Drones under attack

Flymac · Jan 2, 2017

mcbutler said:
In the UK I am almost frightened to fly my drone. We have PC nannies calling the police about invasion of privacy when your flying miles from anywhere.
I flew 3 days ago close to a golf course, 300m away, and around 50m Altitude taking pictures of the sunset over the sea and two of these muppets came over and told me they were going to call the police! I packed up and legged it.

Hi Mac.
You shouldn't have legged it mate - if you are flying legally - there is nothing the cops can do about it and it would have been interesting to hear how the Police would have reacted to the 'muppets' reporting you. They haven't got the resources to investigate a burglary, let alone a drone pilot flying legally.
I don't know if you have heard of 'Drone Assist' from Altitude Angel its a free app where it shows all the restricted flight areas with information provided by the CAA and it is free! (The Drone Connectivity Platform | Altitude Angel) If you are investigated by the cops, you can show them your Drone Assist to prove that you are flying legally. Even if you decide to fly within the confines of a restricted area, you are advised to "We recommend you do not operate your drone here. If you do, please exercise extreme caution and abide by the CAA Dronecode, ensuring your drone remains within your line of sight at all times."
One of the other things about Altitude Angel is that you are able to pre log a flight and this notifies other aircraft flying in the area of drone activity! Give it a 'whirl'!
I would be interested to know which Golf Course you were near?
Regards Michael.

mcbutler · Jan 2, 2017

Flymac said:
Hi Mac.
You shouldn't have legged it mate - if you are flying legally - there is nothing the cops can do about it and it would have been interesting to hear how the Police would have reacted to the 'muppets' reporting you. They haven't got the resources to investigate a burglary, let alone a drone pilot flying legally.
I don't know if you have heard of 'Drone Assist' from Altitude Angel its a free app where it shows all the restricted flight areas with information provided by the CAA and it is free! (The Drone Connectivity Platform | Altitude Angel) If you are investigated by the cops, you can show them your Drone Assist to prove that you are flying legally. Even if you decide to fly within the confines of a restricted area, you are advised to "We recommend you do not operate your drone here. If you do, please exercise extreme caution and abide by the CAA Dronecode, ensuring your drone remains within your line of sight at all times."
One of the other things about Altitude Angel is that you are able to pre log a flight and this notifies other aircraft flying in the area of drone activity! Give it a 'whirl'!
I would be interested to know which Golf Course you were near?
Regards Michael.

Hi already have drone assist, I met the altitude angel team at the UK drone show a few weeks back. I live in Devon, the police here are a nightmare. At the very least they would have taken the drone, searched my house and taken computers etc looking for any images they could use to prosecute me for invasion of privacy. Telemetry would be looked at as well. You can be arrested on suspicion, held in a cell for hours wait for interview and you would not see your drone for months while they analyse it. It could easily have become a massive and expensive issue. Not to mention the obligatory ****** press coverage.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Brian R · Feb 2, 2017

mcbutler said:
Hi already have drone assist, I met the altitude angel team at the UK drone show a few weeks back. I live in Devon, the police here are a nightmare. At the very least they would have taken the drone, searched my house and taken computers etc looking for any images they could use to prosecute me for invasion of privacy. Telemetry would be looked at as well. You can be arrested on suspicion, held in a cell for hours wait for interview and you would not see your drone for months while they analyse it. It could easily have become a massive and expensive issue. Not to mention the obligatory ****** press coverage.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I think you will find there is no offence of "suspicion of invasion of privacy" It is a civil matter in the context of drones and entirely up to the "offended party" to proceed against you. A job I seriously doubt even the most desperate ambulance chasing lawyer would take on.
Police would never be granted a warrant to search your house as you suggest unless you were suspected of flying over sensitive sites such as defence installation, nuclear facilities, a prison, Royal Palaces and the like.
I think you have been wound up.

Kev Waite · Feb 2, 2017

mcbutler said:
Hi already have drone assist, I met the altitude angel team at the UK drone show a few weeks back. I live in Devon, the police here are a nightmare. At the very least they would have taken the drone, searched my house and taken computers etc looking for any images they could use to prosecute me for invasion of privacy. Telemetry would be looked at as well. You can be arrested on suspicion, held in a cell for hours wait for interview and you would not see your drone for months while they analyse it. It could easily have become a massive and expensive issue. Not to mention the obligatory ****** press coverage.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I'm from Plymouth and been flying around the area with multicopters for the last 4 or 5 years, never had a problem with the police. On two occasions I spoke to a couple of them and showed them what I was doing. They were fascinated we chatted a while and then they left me to it. I even flew with the inspector that started Devon and Cornwall's Police drone department, really nice guy but now retired. His only concerns are that people fly sensibly and follow the rules. I've flown with the Dartmoor Search and Rescue group on one of their exercises and again a very positive response. The only issue I've had is from 1 of the Dartmoor Rangers that is a bit of a jobs worth. The other 3 rangers are really nice as long as your nice to them. They personally don't have a problem with most drone flyers, but will suggest that you shouldn't fly on Dartmoor, but then say something like I'll be back this way in a couple of hours, wink, wink.

mcbutler · Feb 2, 2017

Good to hear all the positive comments and by rangers police etc.
I will recount a story to you all;
Some years ago I had a very good friend who was in his late 60's, he was a huge camera buff and had been all his life.
He would buzz around Cornwall and Devon every year taking the most beautiful images of the beaches etc. He would then offer them to travel companies to promote the area. He made a few pounds every year doing this.
One year however he took his camera to a beach in Devon, went out into the sea a few yards and started snapping images of the beach and the people, we have all seen these images in travel magazines.
One person (pc twat) called the police unbeknown to him. He was subsequently questioned in the parking area and asked to surrender his camera, he agreed.
Police then sometime later, around 13 months contacted him and arranged to meet him, he was arrested for making indecent images of children! Apparently an image of a child in swimwear, underwear is a level 1 indecent image!
He was charged and a court date was set.
He was subsequently advised to plead guilty as a damage limitation move by his barrister.
He pleaded guilty was plastered all over the papers as a paedophile and received a 3 year community sentence and 5 years on the sex offenders register.
Shortly after this he died of a heart attack after losing all his family, friends etc.

Make your own mind up!

mcbutler · Feb 2, 2017

Brian R said:
I think you will find there is no offence of "suspicion of invasion of privacy" It is a civil matter in the context of drones and entirely up to the "offended party" to proceed against you. A job I seriously doubt even the most desperate ambulance chasing lawyer would take on.
Police would never be granted a warrant to search your house as you suggest unless you were suspected of flying over sensitive sites such as defence installation, nuclear facilities, a prison, Royal Palaces and the like.
I think you have been wound up.

Hi Brian,
You are right there is no such crime, however people are generally arrested 'on suspicion' of commiting a crime. Police then set about proving you have.
Be under no illusion my friend. Once you are the other side of the law they are not your friends and they exist purely to put you away.

Kev Waite · Feb 2, 2017

mcbutler said:
Good to hear all the positive comments and by rangers police etc.
I will recount a story to you all;
Some years ago I had a very good friend who was in his late 60's, he was a huge camera buff and had been all his life.
He would buzz around Cornwall and Devon every year taking the most beautiful images of the beaches etc. He would then offer them to travel companies to promote the area. He made a few pounds every year doing this.
One year however he took his camera to a beach in Devon, went out into the sea a few yards and started snapping images of the beach and the people, we have all seen these images in travel magazines.
One person (pc twat) called the police unbeknown to him. He was subsequently questioned in the parking area and asked to surrender his camera, he agreed.
Police then sometime later, around 13 months contacted him and arranged to meet him, he was arrested for making indecent images of children! Apparently an image of a child in swimwear, underwear is a level 1 indecent image!
He was charged and a court date was set.
He was subsequently advised to plead guilty as a damage limitation move by his barrister.
He pleaded guilty was plastered all over the papers as a paedophile and received a 3 year community sentence and 5 years on the sex offenders register.
Shortly after this he died of a heart attack after losing all his family, friends etc.

Make your own mind up!

I am sorry to hear about your friend. However you have made a lot of negative and potentially confrontational statements throughout this thread regarding where you can and can't fly and involvement with the police etc. Have you actually had issues with contact with the police while flying your drone? Yes, I can understand the odd ill informed member of the public that believes all the b@llsh!t that the media pumps out about drones and I have too been approached by such a person, but have found by engaging with them, showing them what you're doing and putting them right of what you can and can't see from our cameras, most, but not all, start to see our hobby in a different light.
Yes, people have been arrested and prosecuted for flying drones in the U.K. And if I was flying over military bases, crime scenes, fires, crowds of people, built up areas, airports and football grounds etc I would deserve everything I got.

mcbutler · Feb 2, 2017

All statements made are factual Kev.
If they are negative or confrontational that is the nature of the beast.
It is simply what happened.

Brian R · Feb 3, 2017

mcbutler said:
Hi Brian,
You are right there is no such crime, however people are generally arrested 'on suspicion' of commiting a crime. Police then set about proving you have.
Be under no illusion my friend. Once you are the other side of the law they are not your friends and they exist purely to put you away.

I sense a hidden agenda with Police.

To justify an arrest Police need evidence to support the suspicion of an offence under PACE. (walking on the cracks on the pavement wont do.)

Then the custody Sargent must be satisfied that the arrest is lawful and there is sufficient evidence to support it before he/she will accept the charge
Drink/Drug driving for instance would be supported by a roadside screening test.

Except in cases like drink/drug driving and other similar evidence based arrests, a case must be prepared and submitted to the CPS before any person can be brought before a court.

I seriously doubt any force has time to waste on RESPONSIBLE drone operators.
The more people flying drones push their luck and the limits, the more likely this will change.

mcbutler · Feb 3, 2017

Hi Brian,
If you read the story about my friend that I posted in this thread earlier you would know that I certainly do have an agenda with the police.

To clarify for you;

1. No evidence whatsoever is required for an initial arrest, just a complaint or suspicion. For example if you are accused of rape they do not wait around till they get evidence to arrest you they do it straight away.
2. You would then be taken to a police station and 'booked in' at the custody 'suite'.
3. The senior officer will look at your arrest and authorise it.
4. You will be detained awaiting interview, at this time they will carry out searches of your home etc looking for corroborating evidence.
5. The custody sergeant has nothing to do with charging decisions.
6. After interview (unless its murder or a very serious offence that would result in remand) you would be bailed (under arrest in the community) whilst they investigate, interview any witnesses, analyse computers (drones) etc.
7. Once this process has been completed all gathered evidence is presented to the CPS who look at it and decide if it is a strong enough case and in the public interest to charge you.
8. When your next bail period expires, you are then taken to the custody desk and officially charged with the offence and bailed to appear at the local magistrates court on a particular date.
9. At magistrates court if the offence is deemed to serious they will pass it up to the crown court.
10. Your first appearance at Crown Court is for what is called a Plea and case management hearing, at this point you plead guilty or not guilty.
11. If you plead guilty a sentencing date is set and reports from professionals are ordered (probation, psychologists etc).
12. If you plead not guilty a trial date is set.

As part of your sentence it is entirely likely that items seized from you will be ordered for destruction if your found/plead guilty.

Since the sad events with my friend this process has become an interest of mine and I have attended many trials relating to his experiences. I suggest you go along and watch a trial like that, it is terrifying. I have seen many men get many many years in prison with no evidence apart from the victims allegation (which is admissable as evidence in UK courts). NO hard or real evidence whatsoever.

You are right, I guess not many police forces would be interested, problem is it only takes one officer to make your life extremely difficult for quite some time, so the whole thing is best avoided....

I am super careful with my UAV flying, I carry my BMFA insurance certificate, drone cade and just printed out the attached document to laminate and carry as well.

Happy flying my friend