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gps compass tower ?
- Thread starter johnnyb57
- Start date
How do you remove it to load the H into the backpack ? Also if you dont mind whats the cost ?
Eagle Eye ?
Do you truly believe the
Module extender really helps ?
Keith Kuhn
I have read enough of John's posts to know that he has gone through a thorough period of design and testing to gather enough quantifiable evidence to demonstrate a measurable improvement.
Whether or not that the setup as designed is needed, must remain an individual decision for each pilot. But if GPS connectivity issues are present, this mast will certainly do the job of isolating these components from the rest of the electronics... and therefore improving performance.
Will this setup improve video signal or RC control signal connectivity... not at all. Since this setup, in no way boosts the signal strength of either broadcast RC signal or received video signal, it does not violate FCC regulations.
Whether or not that the setup as designed is needed, must remain an individual decision for each pilot. But if GPS connectivity issues are present, this mast will certainly do the job of isolating these components from the rest of the electronics... and therefore improving performance.
Will this setup improve video signal or RC control signal connectivity... not at all. Since this setup, in no way boosts the signal strength of either broadcast RC signal or received video signal, it does not violate FCC regulations.
PatR
Premium Pilot
I’m not EagleEye but I know without any reservation what John created with his GPS tower provides improvements that extend beyond the GPS.
The tower alone increases separation between the GPS transceiver and the main power board, ESC’s, and battery. By itself it permits accumulated heat inside the shell to better disperse, which benefits not only the GPS and compass, but the rest of the electrical components as well. By reducing heat accumulation by by providing space for expanded air migration the life span of everything is extended. Heat causes a lot of damage to electrical components and the effects are accumulative.
Nobody that builds high end drones encloses the GPS module in close proximity to the main power system. The main power system creates electrical noise, which is known to interfere with GPS signal. So they place the GPS modules on masts that elevate the GPS module away from the power system. Consumer drones are tightly packaged with a captured GPS unit because they are cheaper to manufacture, and because the average buyer sees them as being cleaner in appearance. It also eliminates the probability end users might break the mast.
Last I heard, Johnno took his heat dispersal method to a new level by incorporating a cooling fan to improve cooling air flow inside the drone body. If that feature is still present it’s an exceptional benefit as the H body design has a deplorable cooling air flow design. The cooling vents do not face into the general direction of flight and the exit area provided is inadequate to properly exhaust expanded hot air. His fan concept largely overcomes a major manufacturer design deficiency.
When I was doing the battery testing I dug pretty deep into the H hardware just to see how they did things inside. One of the things that concerned me greatly was seeing the adhesive used to stick the ground plane layer on the upper shell burned onto some of the GPS and compass components. I haven’t gotten around to placing a thermocouple inside the GPS hump to establish actual operating temperatures on a normal day but seeing the adhesive burned onto those components and nowhere else was enough to determine there’s too much heat at the GPS and compass modules. If and when both fail you get a fly away, and neither the GPS or compass is certified to survive an elevated temperature thermal soak. I would be really surprised if either was designed to function above 40C. Mil standards use 60C as the minimum max level, and often higher for critical systems. That 20C delta is the difference between something that can fly on a hot day and something that can’t. I saw quite a few aircraft, manned and unmanned, that had to taxi back and park because their avionics cooked off waiting on a hot taxiway.
So do I believe Johnno’s tower result helps? Without any sliver of doubt, yes. The $7.00 eBay contraption will help a little but nowhere close to what Johnno’s will.
Just an FYI, a large part of my professional life was dedicated to finding and resolving problems. Although the title was field service rep it was more about being a “fixer”. Heat stress resolution, at either end of the temperature scale, was a big part of that.
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I'm sorry, was a 2 page thread not enough? I'll give you the Cliff Notes version:
The $7.00 one in the video above will likely not make enough of a difference. If you have enough GPS or compass issues that you want to make a modification, you should go with the version designed by @John Hennessy referenced throughout this entire thread.
The large percentage of pilots using the H Series are not going to experience enough issues to warrant making the modification. But some pilots, depending on the conditions present where and when they fly, will see a measurable improvement with the setup designed by Johnno... while the same conditions might have only a marginal improvement with the $7.00 YouTube mod.
As far as the length of life extension of the components involved, that also relates to the total number of hours of flight of those components over a specific timeframe. Obviously any commercial pilots will have more than enough justification, in making such a modification... just in terms of improving their ROI, by improving the lifespan of that invested hardware.
Keep in mind that from what I have seen, the technology curve is outpacing any MTBF measurements... just the camera evolution alone is limiting this level of airframe to a lifespan of what... 3 years? 5?
The $7.00 one in the video above will likely not make enough of a difference. If you have enough GPS or compass issues that you want to make a modification, you should go with the version designed by @John Hennessy referenced throughout this entire thread.
The large percentage of pilots using the H Series are not going to experience enough issues to warrant making the modification. But some pilots, depending on the conditions present where and when they fly, will see a measurable improvement with the setup designed by Johnno... while the same conditions might have only a marginal improvement with the $7.00 YouTube mod.
As far as the length of life extension of the components involved, that also relates to the total number of hours of flight of those components over a specific timeframe. Obviously any commercial pilots will have more than enough justification, in making such a modification... just in terms of improving their ROI, by improving the lifespan of that invested hardware.
Keep in mind that from what I have seen, the technology curve is outpacing any MTBF measurements... just the camera evolution alone is limiting this level of airframe to a lifespan of what... 3 years? 5?
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Hi all members and Patr and EEV,
In Response to this thread and the one's that I have done before, I did this moderfication for myself in my field of work and that is roof inspection and outside buildings and inside big industrial complexes.
As stated this has taken countless hours of models with varying has and widths and after more than twenty such models this has the best results in ht and size of the tower. After numerous chats with Patr and using his vast experience with drone small to very huge I knew that I was on the right track and then more discussions with him and the electronics engineer for Yuneec here in Australia I went along and put a fan in to the Tower. My job requires that some times I have to record a buildings external features that happens to be 20 feet away from another building and 30 feet + high and 300 feet + long. I got sick and tired of compass errors and GPS drop out so that is how this came about.
I know that it is not very pretty or aerodynamic but it is a HEXA shape and it works very well and to this day I am to experience a COMPASS or GPS notification on my ST16 and now with the fan on hot days of 38° C + I do not hesitate to take a job and comp,eternal it in those conditions. It has n own been over two years since I have seen any errors on my screen. I know that it works and is beneficial to the longevity of all my TYPHOON H's . You can choose the $7 job and like some one said in one thread if you pay s---t you get S---t . All that I know is that I don't have any problems with my COMPASS or GPS but I read about a **** of a lot that do on this forum. Happy flying and no SMART MODE .
Johnno Hennessy.
Keep flying on the green side of the grass.
In Response to this thread and the one's that I have done before, I did this moderfication for myself in my field of work and that is roof inspection and outside buildings and inside big industrial complexes.
As stated this has taken countless hours of models with varying has and widths and after more than twenty such models this has the best results in ht and size of the tower. After numerous chats with Patr and using his vast experience with drone small to very huge I knew that I was on the right track and then more discussions with him and the electronics engineer for Yuneec here in Australia I went along and put a fan in to the Tower. My job requires that some times I have to record a buildings external features that happens to be 20 feet away from another building and 30 feet + high and 300 feet + long. I got sick and tired of compass errors and GPS drop out so that is how this came about.
I know that it is not very pretty or aerodynamic but it is a HEXA shape and it works very well and to this day I am to experience a COMPASS or GPS notification on my ST16 and now with the fan on hot days of 38° C + I do not hesitate to take a job and comp,eternal it in those conditions. It has n own been over two years since I have seen any errors on my screen. I know that it works and is beneficial to the longevity of all my TYPHOON H's . You can choose the $7 job and like some one said in one thread if you pay s---t you get S---t . All that I know is that I don't have any problems with my COMPASS or GPS but I read about a **** of a lot that do on this forum. Happy flying and no SMART MODE .
Johnno Hennessy.
Keep flying on the green side of the grass.
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Sorry if this post upset you eagle, it was nothing more than a question ? As far as johns tower, what thru me off is its glued on, not good for transporting. Oh and I've never had a problem with GPS, but if it made it better i was all in. After my warantee runs out I'll try the cheap ones as I bought two, so l'll install one on the H, later on on the H+ if I see an advantage on the H ?
As a hobbyist, financial restraints influence it's lifespan greatly, even beyond what some would imply "useful life".
I apologize if I came off harshly, but on the surface it seemed as if you asked a question, had been given a number of responses from several experienced members... and then re-asked the original question with a video, as if no one had given you any response at all.
Most pilots will not need this mod... if you are not experiencing problems with the GPS, I would not "fix what aint broke".
Thank you everyone for the responces, I never meant to get out of control also someone asked for a link as they couldnt get it, thats why I posted the video ? Eagle eye, not to worry I have thick skin, and apprieciate the criticism. Also someone else mentioned "if it aint broken dont fix it", I'm sure we can all atest to the I can make it better, is why I asked ? I apoligise again
Oh and johno, Like I stated I loved your product my only issue was the transporting, I might not be the brightest blub on the porch, but I new yours was a better product by far ? Maybe another mod, since it can be unpluged at an added expence could be worked in, Thank you again, enjoy
PatR
Premium Pilot
I don’t see where an apology is necessary. You had a question that wasn’t really answered, instead receiving a lot of opinions. My responses did not answer your question either as they were intended to educate and show why one is better than the other. Unfortunately your desire for maximum portability sacrifices short and long term performance in favor of lower profile, less beneficial products.
There have been a few reports from people that have tried the product you are inquiring about.
One tried it with some success after experiencing positional instability during experiments with large aftermarket batteries. He suspected the larger battery was generating additional levels of EMI that interfered with the stock GPS unit, and the positional problems were no longer present after installation of the $7.00 modification. The performance evidence was pretty weak though as there was no actual evidence of the actual source of the problem.
Suspecting there is an issue caused by something is not the same as establishing there is an actual issue or the source of an issue. Working better one day than another does nothing in providing empirical evidence either.
One other person I recall reported using the $7.00 unit with success but again, there was little reference describing problem history and nothing describing what it actually did to improve reliability and positional performance. In all candor, most GPS units function relatively well in many environments, as do their mounts. It’s when the stressed environment surrounding them become difficult the differences in mounting and unit design become apparent.
In the end there have been a couple of positive reports for the unit you are interested in, and the low price makes it attractive. You might consider trying just one to determine, over the course of many flights in many locations, how well it works for you. The worst that could happen would be loss of an aircraft. Exactly why you might refrain from installing one out on your more expensive aircraft. If you do give them a try, please report back with your experiences. Try to detail the problems you had with positional reliability and satellite acquisition/retention prior to the installation along with the level of and consistency of any improvements experienced afterwards.
There have been a few reports from people that have tried the product you are inquiring about.
One tried it with some success after experiencing positional instability during experiments with large aftermarket batteries. He suspected the larger battery was generating additional levels of EMI that interfered with the stock GPS unit, and the positional problems were no longer present after installation of the $7.00 modification. The performance evidence was pretty weak though as there was no actual evidence of the actual source of the problem.
Suspecting there is an issue caused by something is not the same as establishing there is an actual issue or the source of an issue. Working better one day than another does nothing in providing empirical evidence either.
One other person I recall reported using the $7.00 unit with success but again, there was little reference describing problem history and nothing describing what it actually did to improve reliability and positional performance. In all candor, most GPS units function relatively well in many environments, as do their mounts. It’s when the stressed environment surrounding them become difficult the differences in mounting and unit design become apparent.
In the end there have been a couple of positive reports for the unit you are interested in, and the low price makes it attractive. You might consider trying just one to determine, over the course of many flights in many locations, how well it works for you. The worst that could happen would be loss of an aircraft. Exactly why you might refrain from installing one out on your more expensive aircraft. If you do give them a try, please report back with your experiences. Try to detail the problems you had with positional reliability and satellite acquisition/retention prior to the installation along with the level of and consistency of any improvements experienced afterwards.
Thank you pat, seeing as I dont have a proplem, other than lack of knowledge I will install one on the H and see what happens, I mean its only raising it an inch so I dont see any issues ? I really apprieciate everyones insight, enjoy
HI johnnyb57,
Just to answer a statement about the TOWER. It is not glued on, the base adapter that is hot melt glued to the top of the shell above the GPS position, is also supplied with two 3 mm polycarbonate screws and lock nuts for security, I have stated in my videos that I have not used the screws on any of my H's and they are still attached, BUT THE POLY BOLTS AND NUTS ARE THERE FOR YOUR USE TO SECURE IT. Withe the TOWER removed it still fits into the stock back pack for transport as I Travellers a lot with mine in overhead luggage on planes. I will post a picture. I have found that even with the hot melt glue if surfaces are prepared correctly,as mine are they will not move as I have been using them for 2 years now with no movement of the base.I hope that these photos clear up the questions. The photos are of one that I deliver to the Gold Coast for a customer, as he was not confident after fitting it himself and the two securith bolts are in as well as hot glued ( hot glue was mainly holding base in place while you drill the holes and cut the foil covervin side)
As you see it hardly sticks above the hard case coolite and the padded backpack has protected mine for years. Johnno Hennessy. Keep flying on the green side of the grass.
Thanx johnno, I'm glad I asked this before jumping in kinda opened up a can of worms ? Seeing as I dont have any issues, I'm going to sit back abit on the H+, got to do more research, but it must improve the signal because yuneec added a tower on the 920 if i'm correct ?
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I use this one and it’s a game changer!
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PatR
Premium Pilot
Just to be accurate, the tower was not “added” to the 920, the 920 was designed with the GPS tower from day one, following what was at the time the common practice of elevating the GPS on every multirotor being constructed by anyone. The 920 design and release occurred prior to the design and release of the Typhoon H.
Yuneec also designed and produced the Chroma, another precursor to the H, that was sold by Horizon Hobby under the brand name of Blade, which also incorporated a GPS elevating, folding mast.
If we desired to be accurate we might say the GPS tower was omitted from the Typhoon H design. If we were to spend some time reviewing forums and threads discussing the Blade products and 920 we might find the prevalence of GPS and fly away issues was not often experienced with Yuneec products until the appearance of the Typhoon H. The Blade Chroma did experience some GPS issues, but the occurrence typically was associated with units where the owner forgot to raise the folding mast prior to flight.
Two be fair, there is more than one reason not to employ a GPS mast or tower. One already mentioned is portability, as a tower makes the aircraft larger, but folding masts were created to alleviate that problem. A second reason is applicable for people that crash aircraft; a mast, along with landing gear and gimbals, becomes one of the most commonly broken parts during a crash. Eliminating the mast reduces the number of parts that would be broken during a crash. The third reason is production cost. Eliminating the mast reduces parts count and assembly labor.
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