H+ Distance Tests?

[Barton]

I'm still astonished that you lost both the control and telemetry signal. Just to confirm, the two stick antennas were vertical and not horizontal?

I am too! Yes, both stick antennas were vertical. I'll try the test again tomorrow. I double-checked the stick antennas and they were firmly screwed into the connectors. I'm hoping the results will be different (better) but the setup will be the same...

BTW, just ordered the 4Hawks antennas for the 520.

 

[Barton]

Ran two more tests today. I had to move the location of the ST16S about 30 feet from the previous test which might have contributed to the difference in results... Once I get the 4Hawks antennas I will do yet another set of A-B comparison tests with better control for the test conditions .

Previous test: RTL triggered at about 1,200 feet horizontal distance, 200 feet vertical.
Today's test (same flight path): RTL triggered at about 1,700 feet horizontal distance, 200 feet vertical.

2.4 GHz antennas pointing vertically, 5.8 GHz patch antenna pointing at H+(flat/top part of antenna facing H+). In all my tests, the control was lost before video feed was lost, although video feed did stutter just before RTL was triggered.

 

[Steve Carr]

In all my tests, the control was lost before video feed was lost, although video feed did stutter just before RTL was triggered.

You should not loose the control signal at that distance. You should be able to maintain control for at least a mile with LOS. I suggest you contact Yuneec using the online Live Chat on Monday morning.

 

[Barton]

I'll make another test on Sunday, this time eliminating the trees as a source of signal degradation and increasing the height to 400 feet.

I stumbled upon a recent posting on YouTube where the poster got 2.3 miles using the 4Hawks antenna on a Typhoon H. The video, while actually not worth watching again, did illustrate the test conditions:

1. flying over a city
2. H probably at 400 feet
3. launch area and immediate down-range was free of tall vegetation

It will be interesting to see how the distance performance changes. Once I get the 4Hawks, I'll repeat this test as well.

If I still have poor range performance, Yuneec CS will be contacted.

 

[Barton]

The testing continues...
Eliminated most of the tree interference (but not all) and the loss of control distance moved out to 2,750 feet. Interesting to me was that the control WiFi was again lost before the video link wifi. Next test is to remove the video recorder from the equation. Presently, it is mounted on the back of the sun screen (as per @Ty Pilot ). I suspect it might be interfering with the 2.4 GHz control signal. Will be interesting to see how the 4Hawks antenna performs.

On the plus side, 2,700 feet is about twice the distance I expect to fly for VLOS so if I can maintain a clear line of site, I should be OK from being surprised with a control dropout.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Looking forward to what you find with the 4Hawks and its good to see the 2,700 feet number with stock antenna's

 

[YuKay]

The stick antennas must be pointed up and the patch panel pointed at the aircraft. The leaves on vegetation have a high moisture content so the signal will be attenuated. The one mile range is under ideal conditions. I fly in similar conditions as you mention and I only made one flight with the stock antennas. I anticipated problems with the video and had a 4Hawks antenna installed for the 2nd flight.

You mention loosing control signal at 1200'. Are you certain? If you loose control the H Plus will initiate RTH and fly back until it regains the signal. The video is 5.8 GHz wifi, the telemetry is 2.4 Ghz and the control is 2.4. The telemetry and control signals are not wifi and have a much longer distance than the video.

The wifi app will only show you the signal from the camera on 5.8. The 2.4 signal will not appear since it's not wifi.

Perhaps the mushroom antenna is buggy. I have read a couple of reports - including this review - of screens going black with the H Plus only 10 metres away! But fitting the patch antenna instead seemed to fix the problem.

 

[Barton]

Perhaps the mushroom antenna is buggy. I have read a couple of reports - including this review - of screens going black with the H Plus only 10 metres away! But fitting the patch antenna instead seemed to fix the problem.

YuKay, for these tests I'm using the flat, patch 5.8 GHz antenna for video feed. My surprise is that the 5.8 wifi connection seems to hold on better that the 2.4, and the 2.4 is normally considered to be the stronger connection. That is why I'm wondering if the video recorder could somehow be messing more with the 2.4 signal... hopefully the 4Hawks antenna will arrive in a week or so and I can do a more rigorous A-B test.

 

[John Dube]

Thanks Steve. I'll order the 4Hawks for the 520. It will be interesting to see what happens when I repeat my 'test'. Interesting, to me, is that I had no video drop outs before I lost the control WiFi and the RTL was triggered (using the flat, patch 5.8 GHz antenna).

I have the 4 hawks on my TH. I purchased it with the intention of obtaining a stronger signal for reliability and confidence. I fly around construction sites and in Urban areas.

I am fortunate that I have a Marsh preserve to fly over and know the owner who provided permission to fly there. This area is a mile across and I wanted to test the range of the H for confidence in signals. This is a wide open area, no bldgs., people, towers, or other obstacles or interference, and no airspace to worry about. There are trees at the far side, however above 150 feet AGL you are high enough to have a clear sight from the ST16 and the H. For testing only as I have no inclination to fly BVLOS, I flew out until I started loosing video at roughly 3000 feet. With the 4 Hawks I flew out to about 1-1/4 miles with a good strong video and control signal before turning back. The 4 Hawks will definitely improve your signal and provide confidence in your system.

 

[Rubik]

I've noticed with my trusty old TH that video ALWAYS dies before control at distance. Since that is not the case with your TH+, Barton, I suspect there is some other problem, like the proximity of your video recorder or faulty antenna connection, external or internal.

Also, increasing altitude usually improves the video range.

Finally, the direction the CGO3+ camera was pointed had a direct effect on the video signal. With the camera pointed directly away from me or directly towards me, the signal was fine. Turn the camera 90-deg and the video would freeze. This is most likely due to the location and mounting orientation of the antenna inside the CGO3+ camera housing. I am pleased to see the relocation of the camera antenna on the outside of the TH+ in a vertical orientation where it should be unaffected by camera orientation. I expect that will the eliminate the directional issue I saw with the TH.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

Edit: Moved per your request, thanks for noticing your mispost.

A topic that I have not seen discussed (or found with search) on this forum is the maximum range distance of the H Plus.

I know the specs state 1 mile which exceeds VSOL unless you are an eagle or hawk so I hadn't worried too much about this topic, until today.

Today I did an unintentional distance test with my H+ (thought I would have no issues reaching my location of interest) and was surprised to loose the 2.4 GHz control WiFi connection at 1,200 feet (yes, there was a single row of trees that the WiFi had to penetrate). Tried the test twice, lost the signal twice at roughly the same distance. Good news - Return To Launch Works when WiFi control is lost!

There were two aspects to my surprise:

1. 1,200 feet is a long way from 5,280 feet. While I didn't expect to fly to 1 mile, losing connection at 20% of maximum range doesn't reflect a very robust control system. Also, part of my surprise was the characteristics of how I lost connection. There was no warning, just suddenly the video locked and then a warning on the display that WiFi was lost. What seemed like an eternity elapsed before a 'WiFi connection established' was displayed along with the RTL activated message.
2. I was monitoring the WiFi signal strength icons and was down to 1 bar for the video signal WiFi (using the patch antenna) but the 2.4 GHz was still all bars showing. Thanks to the video recorder for the ST monitor, I can review how the WiFi indicators performed just before signal loss. I claim the 2.4 GHz indicator is NOT dynamic but just an icon. It went from full signal to loss of signal in 1 second... (on both tests).

I stumbled across this test of the Itelite system: Typhoon H Plus ITELITE Booster Test where the tester turned around at 4,000 feet without loss of either 2.4 GHz or 5.8 GHz signals. Other than the downside of 'yet another addition' to my ST16S accumulation of goodies, it might be worth considering this booster system. Not because I want to exceed VLOS but because I want to have a ROBUST control system within VLOS that I can rely on...

Great post.
We all want a good
Connection.

Edit: Moved per your request, thanks for noticing your mispost.

A topic that I have not seen discussed (or found with search) on this forum is the maximum range distance of the H Plus.

I know the specs state 1 mile which exceeds VSOL unless you are an eagle or hawk so I hadn't worried too much about this topic, until today.

Today I did an unintentional distance test with my H+ (thought I would have no issues reaching my location of interest) and was surprised to loose the 2.4 GHz control WiFi connection at 1,200 feet (yes, there was a single row of trees that the WiFi had to penetrate). Tried the test twice, lost the signal twice at roughly the same distance. Good news - Return To Launch Works when WiFi control is lost!

There were two aspects to my surprise:

1. 1,200 feet is a long way from 5,280 feet. While I didn't expect to fly to 1 mile, losing connection at 20% of maximum range doesn't reflect a very robust control system. Also, part of my surprise was the characteristics of how I lost connection. There was no warning, just suddenly the video locked and then a warning on the display that WiFi was lost. What seemed like an eternity elapsed before a 'WiFi connection established' was displayed along with the RTL activated message.
2. I was monitoring the WiFi signal strength icons and was down to 1 bar for the video signal WiFi (using the patch antenna) but the 2.4 GHz was still all bars showing. Thanks to the video recorder for the ST monitor, I can review how the WiFi indicators performed just before signal loss. I claim the 2.4 GHz indicator is NOT dynamic but just an icon. It went from full signal to loss of signal in 1 second... (on both tests).

I stumbled across this test of the Itelite system: Typhoon H Plus ITELITE Booster Test where the tester turned around at 4,000 feet without loss of either 2.4 GHz or 5.8 GHz signals. Other than the downside of 'yet another addition' to my ST16S accumulation of goodies, it might be worth considering this booster system. Not because I want to exceed VLOS but because I want to have a ROBUST control system within VLOS that I can rely on...

Great post.
We all want a good connection
So you like the booster ?
What is the name + do you know
The cost please.
Thanks. Keith

 

[Barton]

Great post.
We all want a good
Connection.


Great post.
We all want a good connection
So you like the booster ?
What is the name + do you know
The cost please.
Thanks. Keith

I don't have the booster yet, it is scheduled to arrive tomorrow (Thursday, Aug 2).
Here is the order link (Raptor SR / designed for Yuneec H520 / ST16S). The price is $119.00 plus $25.10 (ships from Poland) for a total of $144.10 .

 

[KEITH KUHN]

I don't have the booster yet, it is scheduled to arrive tomorrow (Thursday, Aug 2).
Here is the order link (Raptor SR / designed for Yuneec H520 / ST16S). The price is $119.00 plus $25.10 (ships from Poland) for a total of $144.10 .

Thanks
I will check this out. Perhaps
For my typhoon H 480 down the road.

 

[Barton]

OK, the 4Hawks arrived and I had a short period of time to do some testing. Since time was limited, I cut to the chase and did just two tests - first with the pointy 2.4 and patch 5.8 antennas and second with the 4Hawks. In both cases the video recorder was located in the 'extender' tray on top of the Power Bank battery. A 'side' observation is that moving the video recorder did NOT seem to impact the number of satellites seen by the ST16S. They remain at around 6 to 9.

Test conditions:
This time launched to the east with a clear visual line of sight for the entire test. The flight path was over a recently harvested field and along a county road so there was almost no danger of losing the H+ as long as it came down on the flight path.

Test 1 Results (standard issue antennas):
Elevation: 220 feet AGL
Flew 5,000 feet before control signal was lost. At this point the 5.8 GHz video showed 1 bar and was still responding. System kicked in RTL. At 3,800 feet the WiFi control signal was reestablished.

Test 2 Results (4Hawks antennas):
Elevation: 220 feet AGL
Flew 6,200 feet before control signal was lost, RTL initiated. 5.8 GHz video showed 1 bar and was responding. At about 4,200 feet WiFi control signal was reestablished. I stopped the RTL, took the H+ to 395 feet, turned it back around and continued the distance test. At 395 feet AGL, I had control up to 7,570 feet where I stopped because I was at the end of the field and about to venture over a forested area. I rotated the H+ a couple of times and dropped control signal once so I may have been getting close to the limit anyway.

I apologize for not being able to complete a simple set of tests with fully consistent test conditions for a definitive A-B comparison (may be a good thing I'm now retired ). That said, the 4Hawks antennas do seem to provide some additional signal margin. Adding an additional 1,200 feet in a true A-B comparison is significant considering that, at least for me, 1,200 feet is about my total VLOS distance . Since I don't plan on flying to 7,500 feet distance on a routine basis, I will say that the 4Hawks antennas provide the control signal margin I desired.

The one last test I want to make is to duplicate the original test I did that triggered my concern, which is to see how much better the 4Hawks antennas are at penetrating the tree foliage barrier.

 

[PatR]

Something I’m liking about you very much is your systematic approach to testing in developing baselines and A-B comparisons. You also make note of the little stuff many forget to capture.

Your GPS counts are a bit troubling though. Is the test location in a valley with much higher bordering terrain?

 

[Barton]

Something I’m liking about you very much is your systematic approach to testing in developing baselines and A-B comparisons. You also make note of the little stuff many forget to capture.

Your GPS counts are a bit troubling though. Is the test location in a valley with much higher bordering terrain?

Thank you, Pat. I appreciate your comment . Maybe I actually did learn something during my career in R&D product development and testing...

Regarding the satellite count, no, the test location is on basically flat farm land by Adair Village. Also, when I test the ST at home (8 miles from the aerodrome) the ST satellite count is basically the same. The H+, when sitting no more than 10 - 20 feet can have a satellite count of 17 - 20 while the ST is struggling to get 7-9. I'm not going worry too much as the important GPS count goes with the H+ (as long as I don't use the 'ST is HOME' feature for RTL and/or don't use the follow me mode much. At present, I don't see using these features so this isn't a big concern. If I want to do follow me, I'll probably get the wizard wand as moving around with my ST plus extended tray is great for 'stationary piloting' but I wouldn't want to be walking around with it over rough terrain.

Question for other H+ owners: What kind of ST and H+ satellite counts are you seeing, and specifically, is the ST count lower than for the H+?

Just finished a quick satellite count in my back yard using my smartphone and a windsurfing GPS speed sailing app - 17 to 20 sats immediately locked in. Very similar to the H+ counts I'm seeing.

 

[KEITH KUHN]

OK, the 4Hawks arrived and I had a short period of time to do some testing. Since time was limited, I cut to the chase and did just two tests - first with the pointy 2.4 and patch 5.8 antennas and second with the 4Hawks. In both cases the video recorder was located in the 'extender' tray on top of the Power Bank battery. A 'side' observation is that moving the video recorder did NOT seem to impact the number of satellites seen by the ST16S. They remain at around 6 to 9.

Test conditions:
This time launched to the east with a clear visual line of sight for the entire test. The flight path was over a recently harvested field and along a county road so there was almost no danger of losing the H+ as long as it came down on the flight path.

Test 1 Results (standard issue antennas):
Elevation: 220 feet AGL
Flew 5,000 feet before control signal was lost. At this point the 5.8 GHz video showed 1 bar and was still responding. System kicked in RTL. At 3,800 feet the WiFi control signal was reestablished.

Test 2 Results (4Hawks antennas):
Elevation: 220 feet AGL
Flew 6,200 feet before control signal was lost, RTL initiated. 5.8 GHz video showed 1 bar and was responding. At about 4,200 feet WiFi control signal was reestablished. I stopped the RTL, took the H+ to 395 feet, turned it back around and continued the distance test. At 395 feet AGL, I had control up to 7,570 feet where I stopped because I was at the end of the field and about to venture over a forested area. I rotated the H+ a couple of times and dropped control signal once so I may have been getting close to the limit anyway.

I apologize for not being able to complete a simple set of tests with fully consistent test conditions for a definitive A-B comparison (may be a good thing I'm now retired ). That said, the 4Hawks antennas do seem to provide some additional signal margin. Adding an additional 1,200 feet in a true A-B comparison is significant considering that, at least for me, 1,200 feet is about my total VLOS distance . Since I don't plan on flying to 7,500 feet distance on a routine basis, I will say that the 4Hawks antennas provide the control signal margin I desired.

The one last test I want to make is to duplicate the original test I did that triggered my concern, which is to see how much better the 4Hawks antennas are at penetrating the tree foliage barrier.

What you have done so far sounds pretty good. Keep us posted we want to hear more from you. Not knowing why for what purpose you bought your typhoon for, just remember do not push its limits too far.
as time goes on you will be more than happy to push it out to a thousand feet are 1200 f
To get the video shots you need.
You will be very disappointed if you crash it or lose it. Which so
So many of us have done.
Keith Kuhn

 

[Ty Pilot]

I am regularly seeing 10 - 12 Sats on the TX and 20 Plus on the bird. The aircraft acquires satellites very quickly but the controller takes a while longer. Normally, when I see 7 (Controller) I will start up, and the count will continue to rise as I fly.

 

[Barton]

I am regularly seeing 10 - 12 Sats on the TX and 20 Plus on the bird. The aircraft acquires satellites very quickly but the controller takes a while longer. Normally, when I see 7 (Controller) I will start up, and the count will continue to rise as I fly.

Thanks Patrick. At least the ST/H+ sat count trend is consistent. I'm seeing a few less sats on both the ST and H+ so maybe it is just my physical location in the USA.

 

[PatR]

Perhaps coincidental, during the period I was flying an H in the Gorge areas I rarely obtained as many satellites as others reported elsewhere.