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Just curious

Joined
Dec 29, 2018
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Location
Ozark Mountains, SE Missouri
Let me start by saying I know the FAA regs/rules for flying my hex. However I was just wondering, as I hold no pilot license of any sort, and do not know this sort of stuff. How far off the end of an approach or departure from an airport is any aircraft (drones excluded;)) when it is at or below 400 feet?
 
As a pilot depends if it ATC controlled or not.
A Unicom airport is not controlled by ATC. If the pilot wishes to take off and maintain 50 feet above ground, so be it.
Landing he would be smart to do a normal approaching decent.
 
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As a pilot depends if it ATC controlled or not.
A Unicom airport is not controlled by ATC. If the pilot wishes to take off and maintain 50 feet above ground, so be it.
Landing he would be smart to do a normal approaching decent.
Sorry, but you didn't really answer my question. If that is the case, then tell me this. I live just outside five miles from an uncontrolled airport, due south of a departure/approach. If that pilot maintains 50' after takeoff and flies over my property then strikes my hex, isn't he in some serious trouble? Because I will have done absolutely nothing wrong.
 
No the pilot won’t be at fault as a airplane can fly where it wants and drone pilots must stay clear. Crop dusters rip along only ten feet off the ground . We drone pilots seem to have zero rights
 
No the pilot won’t be at fault as a airplane can fly where it wants and drone pilots must stay clear. Crop dusters rip along only ten feet off the ground . We drone pilots seem to have zero rights
I'm sorry but I don't believe that. I own a significant amount of acreage, all forest. There is no reason for a pilot of any kind (unless he is crashing) to be that low over my property. I think he would have some serious questions to answer.
 
Sorry, but you didn't really answer my question. If that is the case, then tell me this. I live just outside five miles from an uncontrolled airport, due south of a departure/approach. If that pilot maintains 50' after takeoff and flies over my property then strikes my hex, isn't he in some serious trouble? Because I will have done absolutely nothing wrong.

At all times, manned aircraft will always have the right of way, regardless.
 
At all times, manned aircraft will always have the right of way, regardless.
I get that, and I would always yield that right of way. But, see my reply to Northern guy and riddle me that.
 
As a pilot depends if it ATC controlled or not.
A Unicom airport is not controlled by ATC. If the pilot wishes to take off and maintain 50 feet above ground, so be it.
Landing he would be smart to do a normal approaching decent.
So on a "Normal approaching decent" on average how far would an aircraft be off the end of the runway when it is at 400'? And, I am talking private aircraft, not the big commercial guys.
 
As of this moment hobby flights have no hard altitude limits. You are bound only by notifying any airport within 5 miles (notification only) and by remaining clear of manned aircraft. So the answer to your question is simply, it does not apply to hobby flights.

Now, moving forward, once the FAA implements the new law those rules will change.

NEW RULES (once implemented):
- 400 feet AGL max in Class G Airspace

- ATC PERMISSION required in Class B, C, D, and E (surface) - they will assign max altitude. FAA has indicated that the current LAANC system used by Part 107 pilots will be used by hobby pilots.

- A test will be required as well.

- You must register with FAA as recreational sUAS pilot. $5/3 years same number goes on ALL yor aircraft.
 
I get that, and I would always yield that right of way. But, see my reply to Northern guy and riddle me that.

I will give the same answer. You own the land, but not the airspace.

Here's from experience. I work in an awesome build, and one of the pit that I work in is Truebeck, who's buiding the extension of Facebook. Google has a helicopter that goes around, and takes aerial scans. I have a Right to use Airspace Waver (only good in areas, where I operate) and one day, I happened to be doing a progressive report on the Facebook build, taking video and photos. Every so often I check Flightradar24 for air traffic, and the App is telling me that a helo is approaching at 600ft. But once it got closer to my worksite, it dropped its altitude.

What should I do? I have a waiver from the FAA. I have the right to use the airspace at 400ft, should I give way?

Let's forget the FAA rules for a second and let's think about the lives inside the cockpit that aircraft. Manned aircraft will always have the right of way, regardless without questions, it does not matter if you own land in the whole state or city. Give way, because it can save lives.
 
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As of this moment hobby flights have no hard altitude limits. You are bound only by notifying any airport within 5 miles (notification only) and by remaining clear of manned aircraft. So the answer to your question is simply, it does not apply to hobby flights.

Now, moving forward, once the FAA implements the new law those rules will change.

NEW RULES (once implemented):
- 400 feet AGL max in Class G Airspace

- ATC PERMISSION required in Class B, C, D, and E (surface) - they will assign max altitude. FAA has indicated that the current LAANC system used by Part 107 pilots will be used by hobby pilots.

- A test will be required as well.

- You must register with FAA as recreational sUAS pilot. $5/3 years same number goes on ALL yor aircraft.
Again, I know all the rules and I know it doesn't apply to hobby flights as you say. It was just a question of curiosity.
 
But to answer your question, on a normal 3 degree glide slope a GA type plane will be around 2,800 to 3,000 feet from the touchdown zone of a runway when it it is at 400 feet AGL.

HOWEVER, that is not a guarantee. The plane might be higher, or lower. Point is it does not matter, you must remain clear and there is no current 400 foot limit despite what you may think.
 
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Regardless of how much land you own, you don't own the airspace above it. Although a "hard value" has never been established a Supreme Court ruling back in 1946 or so, which is the latest case to determine airspace ownership, put private airspace ownership at a height the property owner can effectively use. For the purposes of that particular case that height was about 86' AGL. For all intents and purposes, the tallest object on your property is the maximum extent of your private airspace ownership.

The FAR's do place altitude limits on most manned aviation activities based on population congestion, with some exceptions for helicopter operations. In low congestion areas the altitude floor is 500'. For congested areas it's 1,000'. However, in areas sparsely occupied by humans manned aviation can fly as low as they want, as long as they can make a safe landing in the event a power unit fails. So if your property is out in the middle of the boondocks with nobody but you and your structures around they can fly pretty darn low as long as they don't touch the ground and remain at least 500' separation from you and your buildings. Your cows, horses, or sheep aren't covered by that as the regs specifically reference persons or structures but if the flight activities caused you to suffer a loss of livestock or business revenue you might recover those losses in a civil court.

Where collision avoidance between drones and manned aircraft is concerned, the FAA places the onus of "see and avoid", "safe separation of aircraft" 100% on drone operators. Full scale is not responsible for seeing and avoiding drones. They are responsible for assuring the safe outcome of a flight but not for seeing and avoiding drones. So in the U.S. ANY collision between a manned aircraft and a drone, regardless of location or altitude, will be the fault of the drone operator. About the only way to reduce our liability in this regard would be to have a NOTAM generated and published that describes our location, altitudes, and times of flight to provide full scale operators a means of determining where drone operations are being conducted in order to avoid them. Such is likely mentioned in RPR’s mitigation factors for his waiver. Even then, we are responsible for providing a means to maintain a watch of the airspace for manned aircraft and takes the steps necessary to assure safe aircraft separation.

I'll try to answer your original question, which was a very good one, in another post.
 
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But to answer your question, on a normal 3 degree glide slope a GA type plane will be around 2,800 to 3,000 feet from the touchdown zone of a runway when it it is at 400 feet AGL.

HOWEVER, that is not a guarantee. The plane might be higher, or lower. Point is it does not matter, you must remain clear and there is no current 400 foot limit despite what you may think.

I'd like to add a portion of an FAA climb/descend performance gradient chart to your post. It's normally used to establish minimum aircraft performance to assure obstruction clearance for arrivals and departures but it's useful to see climb/descent rates per minute for different air speeds. Airport and terminal area air speeds are limited to 200 knots and most single engine general aviation aircraft will use a 60 to 90 knot climb or descent air speed. Confusing this a little is separating ground speed from air speed as winds and angle of climb affect indicated airspeed to either increase or decrease actual ground speed.

15003
 
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Bottom line is I would be very reluctant to be thinking about how close to the runway I can fly before encountering a plane at 400 feet agl on final approach into an airport.
 
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So on a "Normal approaching decent" on average how far would an aircraft be off the end of the runway when it is at 400'? And, I am talking private aircraft, not the big commercial guys.
Lets look at a # of scenarios, If I'm a helicopter i don't have to follow the Unicom Final Approach Pattern,
I can fly 10 feet off the ground all the way to touch down. As long as I'm communicating with other aircrafts my intent, direction and distance.
What if I'm having engine problems, I have priority to get my plane down, no matter how high or low I am.
As others mentioned above, real aircrafts have priority over a drone, and air balloons have priority over drones.
Real aircrafts have to deviate around air balloons.
One thing you can do is purchase a radio listening for incoming or departing traffic for airports, all you have to know is the frequency they use.
That is listed on sectional charts.
also
In the United States, radio frequencies made available by the Federal Communications Commission for use as UNICOM are:
  • 122.700 MHz
  • 122.725 MHz
  • 122.800 MHz
  • 122.950 MHz
  • 122.975 MHz
  • 123.000 MHz
  • 123.050 MHz
  • 123.075 MHz
hope this helps?
 
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But to answer your question, on a normal 3 degree glide slope a GA type plane will be around 2,800 to 3,000 feet from the touchdown zone of a runway when it it is at 400 feet AGL.

HOWEVER, that is not a guarantee. The plane might be higher, or lower. Point is it does not matter, you must remain clear and there is no current 400 foot limit despite what you may think.
Thank you Phaedrus. A simple question, a simple answer. Much appreciated. And, to everyone on the thread, never at anytime was my question due to the need or want to fly near an airport. I would never do that.
 
Good point. And FWIW, while generally not a good idea, a GA pilot can really be at any altitude they think is safe. A towered airport will be a little more strict, but I have seen lots of pilots at smaller airports dragging it in low and slow. So basically you can't count on anything.
 
I'm sorry but I don't believe that.........

You don’t have to believe it.....that’s fine....but you do need to understand it and abide by it. The drone operator must give way to manned aircraft at all times AND must not cause the manned aircraft to take any evasive action as well. We have no right of way at all.
 

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