Looking to mess up a perfectly good ST16.

[WTFDproject]

The goal is to fly a Q500 with an ST16, and have it fully functional.

If I just bind a Typhoon H “Model” to a Q500, it has these shortcomings:
1.) Reduced video quality in “CGo3” camera mode. (480p vs. 720p, lots of “artifacts”.)
2.) No access to “CG03 PRO” features (displays “camera is not match” error, and will not display video, or allow any access to camera functions.)
3.) Nice, pretty Q500 Logo on the model (yeah, that one is pretty trivial).

I cut the camera portion out of the latest TH firmware update, and updated the CGo3 as a standalone update. The video cleared up. However, it still will not allow access to “CGo3 Pro” features. (Also, I haven’t done any real testing to see if anything else is messed up. Looks good for now.)

This is about the limit of what I know, and going beyond is guess work. My current “guess” is that the “Model” profile MAY have something in it that will allow the “CGo3 Pro” features when using a CGo3 camera on an ST16/Q500 combination. Hence, here is my question;
Does anyone know of a way to copy a Q500 “Model” from an ST10+, and load it onto an ST16?

(I wonder how much this is going to cost me when I have to ship it to KAV to clean up my mess.)

 

[DCH]

In the words of Capt. James T Kirk, You are going where no man has gone before!
That would be a cool setup, I hope you meet with success.
Hold on a sec, don't start yet, let me grab some popcorn and drink first!
...Darn this is going to be good! ?

 

[ChuckBridges]

If at first you don't succeed, ship it off, get it back and try again (Could get expensive but, now you have my curiosity up.) If I hadn't decided to give Ray my 4K, I would have a vested interest as carrying one controller would be nice.

 

[WTFDproject]

I've been informed the original ST16, (with the earlier firmware?) already had the Q500 as a model. The ST16 (at least the newer models) has "model export". Does anyone have an ST16 with the Q500 still on it, and if so, could you upload the file here?
To export from ST16 to a PC, I had to copy the exported firmware into another ST16 directory that is visible to the PC. You will probably have to do something similar.

 

[dylanfm]

The goal is to fly a Q500 with an ST16, and have it fully functional.

If I just bind a Typhoon H “Model” to a Q500, it has these shortcomings:
1.) Reduced video quality in “CGo3” camera mode. (480p vs. 720p, lots of “artifacts”.)
2.) No access to “CG03 PRO” features (displays “camera is not match” error, and will not display video, or allow any access to camera functions.)
3.) Nice, pretty Q500 Logo on the model (yeah, that one is pretty trivial).

I cut the camera portion out of the latest TH firmware update, and updated the CGo3 as a standalone update. The video cleared up. However, it still will not allow access to “CGo3 Pro” features. (Also, I haven’t done any real testing to see if anything else is messed up. Looks good for now.)

This is about the limit of what I know, and going beyond is guess work. My current “guess” is that the “Model” profile MAY have something in it that will allow the “CGo3 Pro” features when using a CGo3 camera on an ST16/Q500 combination. Hence, here is my question;
Does anyone know of a way to copy a Q500 “Model” from an ST10+, and load it onto an ST16?

(I wonder how much this is going to cost me when I have to ship it to KAV to clean up my mess.)

I'm confused as to what problem you are currently having. Are you saying that you installed a CGO3+ (or Pro) camera on your Q500 and it wont connect to your ST16? Or you are trying to connect to your CGO3 camera as if it was a CGO3 Pro (or +)? That won't work the CGO3 and CGO3+ are different cameras.

The ability of the CGO3+ to connect to the ST16 is independent of whether it is attached to a Q500 or TH. I have connected to the CG03+ from a ST16 and ST10+ while the camera was attached to a DJI phantom 2. If you apply power to the camera you should be able to connect to it from ST16. I don't think the camera pan control will ever work while attached to the Q500, but the tilt should. You are right that you may need a custom model to make it fly right and have all the controls work properly, but the "camera is not a match" error is some other issue I think.

Dylan.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

In the words of Capt. James T Kirk, You are going where no man has gone before!
That would be a cool setup, I hope you meet with success.
Hold on a sec, don't start yet, let me grab some popcorn and drink first!
...Darn this is going to be good! ?

Sounds interesting to me as well even though I would never attempt something like that.

 

[WTFDproject]

I'm confused as to what problem you are currently having.

No. I am simply trying to fly a Q500 4K, with standard CG03 camera, on an ST16 controller.
It is easy to do in general, except the CGo3 will not work in the CGo3 PRO mode. Note the "CGo3 pro mode" is not to be equated with "CG03+ camera". It is simply unlocking the advanced features of the CGo3. At least that was the way it was with the Q500/ST10/CGo3 combination. Since the existing TH model on the ST16 will not allow basic CGo3 mode when a CGo3+ is mounted, I have to consider if Yuneec altered some programming.
I've done a lot of "mix, match and take notes" combinations. Two models of drones (Q500/Th), two controllers (ST10/ST16), two models of camera (CGo3, CG03+) and two versions of firmware on the CGo3 (CGo3 and CGo3+) produced a LOT of possible combinations. The only combinations (so far) that will allow both standard CGo3 mode and CGo3 PRO mode on a standard CGo3 camera is the original Q500/ST10+/CGo3. That is why I am interested in the original ST16 firmware that included the Q500 drone as a standard model.

I have two reasons for flying a Q500 on an ST16.
One is simply to use only one controller.
The other is to have access to channel settings for the Q500. That part works fine, with nothing other than binding the Q500 to an existing Th Model on the ST16.

The only real downside of binding the Q500 to a standard TH model on the ST16 is that the ST16 limits the CGo3 to basic camera functions. (And it has bad on-screen video quality if you don't update the camera software. Updating the camera software was a little flakey, but it worked to restore on-screen video quality.)

 

[dylanfm]

No. I am simply trying to fly a Q500 4K, with standard CG03 camera, on an ST16 controller.
It is easy to do in general, except the CGo3 will not work in the CGo3 PRO mode. Note the "CGo3 pro mode" is not to be equated with "CG03+ camera". It is simply unlocking the advanced features of the CGo3. At least that was the way it was with the Q500/ST10/CGo3 combination. Since the existing TH model on the ST16 will not allow basic CGo3 mode when a CGo3+ is mounted, I have to consider if Yuneec altered some programming.
I've done a lot of "mix, match and take notes" combinations. Two models of drones (Q500/Th), two controllers (ST10/ST16), two models of camera (CGo3, CG03+) and two versions of firmware on the CGo3 (CGo3 and CGo3+) produced a LOT of possible combinations. The only combinations (so far) that will allow both standard CGo3 mode and CGo3 PRO mode on a standard CGo3 camera is the original Q500/ST10+/CGo3. That is why I am interested in the original ST16 firmware that included the Q500 drone as a standard model.

I have two reasons for flying a Q500 on an ST16.
One is simply to use only one controller.
The other is to have access to channel settings for the Q500. That part works fine, with nothing other than binding the Q500 to an existing Th Model on the ST16.

The only real downside of binding the Q500 to a standard TH model on the ST16 is that the ST16 limits the CGo3 to basic camera functions. (And it has bad on-screen video quality if you don't update the camera software. Updating the camera software was a little flakey, but it worked to restore on-screen video quality.)

Ok. I see that on an ST10+ you can select either the CGO3 or CGOPro for the CGO3 camera. Based on what I have read, I don't believe that is the case for the ST16. I believe that the CGO3 Pro is only for the CGO3+. This makes some sense because each camera type that you can select on there has a configuration XML associated with it so they probably set xml for the CGO3 pro to configure the CGO3+ on the ST16. Unfortunately those XML file don't seem to be able to be modified.

Seems like it would be easy enough to test. Can you put the CGO3 on the the TH and connect to it as a CGO3 Pro?

Like a said before, I am pretty sure that model file doesn't control the camera configuration. That could partially also be tested by unbinding the Q500 from the ST10, then only bind the camera if it lets you select either the CGO3 or the CGO3 pro without the Q500 even bound I think that it makes it less likely that the model controls the camera config. Then again, changing the "type" value in the model files from 401 to 403 changes it from thinking it is a model for a TH and a tornado 920 which enables additional mapping features, so maybe if we knew the type value for a Q500 it would change how the camera works.

 

[h-elsner]

The potential of the ST16 was wasted by Yuneec. I don't know why. In the beginning they said the ST16 will developed to do more with it i.e. control fixed wing using channel settings. But later on nothing was done and the support for other models was limited. There are leftovers in the firmware.
As simple example the vehicle types:

    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_350QX_NAME = "350QX";
    public static final int VEHICLE_TYPE_380QX = 4;
    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_380QX_NAME = "380QX";
    public static final int VEHICLE_TYPE_480 = 5;
    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_480_NAME = "TyphoonH";
    public static final int VEHICLE_TYPE_520 = 7;
    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_520_NAME = "TyphoonH+";
    public static final int VEHICLE_TYPE_H920 = 1;
    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_H920_NAME = "H920";
    public static final int VEHICLE_TYPE_H920_PLUS = 6;
    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_H920_PLUS_NAME = "H920+";
    public static final int VEHICLE_TYPE_Q500 = 2;
    public static final String VEHICLE_TYPE_Q500_NAME = "Q500";

Chroma is called 380QX here.
Vehicle type 6 and 7 later on never used. H Plus got Vehicle type 5 too, H920+ got 1 - weird.

The newer firmware has many limitations and check that prevents us to use the ST16 for other models. I have tried the Blade 350QX. It can be bound and also fly but there are many annoying error messages on the screen you have to ignore.

But there are also good news:
With channel settings you can do a lot more for the Q500. I got a model from a very experienced friend that gives us back the Stability flight mode (Blue mode) from the 350QX or Chroma for the Q500. RTH is moved to the landing gear switch.
See ST16 als RC - Stability Mode - Drohnen-Forum.de - Quadrocopter, Multicopter und FPV
Model can be downloaded at #10. Use it on your own risk (as usual). But still the CGO3PRO (which has more possibilities for Cam settings compared to the CGO3 model) cannot be used. I think there is no way to overcome the firmware build in compatibility checks.

Remark: Blus mode (or Stability) means, you have the same behaviour like without GPS (More speed, more rate, more resposibility on the sticks) but you keep RTH and the position stability per GPS will take part after a delay of 1-2s if you let the sticks alone. If you take back the control via stick movement it will cancel GPS support and drift with the wind and react fast and direct to the sticks.
From my point of view the best flight mode Yuneec ever made. Of course not good for smooth videos, but good for fun.

br HE

 

[WTFDproject]

I am pretty sure that model file doesn't control the camera configuration. That could partially also be tested by unbinding the Q500 from the ST10, then only bind the camera if it lets you select either the CGO3 or the CGO3 pro without the Q500 even bound I think that it makes it less likely that the model controls the camera config. Then again, changing the "type" value in the model files from 401 to 403 changes it from thinking it is a model for a TH and a tornado 920 which enables additional mapping features, so maybe if we knew the type value for a Q500 it would change how the camera works.

You were correct. Binding the camera, but not the drone, resulted in the same results as when the drone was bound. I also tried messing with the "type" values, and got nowhere. The ST16 does not want to recognize the exported model after you have altered any of the files, other than the ICON.JPG. (I might be able to get around that, but it's too late to keep working tonight.)

At least it turned out to be a no-brainer for changing the Icon. Export the model, pick pretty much any JPG you want, rename it "icon.jpg", copy it into the exported model, re-import it, and you have your nice pretty icon. Which is pretty meaningless if you can't use the best features of the camera.

Here are some of the other combinations I tried. Based on the concurring information from @h-elsner, this is probably not revealing anything except I'm looking in the wrong place for the solution.

 

[WTFDproject]

The newer firmware has many limitations and check that prevents us to use the ST16 for other models.

Thanks for all the information. Some of it gives ideas to pursue a little further, but I think the bottom line will eventually be as you stated. Yuneec has done a good job of ensuring that if you want to use their ST16, you also have to buy the drones and cameras they want you to buy. Seems to be the philosophy of all the major manufacturers now days.

Do you know if the original ST16 firmware, which provided a Q500 model, would allow use of the CGo3 in the "Cgo3 Pro" mode?
That probably doesn't matter, since I don't believe you can downgrade the firmware, but it would be interesting to know.

 

[Mwallace8343]

The goal is to fly a Q500 with an ST16, and have it fully functional.

If I just bind a Typhoon H “Model” to a Q500, it has these shortcomings:
1.) Reduced video quality in “CGo3” camera mode. (480p vs. 720p, lots of “artifacts”.)
2.) No access to “CG03 PRO” features (displays “camera is not match” error, and will not display video, or allow any access to camera functions.)
3.) Nice, pretty Q500 Logo on the model (yeah, that one is pretty trivial).

I cut the camera portion out of the latest TH firmware update, and updated the CGo3 as a standalone update. The video cleared up. However, it still will not allow access to “CGo3 Pro” features. (Also, I haven’t done any real testing to see if anything else is messed up. Looks good for now.)

This is about the limit of what I know, and going beyond is guess work. My current “guess” is that the “Model” profile MAY have something in it that will allow the “CGo3 Pro” features when using a CGo3 camera on an ST16/Q500 combination. Hence, here is my question;
Does anyone know of a way to copy a Q500 “Model” from an ST10+, and load it onto an ST16?

(I wonder how much this is going to cost me when I have to ship it to KAV to clean up my mess.)

A man after my on heart!! Another Edison in the making!! LMAO

 

[h-elsner]

Do you know if the original ST16 firmware, which provided a Q500 model, would allow use of the CGo3 in the "Cgo3 Pro" mode?

No, unfortunately not. But the fragments from history are still in the latest firmware. The funniest thing is that it is also in the ST16S controller firmware but this complete part is not used and replaced by Yuneec-App-Release.apk. Leftovers wherever you look.
In the ST16S the Channel settings are removed. Another step to limit usage of the radio controller. Hmmm...

One workaround could be to make all enhanced settings with the CGO3 app in the phone and after that go flying in non-pro mode with the CGO3.

br HE

 

[WTFDproject]

One workaround could be to make all enhanced settings with the CGO3 app in the phone and after that go flying in non-pro mode with the CGO3.

That is similar to what I did this morning. I did the camera settings an ST10, then bound it to the ST16 to take some pictures. Seemed to work, the pictures looked pretty good, but I was not at very challenging settings.

I am trying to get into the ST10 programming with "Remix OS", but no success yet. Neither the USB port on the side of the controller, or what MAY be a programming port on the side of the FC board are showing any connection to the ST10 Android system. I originally thought it was a USB driver issue in Remix, but I think not. I think I just do not know where/how to connect to the actual android system. Will try again later using the FC board "port", and setting the Android system to perhaps allow access. I am not even sure it is a programmers port. The connector on the FC board fits the connector on the Q500 GUI cable. That is the only thing causing me to suspect it is a programmers port, and that is not really much to go on. That GUI connector fits many things that have nothing to do with programming.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

Thanks for all the information. Some of it gives ideas to pursue a little further, but I think the bottom line will eventually be as you stated. Yuneec has done a good job of ensuring that if you want to use their ST16, you also have to buy the drones and cameras they want you to buy. Seems to be the philosophy of all the major manufacturers now days.

Do you know if the original ST16 firmware, which provided a Q500 model, would allow use of the CGo3 in the "Cgo3 Pro" mode?
That probably doesn't matter, since I don't believe you can downgrade the firmware, but it would be interesting to know.

Yep
The manufacturers control it

 

[hendrik14570]

I'm confused as to what problem you are currently having. Are you saying that you installed a CGO3+ (or Pro) camera on your Q500 and it wont connect to your ST16? Or you are trying to connect to your CGO3 camera as if it was a CGO3 Pro (or +)? That won't work the CGO3 and CGO3+ are different cameras.

The ability of the CGO3+ to connect to the ST16 is independent of whether it is attached to a Q500 or TH. I have connected to the CG03+ from a ST16 and ST10+ while the camera was attached to a DJI phantom 2. If you apply power to the camera you should be able to connect to it from ST16. I don't think the camera pan control will ever work while attached to the Q500, but the tilt should. You are right that you may need a custom model to make it fly right and have all the controls work properly, but the "camera is not a match" error is some other issue I think.

Dylan.

Is their a difference between cgo3+ And 3CGO pro?

 

[Fred Garvin]

I “think” the CGO3+ is for the H and has different voltage plus spins 360. The “Pro” on the CGO3 is just a Mode you select on the ST10 that gives more camera control.

Maybe @WTFDproject will chime in......

 

[dylanfm]

I “think” the CGO3+ is for the H and has different voltage plus spins 360. The “Pro” on the CGO3 is just a Mode you select on the ST10 that gives more camera control.

Maybe @WTFDproject will chime in......

I think that on the ST16 the CGO3 is for connecting to the CGO3 camera and the CGO3 Pro is for connecting to the CGO3+. That is what I have read. I have always used the CGO3 Pro camera type selection to connect to my CGO3+ cameras and I don't have any CGO3 cameras to test.

 

[h-elsner]

CGO3 and CGO3+ are different camera/gimbal HW types.
Items CGO3 and CGO3PRO are definitions in the firmware to identify two different possibility to control the camera.
Item CGO3 has basic controls for photo/video dummies like me, item CGO3PRO has a lot more controls for the cam for (semi) professionals like white balance, shutter and so on.

Looks like firmware item CGO3 has less checks against firmware status of the camera than item CGO3PRO. Why, I don't know.

To dive deeper in SW/FW of ST10 the source code of flightmode.apk is available on GitHub:

GitHub - azvampyre/st10-v01b31c: Yuneec st10+v01b31c

Yuneec st10+v01b31c. Contribute to azvampyre/st10-v01b31c development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

br HE

 

[WTFDproject]

Summary:
It does not require any special efforts to simply fly a Q500(x) on an ST16. The ST16 already has the Q500 settings installed at the factory. Simply choose an existing TH model, bind the Q500 to that model, and the ST16 will make the necessary adjustments. This can be verified by the “motor fail” symbol near the upper right of your screen . It will change from a TH Hex to a Q500 Quad emblem. In this mode, your CGo3 camera will only operate in the basic CGO3 camera selection mode, with no CGO3-PRO camera features available. If you want to change the camera settings, you will have to use the smartphone APP, or carry along an ST10 just for camera settings. (The smartphone app works fine, but doesn’t have much range for changing settings)

Earlier CGo3 camera firmware does not work well with the ST16 onscreen display. Lots of breakup and artifacts. Upgrading to the latest CGo3 firmware will clear up almost all artifacts.

If you want a model icon that looks like a Q500, use one of the model files contained in the ZIP file below. The files are the same, except one has a white Q500 icon, the other has a dark Q500 4K icon. You can substitute another JPG file for the icon as desired. Download the zip file, extract the zip file, then copy the "Exported-Models" directory to a clean formatted SD card. Put the SD card in the ST16 and use the normal process to Import a Model File.

To get CGO3-PRO features directly on the ST16 is apparently more complicated than I hoped. I did it “low tech” by substituting the camera board from a CGo3+ camera into the CG03 camera. Works fine, it’s just not practical. I have not been successful upgrading CGo3 camera firmware to CGo3+ camera firmware. Not sure why, but can’t get it to work. (The boards are essentially the same. In fact, one of the boards I tried to upgrade actually IS a CGo3+ camera board. Someone else had changed its firmware to CGo3, but I can’t get even this one to change back to CGo3+.)

The advanced ST16 flight mode features do not appear to be functional when bound to a Q500. The only one I tried was CCC. The menus appear, and all looks normal, except it will not record any waypoints. I also created a simple test route using a TH, then tried to follow it with a Q500. Q500 did not respond. I’ll update if I can come up with a way to make this work, but it does not appear that it will be available.