Battery charging with the original stock typhoon H charger/longevity

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

I have an ultra power charger and adapter for the Typhoon H battery. I know the stock chargers that came with the H are pretty weak from a balance/ function standpoint (no storage charge, IR measurement etc.) and can lead to premature battery degradation fairly quickly. My question-- I find myself in a position of needing to charge more than one battery at a time. Can I use the stock charger (I have 3 of them) and then run a balance cycle (after charging the batteries on the stock charger) on the Ultra Power charger with the same benefits of just using the Ultra Power charger? The Balance cycle on a charged battery is WAY faster than a full charge. That's what I am thinking that function is for? I would buy a 4 port charger, but that is not in the cards for a while, plus I am cheap/ or broke, or both. I already have these old chargers. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[WTFDproject]

I have an ultra power charger and adapter for the Typhoon H battery. I know the stock chargers that came with the H are pretty weak from a balance/ function standpoint (no storage charge, IR measurement etc.) and can lead to premature battery degradation fairly quickly. My question-- I find myself in a position of needing to charge more than one battery at a time. Can I use the stock charger (I have 3 of them) and then run a balance cycle (after charging the batteries on the stock charger) on the Ultra Power charger with the same benefits of just using the Ultra Power charger? The Balance cycle on a charged battery is WAY faster than a full charge. That's what I am thinking that function is for? I would buy a 4 port charger, but that is not in the cards for a while, plus I am cheap/ or broke, or both. I already have these old chargers. Any input would be appreciated.

If you charge them completely on the OEM chargers, you don't need to put them on the ultra power. The OEM charger does the balance already. The balance is just the last part of the charge. Basically the charge goes full bore until one or more cell gets a little behind, then the charger adjusts the charging rate to each cell to keep them balanced. The Ultra Power can likely do everything faster due to a higher charging capacity, but the end result is the same for a full charge.

 

[Pier2162]

Hi.
In my opinion, it makes no sense.
The standard charger can be used to charge the battery normally, because it is a cell-balance charger.
The fact that the balancing is faster on a charged battery, well it is normal, because the cells have already been balanced by the other charger.
You can check final voltage of the cells with a multimeter after charge with stock charger, you will see they are not so different one each other.
I would use the Ultra Power charger only to do the storage of all the batteries after use, which is the most important thing to avoid damage to the batteries, a function that is missing from the standard charger.
The main cause of battery degradation, yes, it is the storage voltage, but not only: also charging batteries when they are hot, or exceed with current during charge, or use batteries with extremely low temperature without pre heating them before, or leaving them unused for long time (more than 3 months).
The alternative, as you say, is a multiple charger with 2 or more outputs, like the Skyrc Q200 that I use (4 outputs).
Before buying this charger, I've used the stock one for more than one year, and left batteries at 11,1V (read on the ST16 before landing) for storage, batteries are still in perfect conditions, after 3 years.
I don't think the main cause of battery damage is the stock charger, considering that in any case batteries have a self degradation that can increase if badly maintained.

 

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

Thanks for the input guys, I will defer to you as the experts, frankly, it will make my life easier. I found that the stock chargers seemed to not balance as well as the aftermarket chargers, it has been years since I used the stock chargers though, but I want say I was reading as much as .3 variation in cells after using the stock charger? I had always wondered if that made a huge impact or not. My little Ultra Power is always less than .1 variation if any between the cells. I am religious about storage capacity and landing at around 15.3/15.4 (Pier2162 -- 11.1V? isn't that way low for storage?), I never charge hot, and I live in San Antonio, what is this thing you speak of, I think you called it "cold" (last February didn't count)? So if it doesn't make a difference i am good to go...

 

[Pier2162]

Thanks for the input guys, I will defer to you as the experts, frankly, it will make my life easier. I found that the stock chargers seemed to not balance as well as the aftermarket chargers, it has been years since I used the stock chargers though, but I want say I was reading as much as .3 variation in cells after using the stock charger? I had always wondered if that made a huge impact or not. My little Ultra Power is always less than .1 variation if any between the cells. I am religious about storage capacity and landing at around 15.3/15.4 (Pier2162 -- 11.1V? isn't that way low for storage?), I never charge hot, and I live in San Antonio, what is this thing you speak of, I think you called it "cold" (last February didn't count)? So if it doesn't make a difference i am good to go...

Sorry...i was thinking at my Chroma that has a 3s battery .
Normally i land at 15.2v with the H.
Regarding the "cold"...i live in northern Italy, in winter temperatures can drop at -15 degrees Celsius.

 

[DoomMeister]

Thanks for the input guys, I will defer to you as the experts, frankly, it will make my life easier. I found that the stock chargers seemed to not balance as well as the aftermarket chargers, it has been years since I used the stock chargers though, but I want say I was reading as much as .3 variation in cells after using the stock charger? I had always wondered if that made a huge impact or not. My little Ultra Power is always less than .1 variation if any between the cells. I am religious about storage capacity and landing at around 15.3/15.4 (Pier2162 -- 11.1V? isn't that way low for storage?), I never charge hot, and I live in San Antonio, what is this thing you speak of, I think you called it "cold" (last February didn't count)? So if it doesn't make a difference i am good to go...

I have found the stock chargers to do a good job of balancing. If you were finding a 0.3 volt difference in cells from charging on an OEM charger you likely have a faulty one. Check cell voltages after charging to see if you can find the one causing this issue.

Another cause for the cell voltage deviation can be leaving the battery on the charger after it has finished charging. The balance circuits are still attached and will drain the battery cell by cell until it is dead. It usually starts with the most negative cell in the pack. Monitoring the charging and removing the battery as soon as the charge is complete is the best practice.

I have seen the draining of a cell on good chargers when the battery is left attached after charge completion. It takes several hours as most drain through a 10W resistor and it takes quite awhile to drop the voltage on a 5400mAh cell.

 

[Pointcruzcve119]

Hi.
In my opinion, it makes no sense.
The standard charger can be used to charge the battery normally, because it is a cell-balance charger.
The fact that the balancing is faster on a charged battery, well it is normal, because the cells have already been balanced by the other charger.
You can check final voltage of the cells with a multimeter after charge with stock charger, you will see they are not so different one each other.
I would use the Ultra Power charger only to do the storage of all the batteries after use, which is the most important thing to avoid damage to the batteries, a function that is missing from the standard charger.
The main cause of battery degradation, yes, it is the storage voltage, but not only: also charging batteries when they are hot, or exceed with current during charge, or use batteries with extremely low temperature without pre heating them before, or leaving them unused for long time (more than 3 months).
The alternative, as you say, is a multiple charger with 2 or more outputs, like the Skyrc Q200 that I use (4 outputs).
Before buying this charger, I've used the stock one for more than one year, and left batteries at 11,1V (read on the ST16 before landing) for storage, batteries are still in perfect conditions, after 3 years.
I don't think the main cause of battery damage is the stock charger, considering that in any case batteries have a self degradation that can increase if badly maintained.

Aren’t the Yuneec batteries basically the same as any Li-Po battery. If you are going to store them for any length of time, Do Not Store Them With A Full Charge. Instead, let them Drop To 1/3-1/2 charge, then put them in a storage safety bag. When you want to start using them again, put them on the charger and bring them to Full Charge before use. They Will Last Longer. This procedure is recommended by all Li-Po manufacturers.

 

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

Aren’t the Yuneec batteries basically the same as any Li-Po battery. If you are going to store them for any length of time, Do Not Store Them With A Full Charge. Instead, let them Drop To 1/3-1/2 charge, then put them in a storage safety bag. When you want to start using them again, put them on the charger and bring them to Full Charge before use. They Will Last Longer. This procedure is recommended by all Li-Po manufacturers.

You are correct-- I fly to storage charge then land and swap batteries. If one battery hasn't been used, I drop it onto my after-market charger and run a storage cycle. From what everyone is saying, that is the main use of a better after-market charger is storage cycle/ monitoring and faster charging. I burn through 5 or 6 batteries at a time, and one after-market charger was not cutting it anymore. I was under the misinterpretation the OEM charger was bad because of uneven balancing, so I avoided using the OEM chargers. I can now charge 3 at a time.

 

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

I have found the stock chargers to do a good job of balancing. If you were finding a 0.3 volt difference in cells from charging on an OEM charger you likely have a faulty one. Check cell voltages after charging to see if you can find the one causing this issue.

Another cause for the cell voltage deviation can be leaving the battery on the charger after it has finished charging. The balance circuits are still attached and will drain the battery cell by cell until it is dead. It usually starts with the most negative cell in the pack. Monitoring the charging and removing the battery as soon as the charge is complete is the best practice.

I have seen the draining of a cell on good chargers when the battery is left attached after charge completion. It takes several hours as most drain through a 10W resistor and it takes quite awhile to drop the voltage on a 5400mAh cell.

Thanks Doom-- Interesting, I did not think of that. I may have been doing that inadvertently in the beginning. So once the OEM charger cuts off, it does not auto sense to turn back on until battery has been removed and placed back in the charger I assume? You say just a few hours can drain? That will put a monkey wrench into my plan as I want to charge before I go to sleep so they will be ready for morning flight projects. Is this common or just a few random chargers? I have had auto car chargers do something similar. Do I need to put the batteries on a piece of wood or plastic so the earth does't drain the? (That last bit was a joke BTW)

 

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

Sorry...i was thinking at my Chroma that has a 3s battery .
Normally i land at 15.2v with the H.
Regarding the "cold"...i live in northern Italy, in winter temperatures can drop at -15 degrees Celsius.

I love Italy, been there several for vacation several times in my life. It very rarely gets below 32 F (0 C) but I have fried a gps module from the heat, we average 95 degrees F (35 C)to 100F Degrees (37 C) most of the summer. That black case on the H does not like summer here. On a positive note I fly pretty much year round.

 

[DoomMeister]

Thanks Doom-- Interesting, I did not think of that. I may have been doing that inadvertently in the beginning. So once the OEM charger cuts off, it does not auto sense to turn back on until battery has been removed and placed back in the charger I assume? You say just a few hours can drain? That will put a monkey wrench into my plan as I want to charge before I go to sleep so they will be ready for morning flight projects. Is this common or just a few random chargers? I have had auto car chargers do something similar. Do I need to put the batteries on a piece of wood or plastic so the earth does't drain the? (That last bit was a joke BTW)

The amount it drains in a few hours is not too much as it is through a 10W load. The issue is that it unbalances the pack and you don’t notice it looking at the Volts readout on the ST16.

I see the same issue on my third party charger. If the battery is left connected after the charge completes it is still connected to the balancing circuit allowing a small drain on the battery.

Other members may know of a charger that totally disconnects the battery at the completion of the balance charge, but I don’t know if any.

 

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

Update... So I tried my stock chargers, something is wrong, I normally get 12 to 15 minutes of flight, but when I charged on the stock chargers I was getting only around 8-9 minutes. I charged a battery on the stock charger, then finish charged on the aftermarket charger and it took an additional 1200 v or so. The second battery needed an additional 908v. I will actually measure next round of charging, for now, I am using the stock chargers to charge 3 batteries at one, then topping off with a finish charge on the aftermarket. Still faster than charging 1 battery at a time, but still not ideal.

 

[Pier2162]

Probably stock chargers have a different setpoint or they use higher current than aftermarket one.
This cause to reach final tension and stop charge also if battery is not completely full in terms of milliamps.
Ideal in your case could be the use of a 4 bay charger, like this one

Amazon.com

I got one used for 90 € (~ 100$)
You will need 4 adapter cables too.

 

[Sure Bet Drone and Design]

Probably stock chargers have a different setpoint or they use higher current than aftermarket one.
This cause to reach final tension and stop charge also if battery is not completely full in terms of milliamps.
Ideal in your case could be the use of a 4 bay charger, like this one

Amazon.com

I got one used for 90 € (~ 100$)
You will need 4 adapter cables too.

I was trying because I already had the stock chargers. I will definitely be looking for a solution along this line. Thanks for the link.