Draganfly & SAR

[Murray Martz]

A while back I contacted the local SAR that we have here and offered out my services for free to help with SAR. Told them that as a tradesman I control my own hours and can come out and help at a moments notice with searching from the sky. I told them I would be able to help locate lost individuals, cover more ground faster and guide searchers to their location by dropping Cree strobes to the person they are searching for.

After a brief discussion I was told that they would only take my help if I became a member of their SAR and had all of my CPR, first aid and anything else they required to be a member with them. They also said they only do intakes twice a year and currently the next one was 6 months away. I let them know I was not interested in being a member and did not have a desire to renew my first aid and CPR as I was only going to be piloting remotely from a distance and am not involved in the ground search but rather from the air only to guide them......but nope they would not have any of it.

A few weeks after that discussion we had a person go missing in the area in the winter during a car crash. Legally I would not be allowed to do the search as there were first responders out there making it illegal to be in the air near or over them, but another company caught wind of the accident and went out without permission. They did what I would have done. located the person and that was that. The company was Draganfly and they made headlines for doing it. I was not after any glory as Draganfly was after, but merely wanted to do the right thing because it was the right thing to do.

In the video I have posted, again they seek their glory by stating they were the first in the world to find someone using a drone.

They were originally a company that started here in Saskatoon where I live, but have since been sold and moved to the US like all of our good Canadian tech does. And why is that?.....because our gov't and Transport Canada are doing all they can to kill the consumer market in Canada and only allow the "stake holders" (like Draganfly) to eventually operate here.

So sad the way it has become.

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[DoomMeister]

If Remote ID passes as is in the NPRM, you won’t be alone Murray. It will be big business and government (law enforcement and other such entities) that will own the skies. Recreational fliers and small business will be pushed out unless they have the big bucks to fork out for new systems.

Elitist organizations just further this type of mentality and it is a shame when those that wish to help are more or less shunned when they don’t want to wear a mantle.

 

[7cyclops]

Murray. I see your point,Totally.I live next to the Manistee Federal forest,and Nordhouse dune area.I have offerred my services to take the h up and search for people in the park,over 4,000 acres,and runs along lake Mi.The local fire & rescue have said they wish I would help,with the drone,and they don't care about all the politics. Yes if they ever call me I would go but probably wouldn't have any charged batteriesThey have never called as I am sure they have talked about it,privately,and decided they don't want the responsibility.If I was really searching for someone I would not care the consequences.Mason county Sherrif could get a drone up here,but may take a few hours,and when THEY seen me they would probably arrest me. I do not have a 107. Too many rules Iagree,it's not like we would have 17 drones show up immediatly and get into a big mess. Our volunteer FD has maybe 4-6 members left and all are 55+ most are way over 60.None of the young guys around want to deal with the B.S.Nice to be on this Forum,maybe we can come up with the answer,,someday Keep up the good work. Keith C.

 

[Steve Carr]

This is all very familiar. I have extensive training and experience with wilderness emergency medical care and I was a certified instructor for many years. I made the same offer as you to the local SAR folks. I got the "deer in the headlights" look. I offered to do a demonstration as well as show them how the thermal camera works. Just some hand wringing and a polite thanks......"we'll discuss it and let you know".

A couple of years later they got a grant for an Inspire. And several members got their 107. So last summer they had an open house. I loaded up the equipment and drove to their station. Had a brat and chatted with a few guys. Then asked if I could take some aerial video of the procedure they were preparing to demo. They agreed. After I was in the air there were several guys who came over to look at the controller. It was obvious the Inspire had yet to be used even for training.

Bottom line: Most of these groups are a clique and you are considered an outsider. Many are intimidated by technology they have never used. You are, therefor, a threat. The only way to become part of the group is by invitation of a member. You are far more likely to be welcomed if you ask to join so you can learn how they do their job, avoiding any mention of your skills, but a willingness to learn.

 

[7cyclops]

This is all very familiar. I have extensive training and experience with wilderness emergency medical care and I was a certified instructor for many years. I made the same offer as you to the local SAR folks. I got the "deer in the headlights" look. I offered to do a demonstration as well as show them how the thermal camera works. Just some hand wringing and a polite thanks......"we'll discuss it and let you know".

A couple of years later they got a grant for an Inspire. And several members got their 107. So last summer they had an open house. I loaded up the equipment and drove to their station. Had a brat and chatted with a few guys. Then asked if I could take some aerial video of the procedure they were preparing to demo. They agreed. After I was in the air there were several guys who came over to look at the controller. It was obvious the Inspire had yet to be used even for training.

Bottom line: Most of these groups are a clique and you are considered an outsider. Many are intimidated by technology they have never used. You are, therefor, a threat. The only way to become part of the group is by invitation of a member. You are far more likely to be welcomed if you ask to join so you can learn how they do their job, avoiding any mention of your skills, but a willingness to learn.

Right on track here and it's too bad. Lots of us could do a lot of good. I personally know the old fire chief and the new one. Last summer I got permission from [old chief] to fly his farm.He is also the current zoning administrator.I took several 2-4 minute videos of his farm,looked down an old silo,and was quite impressed with some of his crop designs. Soon I will get him a disc made. I bet he will be amazed. Used my h pro at 2-3hundred feet. Had to cross 1600 feet of fields. Good enough for the "GROUP" we will see. I also know the Salvation Army has 2 phanthom 3 I think. No one knows how to fly them,including me cus I wouldn't touch a dji Keith

 

[7cyclops]

A while back I contacted the local SAR that we have here and offered out my services for free to help with SAR. Told them that as a tradesman I control my own hours and can come out and help at a moments notice with searching from the sky. I told them I would be able to help locate lost individuals, cover more ground faster and guide searchers to their location by dropping Cree strobes to the person they are searching for.

After a brief discussion I was told that they would only take my help if I became a member of their SAR and had all of my CPR, first aid and anything else they required to be a member with them. They also said they only do intakes twice a year and currently the next one was 6 months away. I let them know I was not interested in being a member and did not have a desire to renew my first aid and CPR as I was only going to be piloting remotely from a distance and am not involved in the ground search but rather from the air only to guide them......but nope they would not have any of it.

A few weeks after that discussion we had a person go missing in the area in the winter during a car crash. Legally I would not be allowed to do the search as there were first responders out there making it illegal to be in the air near or over them, but another company caught wind of the accident and went out without permission. They did what I would have done. located the person and that was that. The company was Draganfly and they made headlines for doing it. I was not after any glory as Draganfly was after, but merely wanted to do the right thing because it was the right thing to do.

In the video I have posted, again they seek their glory by stating they were the first in the world to find someone using a drone.

They were originally a company that started here in Saskatoon where I live, but have since been sold and moved to the US like all of our good Canadian tech does. And why is that?.....because our gov't and Transport Canada are doing all they can to kill the consumer market in Canada and only allow the "stake holders" (like Draganfly) to eventually operate here.

So sad the way it has become.

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Looks like the 2 cops are ready to shoot the **** thing HEH!!

 

[Murray Martz]

This is all very familiar. I have extensive training and experience with wilderness emergency medical care and I was a certified instructor for many years. I made the same offer as you to the local SAR folks. I got the "deer in the headlights" look. I offered to do a demonstration as well as show them how the thermal camera works. Just some hand wringing and a polite thanks......"we'll discuss it and let you know".

A couple of years later they got a grant for an Inspire. And several members got their 107. So last summer they had an open house. I loaded up the equipment and drove to their station. Had a brat and chatted with a few guys. Then asked if I could take some aerial video of the procedure they were preparing to demo. They agreed. After I was in the air there were several guys who came over to look at the controller. It was obvious the Inspire had yet to be used even for training.

Bottom line: Most of these groups are a clique and you are considered an outsider. Many are intimidated by technology they have never used. You are, therefor, a threat. The only way to become part of the group is by invitation of a member. You are far more likely to be welcomed if you ask to join so you can learn how they do their job, avoiding any mention of your skills, but a willingness to learn.

The saddest part is the one that created the SAR group was a retired Sgt with our police service, and our police service have a Draganfly that they use to reconstruct accidents, so she knows the value of it. As mentioned in another comment, if you are not in their clique (a retired police), or another person that was of similar value to her, you will always JUST be a civilian in her eyes. Funny though, she was a civilian before she became a police officer, and now that she is retired she is a civilian again. I guess she just can't let go of being a person of authority.

Due to all of this, I have been debating forming an aerial SAR for the area. We have a lot of elderly and mentally ill people that go missing weekly here, and the response time is silly.

 

[7cyclops]

The saddest part is the one that created the SAR group was a retired Sgt with our police service, and our police service have a Draganfly that they use to reconstruct accidents, so she knows the value of it. As mentioned in another comment, if you are not in their clique (a retired police), or another person that was of similar value to her, you will always JUST be a civilian in her eyes. Funny though, she was a civilian before she became a police officer, and now that she is retired she is a civilian again. I guess she just can't let go of being a person of authority.

Due to all of this, I have been debating forming an aerial SAR for the area. We have a lot of elderly and mentally ill people that go missing weekly here, and the response time is silly.

could a sar exclusive drone group actually survive and get off the ground. You have a ton of smart people on here. I could not serve our country at the crucial age because I was a Canadian,but finally got the proper papers when I was 25.Had no idea what I was doing but through will and determination Idid it. Point is,since I am retired now I hope to give back to all the veterans I can. Will hopefully be a volunteer Driver for the DAV. Lots of paperwork,almost there.I can thenGIVE!! Enough of all of us could give our drone service also. We can do anything. Maybe we should start a seperate thread,topic on this. The NRA started somewhere. EH!! Keith

 

[Murray Martz]

could a sar exclusive drone group actually survive and get off the ground. You have a ton of smart people on here. I could not serve our country at the crucial age because I was a Canadian,but finally got the proper papers when I was 25.Had no idea what I was doing but through will and determination Idid it. Point is,since I am retired now I hope to give back to all the veterans I can. Will hopefully be a volunteer Driver for the DAV. Lots of paperwork,almost there.I can thenGIVE!! Enough of all of us could give our drone service also. We can do anything. Maybe we should start a seperate thread,topic on this. The NRA started somewhere. EH!! Keith

There is no reason why a service like this can not be done, and frankly there is no way to have it stopped.

 

[PatR]

A couple month ago there was a massive effort to organize and recruit people interested in SAR on one of the site’s sister forums. It seemed that area specific groups had already been formed with the recruitment effort intended more to flesh out regional groups.

I did not join as what I saw resembled much too much what DroneUp did to promote SAR. They used a lot of personal equipment and people to fly missions or review data collected by paid flyers for analysis work. Those performing the work were supposed to log and report the hours expended in their efforts.

I strongly suspect DroneUp was being paid an hourly rate by a “prime” customer to collect and analyze SAR data. If so it was a Tom Sawyer operation in the truest sense. Have others do the work for free while they profit from being the middle man.

 

[7cyclops]

A couple month ago there was a massive effort to organize and recruit people interested in SAR on one of the site’s sister forums. It seemed that area specific groups had already been formed with the recruitment effort intended more to flesh out regional groups.

I did not join as what I saw resembled much too much what DroneUp did to promote SAR. They used a lot of personal equipment and people to fly missions or review data collected by paid flyers for analysis work. Those performing the work were supposed to log and report the hours expended in their efforts.

I strongly suspect DroneUp was being paid an hourly rate by a “prime” customer to collect and analyze SAR data. If so it was a Tom Sawyer operation in the truest sense. Have others do the work for free while they profit from being the middle man.

Hi again. Since we started this thing I have been diligently,searching for anything related to the subject of sar and volunteer,drone laws in Michigan,'that's a funny',along with where u can fly what U can fly for etc.I am sure I will come up with something,,eventually. Keith P.S. WE ,must stick to specifics as Organization, purpose, mission, and outcome. No B.S. no money no affiliation etc. Find em, and go home. K.C.

 

[DoomMeister]

Hi again. Since we started this thing I have been diligently,searching for anything related to the subject of sar and volunteer,drone laws in Michigan,'that's a funny',along with where u can fly what U can fly for etc.I am sure I will come up with something,,eventually. Keith P.S. WE ,must stick to specifics as Organization, purpose, mission, and outcome. No B.S. no money no affiliation etc. Find em, and go home. K.C.

Since you are not flying for fun you need a 107 certification or be covered under a 333 waiver/exemption (which already has to be in existence for an emergency response organization as they are no longer given out AFAIK). Studying for the 107 and testing is not the problem. Forking our $150 to get the rating so you can volunteer your time and services is. If you are getting the rating for volunteer work, the fee should be waived. Such is the way of farming out things to third party contractors for administering tests.

 

[7cyclops]

Since you are not flying for fun you need a 107 certification or be covered under a 333 waiver/exemption (which already has to be in existence for an emergency response organization as they are no longer given out AFAIK). Studying for the 107 and testing is not the problem. Forking our $150 to get the rating so you can volunteer your time and services is. If you are getting the rating for volunteer work, the fee should be waived. Such is the way of farming out things to third party contractors for administering tests.

looks like I will be studyind all aspects of the 333 waiver/exemption. I did see stuff about this,to save. Wondering if this [or what would] could be a blanket permit or need to be filed by the local sars,which happens to be our local volunteer fire dept. Nice If operator had some kind of permit and all we had to do was file a flight report.I could have the wife do this while I was burning up the asphalt trying to get there. Keith

 

[Airyal]

could a sar exclusive drone group actually survive and get off the ground. You have a ton of smart people on here. I could not serve our country at the crucial age because I was a Canadian,but finally got the proper papers when I was 25.Had no idea what I was doing but through will and determination Idid it. Point is,since I am retired now I hope to give back to all the veterans I can. Will hopefully be a volunteer Driver for the DAV. Lots of paperwork,almost there.I can thenGIVE!! Enough of all of us could give our drone service also. We can do anything. Maybe we should start a seperate thread,topic on this. The NRA started somewhere. EH!! Keith

Be prepared to encounter opposition of a bureaucratic nature. I am reminded of movies where the sheriff forms a posse to go after the bad guys. He must first officially swear them in. In the case of SAR groups they have some official status from county of states states that authorizes their services. They fear outside help because if successful, it may undermine their "special" status. Forming unsanctioned SAS-like groups will be seen by some as a sort of do-gooder vigilantism. Remember Paul Kersey (Charles Bronson)? Doing the Right Thing (helping to find a missing person) has its obstacles these days.

 

[7cyclops]

Be prepared to encounter opposition of a bureaucratic nature. I am reminded of movies where the sheriff forms a posse to go after the bad guys. He must first officially swear them in. In the case of SAR groups they have some official status from county of states states that authorizes their services. They fear outside help because if successful, it may undermine their "special" status. Forming unsanctioned SAS-like groups will be seen by some as a sort of do-gooder vigilantism. Remember Paul Kersey (Charles Bronson)? Doing the Right Thing (helping to find a missing person) has its obstacles these days.

Fly and run,as we sometimes do.