Low battery warning altitude change

[Atomic08]

Hello All....
I was filming our local fireworks with my Typhoon H (third time filming Fireworks).
I was in Angle Mode and took it up to 450 ft and let it sit while filming the firework, no wind, and occasionally just moved the camera angle. LED lights off.
I got the first low battery warning, and then tapped the screen to turn off the warning.
The typhoon H then lowered its altitude to 249 feet.
Not 240, not 250, right to 249 feet.
My return to home altitude is set to 160.
I tried to make it go back to 400 feet, but it would not go back up.
I could go left, right, back and forward, down but could not get it back above 249 feet!
Landed and turned everything off and replaced the battery and took off and back to 400 feet.
Lost filming about 10 minutes of the fireworks.
Again when the low battery warning came on, the Typhoon lowered itself to 249 feet.
I looked for settings for low battery warning but can not find something for low battery warning settings. Where would I look for these setting?
This is the third time I have filmed fireworks and have never had this happen before.
Even when I just fly around I have never had this happen, or just have never noticed it.
I am going to go out later today and try it in the daylight and see if it repeats the lowering altitude.
Any Ideas Why this is happening?
Thanks

 

[Dustoff]

on the first battery warning the H limits the max altitude you can be at , not sure of the exact altitude though.

BTW . pretty Unresponsible to be flying at night and with no lights on .

 

[Atomic08]

on the first battery warning the H limits the max altitude you can be at , not sure of the exact altitude though.
Where did you hear that?

BTW . pretty Unresponsible to be flying at night and with no lights on .

I figured I'd get flamed by someone...
When the LEDs are off, the blue Angle light on the rear is still on..
Also our property is large and borders the park where it fireworks are held.
The drone was nowhere near people and completely over our land.
Not my first rodeo!

 

[PatR]

I had similar thoughts as the respondent after reading your original post but elected not to reply until after you felt you were being flamed.

You’re not being flamed, others are simply trying to protect our hobby and have you fly more responsibly. 450’ at night, flying through a low battery warning and attempting to gain more altitude after that warning are indicative of a reckless operator. Included in that should be failing to understand how your system works. If you’ve made the videos with an intent to obtain consideration or posted them on You Tube where you can obtain ad revenue from click counts you are a commercial operation, require a 107 certification, required a night waiver from the FAA before conducting the flight and were required to have nav and strobe lights visible for 3 miles. Any of what was mentioned previously could subject you to many thousands of $$ in fines had you not been compliant.

As you stated this was not your first rodeo there is the implication you operate in this manner frequently. It’s not our fault if you put out the rope, put your neck into the noose, and jump off whatever you were standing on. You hung yourself, while providing cause for authorities to impose more restrictions and regulations on our activities. You are not an island and your actions can impact us all.

Hopefully you got some good shots for the effort.

 

[Deleted member 13635]

Like what you stated PatR. Way to many "cowboys" out there flying.

 

[Atomic08]

I had similar thoughts as the respondent after reading your original post but elected not to reply until after you felt you were being flamed.

You’re not being flamed, others are simply trying to protect our hobby and have you fly more responsibly. 450’ at night, flying through a low battery warning and attempting to gain more altitude after that warning are indicative of a reckless operator. Included in that should be failing to understand how your system works. If you’ve made the videos with an intent to obtain consideration or posted them on You Tube where you can obtain ad revenue from click counts you are a commercial operation, require a 107 certification, required a night waiver from the FAA before conducting the flight and were required to have nav and strobe lights visible for 3 miles. Any of what was mentioned previously could subject you to many thousands of $$ in fines had you not been compliant.

As you stated this was not your first rodeo there is the implication you operate in this manner frequently. It’s not our fault if you put out the rope, put your neck into the noose, and jump off whatever you were standing on. You hung yourself, while providing cause for authorities to impose more restrictions and regulations on our activities. You are not an island and your actions can impact us all.

Hopefully you got some good shots for the effort.

Pat..
I respect your concerns and am aware of of the guidelines...
Had permissions from the fireworks company and town officials.....
Main reasons for the flight again....
Now...
can you possible take time to try and answer my question
on why the typhoon H descended when the battery warning came on?

 

[Dustoff]

Or to ,en

I had similar thoughts as the respondent after reading your original post but elected not to reply until after you felt you were being flamed.

You’re not being flamed, others are simply trying to protect our hobby and have you fly more responsibly. 450’ at night, flying through a low battery warning and attempting to gain more altitude after that warning are indicative of a reckless operator. Included in that should be failing to understand how your system works. If you’ve made the videos with an intent to obtain consideration or posted them on You Tube where you can obtain ad revenue from click counts you are a commercial operation, require a 107 certification, required a night waiver from the FAA before conducting the flight and were required to have nav and strobe lights visible for 3 miles. Any of what was mentioned previously could subject you to many thousands of $$ in fines had you not been compliant.

As you stated this was not your first rodeo there is the implication you operate in this manner frequently. It’s not our fault if you put out the rope, put your neck into the noose, and jump off whatever you were standing on. You hung yourself, while providing cause for authorities to impose more restrictions and regulations on our activities. You are not an island and your actions can impact us all.

Hopefully you got some good shots for the effort.

Well said , was not meant to flame but just to point out that that was not a safe act . During our fireworks show there where two idiots flying drones to get fireworks shots . One drone got hit by the fireworks and made it safely to to the ground the other one was not so lucky and was drifting away uncontrollably and crashed . There where two private planes flying to get get shots of the show and both drones where hard to see and in the same flight path of the plane (which was legal)

Flying at night (not your first time ) ...against FAA rules
Above 400 ‘ above ground level .against FAA rules

Above your property or not you have to consider the air space above you and where you are flying and conditions .

Not to flame but everyone’s actions flying drones have far reaching actions to others. See too many you tube videos of idiots with drones and wonder why the FAA and other authorities Have us under a microscope right now .

 

[Dustoff]

Pat..
I respect your concerns and am aware of of the guidelines...
Had permissions from the fireworks company and town officials.....
Main reasons for the flight again....
Now...
can you possible take time to try and answer my question
on why the typhoon H descended when the battery warning came on?

Becuse that’s what the typhoon H is programmed to do . It restricts your altitude with the first battery warning , in fact the warning itself tells you that.

 

[Deleted member 13635]

Doesn't make any difference if it's your land or not. The airspace above it is governed by the FAA rules, which you ignored.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Hello All....
I was filming our local fireworks with my Typhoon H (third time filming Fireworks).
I was in Angle Mode and took it up to 450 ft and let it sit while filming the firework, no wind, and occasionally just moved the camera angle. LED lights off.
I got the first low battery warning, and then tapped the screen to turn off the warning.
The typhoon H then lowered its altitude to 249 feet.
Not 240, not 250, right to 249 feet.
My return to home altitude is set to 160.
I tried to make it go back to 400 feet, but it would not go back up.
I could go left, right, back and forward, down but could not get it back above 249 feet!

Just a thought here...

Let's hypothesize that the Typhoon does not have this annoying height restriction behavior and you did climb back to 400 feet... at that point you would likely already be reaching the second battery warning... with about 30 seconds of flight left, and it initiates auto-land.

Given that scenario and the known characteristics of the H's slower descent rate, at what height would your H be at, when it loses all power and allows gravity to autonomously complete your RTL procedures?

 

[PatR]

Pat..
I respect your concerns and am aware of of the guidelines...
Had permissions from the fireworks company and town officials.....
Main reasons for the flight again....
Now...
can you possible take time to try and answer my question
on why the typhoon H descended when the battery warning came on?

Thanks for adding you had obtained permissions. That changes the perception of your operational practices considerably. I know it’s a pain to include stuff in posts we think might not be needed but doing so often will have a lot of impact on how a post is received by others. Those little “oh, by the way” things can be pretty important.

As for the altitude thing, Yuneec puts an altitude limiter in their low voltages alert system. Some systems, like the 920, display the reduced altitude when the warning is triggered. For that model I believe the max is 60m once the first warning is triggered and it will descend to that if above and not rise above if below.

The purpose of that is an attempt to assure there is enough battery remaining to safely land under full control, and not fall out of the sky due to excessively low voltage levels. Those that fly to the second low voltage warning are at high risk of having that happen. As the aircraft requires a minimum voltage level for all the different functions to work correctly the battery needs to maintain enough juice to step the input voltage down for the other systems to operate. If the input level is too low those systems can cause failure by reducing the available current needed to power the ESC’s and draw down a low battery very quickly. The physical properties of a lipo are such that voltage degradation is not a constant rate. At a certain point a lipo drops voltage rapidly (it’s often called a “knee”) and that’s not where you want to be if the aircraft is high.

Ultimately, view the low voltage altitude limiter as being there to save you money[emoji6]

 

[PatR]

Dustoff,

The published rules are different for recreational and commercial operators. A recreational flyer can fly at night without FAA approval, and can exceed 400’ day or night in many areas. This is not so for commercial operators as they are more restricted. IMHO, exactly opposite of how things should be.

 

[Dustoff]

Dustoff,

The published rules are different for recreational and commercial operators. A recreational flyer can fly at night without FAA approval, and can exceed 400’ day or night in many areas. This is not so for commercial operators as they are more restricted. IMHO, exactly opposite of how things should be.

• Follow community-based safety guidelines and fly within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization

Most if not all these guidelines prohibit night flight with out a collision avoidance light.
Most prohibit above 400 ‘



What community based organization are you a member of .

 

[PatR]

Was an AMA member for over 30 years, a group that still flies at night and above 400’. Dropped my membership last year and nothing has changed since then.

Several of the AMA supported competition classes routinely fly above 400’. Soaring, thermal duration, precision aerobatics, giant scale aerobatics, RC jets, free flight, to name just a few, and I’ve been an active participant in several of them.

Organized night flights are often quite entertaining, and AMA membership is often required to participate.

Read that AMA 400’ advisory again more closely. Note where they find it most applicable.

Multirotor operators more often than not violate AMA safety guidelines the moment they launch their aircraft as they don’t use a defined separation between spectators and flight operations. It’s for that reason the AMA insurance will rarely cover a modeling incident involving a multirotor, and one of the two reasons I dropped membership.

A complete list of official AMA documents can be found here: Academy of Model Aeronautics - New AMA Documents The document you want to reference, Official National Model Aircraft Safety Code, is #105. Additional references to flight safety can be found in publication #100, AMA Safety Handbook, on page/section 3, and document #540-F, Operation of sUAS in the National Airspace System.

If the 400' limit you reference is associated with the "gentleman's agreement" incorporated into the FAA's sUAS registration process we might want to consider going over that with an attorney before twice checking the agreement box. I am very interested in how long it would hold up in court as an enforceable violation if 400' was exceeded by a recreational modeler. That restriction is not incorporated as a blanket altitude cap in Public Law 112-95, Part 336, Title 49 CFR . However, it is mandated in Part 107 pertaining to commercial operators, with some caveats permitting higher flight when associated with tall structures.

As modelers we are bound by Part 101 of Title 14 (https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2...FR-2018-title14-vol2-part101.xml#seqnum101.43) but to save time the actual text of that portion of applicable law is copied and pasted here:

Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft
Source:
Docket FAA-2015-0150, Amdt. 101-9, 81 FR 42208, June 28, 2016, unless otherwise noted.

§ 101.41
Applicability.
This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:
(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.

§ 101.43
Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.
No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.

 

[Atomic08]

Thanks for adding you had obtained permissions. That changes the perception of your operational practices considerably. I know it’s a pain to include stuff in posts we think might not be needed but doing so often will have a lot of impact on how a post is received by others. Those little “oh, by the way” things can be pretty important.

As for the altitude thing, Yuneec puts an altitude limiter in their low voltages alert system. Some systems, like the 920, display the reduced altitude when the warning is triggered. For that model I believe the max is 60m once the first warning is triggered and it will descend to that if above and not rise above if below.

The purpose of that is an attempt to assure there is enough battery remaining to safely land under full control, and not fall out of the sky due to excessively low voltage levels. Those that fly to the second low voltage warning are at high risk of having that happen. As the aircraft requires a minimum voltage level for all the different functions to work correctly the battery needs to maintain enough juice to step the input voltage down for the other systems to operate. If the input level is too low those systems can cause failure by reducing the available current needed to power the ESC’s and draw down a low battery very quickly. The physical properties of a lipo are such that voltage degradation is not a constant rate. At a certain point a lipo drops voltage rapidly (it’s often called a “knee”) and that’s not where you want to be if the aircraft is high.

Ultimately, view the low voltage altitude limiter as being there to save you money[emoji6]

Pat...
Thanks for taking the time to explain the low voltage warning...
In my two plus years with the H, I have never seen the altitude warning about lowering its altitude.
I looked in the owners manual and online and I could't find any photos of the warning on the screen.
Usually when I fly, I use return to home when the warning notice comes on and I have never noticed the altitude change..
so this was new to me.
I did go out this after noon and flew to get the warning and it did lower altitude whn the warning was displayed
I did a screen shot so others can see what it says.
(Mine lowered to 249 ft, not 197...maybe at the second warning it goes to 197, I did not try it,)

Also thanks for understanding about my permissions, like I said, it was not my first rodeo!
I was mainly concerned about the altitude problem, and didn't explain "the...Oh buy the way " details.
You are correct in the way things are perceived.
Happy Flying !
Rick

 

[PatR]

Rick,

RTH works a little differently. More about that in a moment. Yuneec is woefully deficient where providing important info in their manuals is concerned. I know of no place in the H manual where it describes low voltage protocols.

With RTH we either establish a desired RTH height or accept the default setting. With either condition, when RTH is triggered the H will immediately rise to the RTH height if it had been below that height, or remain at the flight altitude if it had been flying above the set RTH height. It will not descend from higher to a lower RTH height until the aircraft reaches the home location.

So the protocols between RTH and low voltage are very different. And thanks for accepting my left handed apology.

 

[Atomic08]

Rick,

RTH works a little differently. More about that in a moment. Yuneec is woefully deficient where providing important info in their manuals is concerned. I know of no place in the H manual where it describes low voltage protocols.

With RTH we either establish a desired RTH height or accept the default setting. With either condition, when RTH is triggered the H will immediately rise to the RTH height if it had been below that height, or remain at the flight altitude if it had been flying above the set RTH height. It will not descend from higher to a lower RTH height until the aircraft reaches the home location.

So the protocols between RTH and low voltage are very different. And thanks for accepting my left handed apology.

Pat...
I was aware of the RTH and how it works..and how to set the RTH heights.. but never paid attention to the low battery features.
I learned something today !
....and no apology's needed...
Been a forum member for a while and am aware of your helpful insightes !

 

[PatR]

As I don’t run H batteries down to the warning level I don’t know what the actual altitude restrictions are for the H. The pop up low V warning may depict that altitude value. If you get there again, note if it is displayed and post it here. Others may already know and could post that value should they desire,

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

It's been a bit since I ran down to the warning level, but if I remember it was set at 66 M... which, since I have chosen Imperial as my default measurement, is strange in and of itself.

 

[PatR]

I have my 920, which I now prefer to fly over the H, set to Imperial as well but it also displays the low V altitude limitation in Metric. As the 920 triggers the first low V warning at ~22.75v, which is much too early it has become habit to violate it and land at 22.4 or 22.3V, which is usually 7 minutes or more after the first warning. That is why I was aware of the altitude reduction protocol. IRRC, the Chroma had a similar low V altitude restriction. That H does not have that kind of reserve buffer so a first warning should be a landing priority message.