, Hexacopter

 

[PatR]

If you have a European HobbyKing warehouse they are a pretty good deal. Mine are consistently delivering 23 minutes plus flight time regardless of how hard they are flown. Internal resistance has remained stable and charge times for similar voltage levels are consistent. My 7 new Yuneec batteries with 10 cycles each are decreasing in peak voltage, increasing internal resistance, and providing progressively less flight time.

 

[mouks]

Thanks for reporting your experience. The original batteries can be found for cheaper than Zippys in Europe but if they are old stock and perform so poorly, I understand why they sell them for so cheap! I'll get a set of those iced power battery first, they are not cheap but winter in Switzerland is a bit colder than in California

 

[Dougcjohn]

How are the Iced Power LiPo different from reg LiPo’s? What / How makes them more functional in extreme cold? Physical Size is close to Zippy of same 5kmA so that wouldn’t provide much for an insulation layer. Chemical make-up would be the same - LiPo.

If they are specialized, are they not very functional in warmer temps?
Are there equivalent batteries in USA for cold climates?

 

[PatR]

I’m quite interested in those answers as well. I was not aware of a lithium polymer chemistry developed for improved cold weather performance. I’ve been under the impression the better cold temp performance was only with lithium ion at our level.

 

[mouks]

They say that they use a special fabrication process and additives to allow the batteries to work from -20°c to 40°c and that they are able to deliver 100% of the advertised power at -20°c and more at higher temps. They don't give much infos about the technology used but provide a test report from an independant laboratory https://www.swaytronic.ch/images/Swaytronic_Iced_Power_Pruefbericht_5214010881.pdf It's in english if you scroll down to page 7

 

[PatR]

Seabee sent me a head's up this morning that Hobby King has cut the prices on the Zippy Compact 5000mA and Turnigy Graphene 8000mA batteries. If you're still looking for batteries the price drop is significant and enough for me to justify another pair of Zippy's.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Seabee sent me a head's up this morning that Hobby King has cut the prices on the Zippy Compact 5000mA and Turnigy Graphene 8000mA batteries. If you're still looking for batteries the price drop is significant and enough for me to justify another pair of Zippy's.

Pat, thanks for the heads up on Zippy. That is a nice price, just picked up 6, 3 sets.

 

[PatR]

Any time. The prices of both types are at now is pretty close to what they were when I first looked at them. Zippy’s were out of stock and the price jumped as soon as they came back in.

 

[thoneter]

New battery test coming soon!

HobbyKing now has the Zippy Compact 6s 25C 5000mA batteries back in stock so I ordered a pair for testing. Combined weight is a bit over 1400 grams and they are shorter than the Turnigy Graphene which will leave a wee bit more room for adapter cables. Since they come with an XT60 connector the adapter cables will be less expensive to make than the XT90 version. Two of these are only $7.00 more than a single Turnigy but provide 2000mA more capacity with 10C greater burst discharge capability.

Who knows, we might see a 25 minute flight time again with these. That would be nice.

So is the consensus that the ZIPPY Compact 5000mAh 6S 25C Lipo Pack w/ XT90 are the right batteries to upgrade to? $47 presently.

 

[PatR]

I haven't found anything better yet, and why I have 4 of them in hand and two more on the way against 7 Yuneec's and 1 Graphene. Performance is consistent with the Zippy's and for $94.00 you get consistently more useful time than $280.00 worth of Yuneec batteries will give ya. IR cell values of the Zippy's are a fraction of what the Yuneec's are showing, and IR is telling you what their condition is.

I look at it this way;

Positives:
Fewer batteries to maintain, track, and carry
More flight time
Much lower cost
Longer life cycle
Lower weight for max flight time, reducing current loading
Lower discharge temperature makes things easier on electronics mounted above battery compartment
No sales tax or shipping charges

Negatives:
Requires 3.5" adapters
May require changing charger system settings. If using the X2/A10 it's not hard to do.
Realistically, no warranty. You'd spend more time than it's worth trying to get one replaced if one was DOA

Seabee has found a couple others but at higher prices. Dougcjohn had some inquiries with manufacturers. The UK folks seem to prefer paying more for lower capacity after market dealer batteries. I'm still researching batteries but not diligently as before. These are more than good enough for me to ease off searching for suitable dimension batteries for more battery capacity research. These will do fine until HobbyKing elects to phase them out discontinue for some reason or another.

The only question I have is if the Zippy battery discharge temps are low enough to try disconnecting the cooling fans under the battery compartment to gain a little more flight time. Since they haven't been flown in the summer months that will save for later.

 

[thoneter]

I haven't found anything better yet, and why I have 4 of them in hand and two more on the way against 7 Yuneec's and 1 Graphene. Performance is consistent with the Zippy's and for $94.00 you get consistently more useful time than $280.00 worth of Yuneec batteries will give ya. IR cell values of the Zippy's are a fraction of what the Yuneec's are showing, and IR is telling you what their condition is.

I look at it this way;

Positives:
Fewer batteries to maintain, track, and carry
More flight time
Much lower cost
Longer life cycle
Lower weight for max flight time, reducing current loading
Lower discharge temperature makes things easier on electronics mounted above battery compartment
No sales tax or shipping charges

Negatives:
Requires 3.5" adapters
May require changing charger system settings. If using the X2/A10 it's not hard to do.
Realistically, no warranty. You'd spend more time than it's worth trying to get one replaced if one was DOA

Seabee has found a couple others but at higher prices. Dougcjohn had some inquiries with manufacturers. The UK folks seem to prefer paying more for lower capacity after market dealer batteries. I'm still researching batteries but not diligently as before. These are more than good enough for me to ease off searching for suitable dimension batteries for more battery capacity research. These will do fine until HobbyKing elects to phase them out discontinue for some reason or another.

The only question I have is if the Zippy battery discharge temps are low enough to try disconnecting the cooling fans under the battery compartment to gain a little more flight time. Since they haven't been flown in the summer months that will save for later.

Ordered 2 batteries just now. Hoping to hear from you on summer flying with those batteries and possibly disabling the cooling fans.