PatR
Premium Pilot
I wonder what the maximum weight is the gimbal can effectively handle? Add a filter, perhaps an adapter ring, and a hood and although they are light the combination could be excessive.
Video from the C23 and H Plus
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Oh, I really like what I see here! The video is so crisp, clean and sharp, corner to corner. Also, no shimmering textures, YuKay! Judging by the slight motion blur during lumpy pans, I suspect this pilot used an ND filter to get the shutter speed and ISO down.
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This is a camera drone. Good video means not flying very fast, therefore, less windage.
PatR
Premium Pilot
There’s still the max design weight factor to contend with. Gimbal motors are only sized to handle a limited amount of weight before they become unstable and jittery, slow down gimbal response, or generate excessive heat that reduces life span. There’s also PID settings that are adjusted to respond best to the design camera weight and moment arms. Large hand held gimbals have limitations considerably higher but we have access to PID adjustments and balance considerations not present with small camera drones. We need to remember that light weight camera drones are designed around what I like to call a “law of minimums”. Minimum weight, minimum cost, component capability that meets a task’s minimum requirement.
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Thanks for your comments. The fades are a little long, you are right but this wasn't a "finished process" but a look at the quality of the video for comparison to the difference in details, for example the moire you point out, saturation, exposure etc. when set on "normal" compared to the Railroad Crossing video I shared here which was set on "gorgeous." I'm still learning how to use PowerDirector and I'll perfect those skills as time and practice allows.
I can see the benefits of a filter(s) and the downsides as well, especially after looking at some comments in this thread. At some point I'll probably get one or more if I think they help. Learning about (being aware of) the light in a situation and what adjustments can be made in the camera as well as finding approaches and angles to fly that leverage the light, rather than fight it, are all part of a lengthy and involved learning curve. Of course the light can change at a moments notice which complicates things when you're flying and have to make adjustments "on the fly."
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I'm confused, as I don't always see my responses show-up to some of the comments posted. But I digress.
I stated in my first response to you that I would address editing color, clarity, exposure, etc. in LR and I was mistaken because LR can't play or edit video. My bad. So I'll be experimenting with CyberLink's PowerDirector 16 software for that purpose, as I think it has that capacity as well. I may share those results if it makes a notable improvement.
I stated in my first response to you that I would address editing color, clarity, exposure, etc. in LR and I was mistaken because LR can't play or edit video. My bad. So I'll be experimenting with CyberLink's PowerDirector 16 software for that purpose, as I think it has that capacity as well. I may share those results if it makes a notable improvement.
You can get a lot of color/exposure/sharpening correction done in the basic PD16. I have not tried ColorDirector. It appears to go way beyond my usual editing skills or needs. Have fun with your editing and keep us posted.
I think this shows the C23 sharpness with close objects (<50ft) really well, edge to- edge. There is a drop off in sharpness which I think may be partially resolved if Yuneec would kick the focus up from 3ft to ~ to 10ft to ~ .
If you take the water away, the hill sides look suspiciously like Palm Springs, although there would be more cactus.
Thank you for posting.
The video was just a simple test after downgrading the gimbal code to v20180507 in order to eliminate the jello caused by v20180801 (even build 748 that Yuneec Europe sent me had jello, although less than build 743). There was also some strong wind (4-5 BF with good powerful gusts) but the gimbal held up pretty nice, considering all the (on purpose) crazy panning and flying.
Getting more comfortable with TH+ day by day, although I am a bit worried about the reported incidents of the drone stopping the motors mid-air...
I could see that some of the pans were intentionally jerky but we have seen quite a lot of stuttering pans from other uploads and I think they are more prevalent in 4k/60 video which places the maximum strain on the capture card. They seem to be exacerbated if the H Plus is flying at speed and/or if the camera is panning quickly since this results in a high number of new pixels in every frame - again stressing the sensor and card.
I suspect that the H Plus optimally needed a faster UHS interface to be able to capture high speed detail accurately (within the confines of the capability of the lens) - which we may see in a future model.
But if anyone has managed to capture a smooth fast pan at 4k/60, I would like to see it.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "smooth fast pan".
Imagine rotating the camera rapidly at, say, 60-deg per second. At 60 frames per second, that is 1-deg/frame. For an object 100 feet away, that would mean about 1.7 feet of image movement PER FRAME. Under the best of conditions, that would not appear smooth. Imagine what that looks like at 30 or 24 fps.
Smoothness of playback from YouTube is also largely dependent upon the connection speed. If you right-click the video while playing and select "stats for nerds", you will see Host and Connection Speed. I've found that if the connection speed is below about 30Mbps, a 4K60fps video will not play smoothly. When the connection speed is over 40Mbps, the buffering is adequate for smooth playback. Also, if the connection speed is too slow, copy the URL, close that YT window, reopen YT window and paste the URL. This will get you a different "Host" and the connection speed will probably be higher. Apparently, all Hosts are not created equal.
I'm not sure myself as I don't know the actual speeds involved. But I would hope there's a way to capture smooth video from a pan at the maximum panning speed, whatever that is - unless the manual says otherwise. If not, what is the point of building a gimbal that rotates at a useless speed?
However, I'm well aware that panning artifacts are a potential issue with all cameras, including pro cinema cameras. Red say that in order to minimise artifacts, the maximum panning speed should be such that an object on one side of the frame takes at least 7 seconds to disappear out of view on the opposite side of the frame (at 24fps - with adjustments for higher frame rates)…and that this rule applies to all cameras, lenses and sensor sizes.
But they also say that a high frame rate such as 60fps is a good way to reduce artifacts at high camera speed - and that isn't what I am seeing generally in the H Plus YouTube videos. My impression is that videos filmed at lower frame rates (25-30fps) contain fewer artifacts. That being so, the likely culprit is the UHS interface and the capture limitations of the best SD cards available for H Plus.
There's an interesting comparison of identical pans at varying camera speed at 60fps and 24fps, using a Sony AX100. This looks like conclusive evidence that pans at all speeds are smoother and cleaner at 60fps than at 24fps - and yet I haven't seen this to be the case with the H Plus, presumably due to its capture limitations.
rdonson
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That's an interesting find, YuKay. That's a 1" sensor with a Zeiss lens on that Sony AX100. It should blow the C23 into the weeds.
Most pans above slow are visually distracting to me.
Most pans above slow are visually distracting to me.
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That's neat comparison video using a camera I'm familiar with.
I'm still trying to understand why you feel the H+ has difficulty recording smooth pans in 4K60. Look at this video from 0.06s on. The pan is way too fast but still looks smooth on my screen. There is an occasional hiccup but after running through that sequence repeatedly, it looks to be unrelated to the quality of the video since the hiccup occurs at different points with each run through.
Often, that's true. Even with a pretty capable rig (5k monitor, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5 processor, Radeon Pro 570 4096 MB graphics chip, 4TB SSD internal drive, 40MB RAM, Mac OS High Sierra, a sustained 45Mbps ethernet-wired internet connection and new prescription glasses from Specsavers) many 4k and/or 60fps YouTube videos don't play optimally on the first time of asking and I have to reload to get the benefit of the cached data to view them properly. If available, I download the video file to play locally of course - where playback is always smoother.
On the Robert Fekete video you linked to, I got approx 150 dropped frames on the first playthrough, reducing to 40 on the second and under 10 on the third. On first play, the pans stuttered a lot but this improved with each repeat play. Hence I always view online videos at least twice - although presumably most people wouldn't bother.
I also usually view in two browsers nowadays: Chrome (with hardware acceleration switched on) and Safari (which can't play VP9 4k YouTube videos). At 1080p in the Default window, Safari gives me the smoothest playback (after a choppy first run) and even the fast pan at 1:25 looks OK. But increasing the viewing window to Theater Mode introduces slight choppiness. Chrome will eventually play 4k/60 video fairly smoothly but only after several run-throughs; and its rendering of 1080p is always slightly inferior to Safari's.
But in the case of this video, the data is obviously there as it plays back fine at 1080p in Safari so the H Plus is performing better than it appears on first sight. So, yes, my viewing experience, like everyone's, is shaped by numerous variables unrelated to the C23 - which is why I go the extra mile to eliminate as many as possible. Your experience is presumably based on a more capable rig than mine - which makes it more valid when assessing the C23 but less valid when assessing the typical user experience as I would guess that 90% of viewers are using rigs with a lower spec.
Also, your definition of smooth may be different from the next man's. I have already discovered that my anti-aliasing tolerance level is much lower than most people's.
Interesting close-up stationary car video at 1080/25 from TK-Video Production. Some more gravel hassle and a little chrome trim moiré but the car looks great in half light.
Construction site at 1080/30 by Akoni Lamparilya. Great detail but, for me, stuttering throughout for some reason (not camera speed).
And a "manual map" of the same site, which is not something I understand:
And a "manual map" of the same site, which is not something I understand:
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Most likely the stuttering is caused by recording at 30fps and then rendering out the video at say 25fps, I made that mistake lol and wondered why my outputted footage was jerky whilst the original footage was fine lol
PatR
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I’ve done that too and also ended up with a jerky video.
Just posing a question, how much of the pan complaints might be due to a rolling shutter? I watched the two comparison videos and the cathedral video last night on YouTube several times and also found the first viewing with the two comparison videos less that satisfactory. The second and third times played well. The “stats for nerds” indicated the internet speed had increased considerably from the first viewing. The cathedral video only provided one pan “bump” during the viewings but I had seen that one before so it may have been “cached” in my computer in some manner.
I don’t have the photo tech knowledge you guys do but the only thing I found a bit irritating in the comparison vids was what appears to be some “ballooning” of the buildings as the lens passed over things. Smaller to larger to smaller with lens passage.
I get your point. How do we improve the viewer experience?
I watched an aerial video last night showing the Tirol region of the Alps, shot with the Inspire. It was available in 5K on YT but I could only view it in 4K. It played at 25fps which did not require nearly as high connection speed as 4K60fps. BTW, I use Firefox. The image quality was stunning! Pans were, for the most part, buttery smooth. The pilot/videographer obviously followed the 7-second rule that you referred to above.
So, I think it's up to the videographer to improve the viewer experience. First of all, PAN SLOWLY. You can always speed it up in post if necessary. Second, you don't need to shoot and produce at 60fps to produce stunning video. Use 60fps when you need to capture fast moving action in front of the camera (or don't mind limiting your audience to people with a fast computer and internet connection).
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