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Having difficulty with Drone Police in Florida

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I live in a gated community in Delray Beach, FL. One of the block captains (a term for an elected condo owner representing a block of condos) has turned into a Nazi. I am a responsible individual and would like to stay legal and on everyone's good side but right now I am chaffing from this oversite. So far, I plan to obtain minutes of the Home Owners Association to check for irregularities since they have rules to follow. I am checking with AOPA, being enrolled in their legal services plan. I've googled drone laws in Florida and have found "political subdivision may not enact or enforce an ordinance or resolution relating to ..l" which sounds like Florida has pre-empted any control of drones supplementing the Federal Aviation Regs (Part 107).

Anyone that has been involved in a similiar situation and can make some meaningful suggestions, I would appreciate any suggestions. I am a licensed pilot and operating illegally is not an option.

Thanks in advance.
 
If you're a licenced pilot and you're not hovering/peeping right outside/through your neighbours windows or above any half naked sunbathers, in other words not invading anyone's privacy and you are taking all required safety measures for whatever your purpose, I would politely tell the guy where the back door is! Apologies if this isn't helpful advice but these Nazi's need putting in their place :)
 
I can't speak for Florida, but here in Kentucky your "Personal Airspace" ceases at the peak of the roof. Of course if you have a one story house and your neighbors is two story then it would be their roof peak for their "Personal Airspace" (common sense).. I know most of my neighbors and let them know in advance that I will be flying in the area, and times.
 
I've had the police called on me by a drone-hating neighbor who told the dispatcher I was peeping into his property. He showed up with our county's citation numbers for 'peeping' and being a nuisance, and asked to see my certificate and numbers on my drone. He said if I didn't have them, he would have warned me to get it, and could issue a citation for flying an unregistered drone. I showed him the vido, which had nothing of the neighbor's property except the tops of his trees.

He advised me that what I was doing was legal, flying over a neighborhood to get real-estate video, but it would get complaints, and suggested practicing in empty parks or school yards and rattle off a list.

Then, he went to the neighbor and told him that he could be cited for making a false report since I was nowhere near peeping, and at 200 feet was not being a nuisance.

I hope you get similar support from your police? Virginia had just passed the 'no locality can make drone restrictions' law and the police were aware of it...
 
I rarely fly in my neighborhood, to avoid instances like you mentioned.
 
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In general LEA’s do not have jurisdiction over drones but the second they mention being a suspected threat to public safety or a public nuisance all restraints are off. They can run those tangents to the ground.

LEA’s have been instructed by the FAA to obtain information related to the drone, the operator, and perceived infractions and report them to the FAA for further investigation. Whatever the FAA does with such reports is still pretty much an unknown.

HOA’s are a hotbed for people that were never able to obtain power in their personal or professional lives, providing an opportunity to self inflate themselves. If you know the law better than they do and remain within it there’s some satisfaction to be had with civil harassment litigation against an HOA or member. OTOH, HOA’s are extremely adept at nitpicking the CC&R’s, making life miserable for those they hold a grudge against.
 
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That would be news to the FAA. LEOs have absolutely no jurisdiction over federal laws.

Thanks for pointing this out! The very nice officer may have said something like 'write you up' if you don't have the certificate and I said 'citation'.

So far, I've been approached by one police officer and a park manager and they've asked to see my certificate and numbers on the drone. Since I've got them I haven't lived through the next steps.
 
In general LEA’s do not have jurisdiction over drones but the second they mention being a suspected threat to public safety or a public nuisance all restraints are off. They can run those tangents to the ground.

LEA’s have been instructed by the FAA...

HOA’s are a hotbed for people that were never able to obtain power...

Thanks muchly for this discussion, this is good for me to see. The officer who approached me had citation #s for peeping and being a nuisance on the little slip of paper his Sargent gave him for the call and told me to read them since that's all they could dig up to charge me with.

After seeing my registration # and certificate, he agreed I was operating legally, mentioned airspace treated as 'an easement'. He reviewed the video from the four minute flight, saw it was neither peeping nor nuisance, chatted about places to fly unmolested by drone-haters, and went to tell my neighbor I was in the right and he could be cited for lying to police.

I guess if I'd crashed through somebody's windshield or had a flame thrower on the drone the slip of paper would have citation numbers for 'threat to public safety'?

Thanks again for your insight. I see so many articles about drone-haters and bad police response that I'm pleased to post about a good police response...
 
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Thanks for pointing this out! The very nice officer may have said something like 'write you up' if you don't have the certificate and I said 'citation'.

So far, I've been approached by one police officer and a park manager and they've asked to see my certificate and numbers on the drone. Since I've got them I haven't lived through the next steps.

I'll add that according to the FAA guidance to LEO they can take down information and otherwise document an incident. But they cannot, for instance, cite you for not having registration. They can also enforce local laws that dictate where you can fly from, i.e. where you can be standing when you fly. But nobody except the FAA has authority over what happens once you are in the air.
 
Also to consider is that police must see a crime being committed or have positive evidence of a crime or infraction to issue a citation or make an arrest. They cannot act on hearsay. People will say anything when they are irritated with a neighbor for any reason in order to use local police as a lever to obtain satisfaction or revenge. If police do not personally witness an offending act they don’t do much more than have a conversation with the accused. It’s at that point the accused can turn a discussion into an arrest or citation by providing an admission of their activities through conversation, or as many aerial video operators might do, by providing them video of their activities.

Conversations with police authorities is a slippery slope. Unless we are absolutely positive no part of an aerial video depicts anything that can be even loosely construed as criminal or violating civil code we should not show them to police without a court order. It’s similar to what can happen if you get pulled over for speeding. Exceeding the speed limit alone might get you just a verbal warning, or at worst a citation. It’s when they ask if you’ve consumed any alcohol prior that you can get in deep trouble. A reply in the affirmative has a high probability of putting you under arrest.

So pay attention when being questioned by police as they are trained to use conversation that seems polite and innocuous but is in reality a means to encourage people to incriminate themselves.
 
I can't speak for Florida, but here in Kentucky your "Personal Airspace" ceases at the peak of the roof. Of course if you have a one story house and your neighbors is two story then it would be their roof peak for their "Personal Airspace" (common sense).. I know most of my neighbors and let them know in advance that I will be flying in the area, and times.

Applying property rights to airspace is rooted in precedent. The Supreme Court once ruled in favor of Causby vs United States. Seems Causby's chickens were dying because of military flights over his house as low as 83'! While the Supreme Court acknowledge that a person's home ownership does not extend to the heavens, it does go to at least 83' as they ruled in his favor.
 
This was way back in 1946, It mentions nothing about Causby ownership up to 83' This was a glide path to the runway, but pilots were flying lower and disturbing the chickens sleep. he was awarded compensation of $2000.00, lot of mula back then.

United States v. Causby, 328 U.S. 256 (1946)

The United States v. Causby (1946) - Bill of Rights Institute

The noise and glare from planes disturbed the Causbys’ sleep; the noise from the planes also caused their chickens to die and made it impossible for them to sustain their farm.
  1. The Causbys argued that the government had caused them to lose the value of their land, and that they were therefore entitled to just compensation.
  2. The Court agreed with the Causbys, finding that because the government directly caused a diminution of a property’s value, that a partial taking had occurred. The Causbys were entitled to just compensation.
  3. Answers will vary. The first three scenarios are based on actual Supreme Court cases:respectively, the Court found there was no taking in Tahoe Sierra Preservation Council, Inc. v. Tahoe Regional Planning Agency (2002); the Court did find takings in Lucas v. South Carolina Coastal Council (1992), and Loretto v. Teleprompter Manhattan CATV Corp. (1982).
 
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All above are great advice and legal pointers, all discuss the FAA jurisdiction which is all advice to follow to avoid problems, and the other common rule to apply is to have these discussions with law enforcement in a non-challenging, calm, respectful manner. The PSC (police street court) will normally always favor the one maintaining control and if felt unjust, pursuing a legal challenge should be applied later without announcing it as a threat; telling police and the surrounding neighborhood the legal action tactic doesn't normal favor your case. I've often found when police show up, after a short discussion with both parties the officer will often reproach me with questions and friendly discussions. Let the neighbor bury himself, the more rational & calm you present, he'll get worse and end up having the officer work in your favor.

The argument of private property & air space with a "drone" hasn't really been "challenged" in a Court as of yet, specially to a point where it can be used as precedent or to argue local or state laws. Although, the cases sited above and an additional ruling by the Supreme Court stating there is "no expectation of privacy in your back yard". Many of these privacy cases were filed against Government and Law Enforcement Agencies and their surveillance; all used one form or another of challenging privacy & trespassing. Some included aerial in low altitude: Pole Climber, Tall structures, and Aerial fly over. I wasn't able to locate any ruling that favored the Defendent (property owner / company) winning an aerial drone trespassing case.

The comment above on maximum property altitude has many variations beginning with the WWII landing path case ruling and several other examples. The one that normally informally wins with PSC at location (avoiding court files, and discouraged), and the lower courts is "practical common sense" indicating the "tallest structure" (not tree or antenna) asset on property, and some have applied up to 10-15 feet above: Exp: Roof and person performing work on roof, the "working zone" is included in many common sense findings. This isn't to be spread to open land, such as Ag Farm, the silo height applies to the operation center, not the open land of fields. I personally find while in 2 story structure areas, if maintaining 50-100 feet above roof or 50-100 feet above multistory residential you're not often challenged by police, but I'll also indicate I'll take all action to reduce any unnecessary flight over the complaining neighbor's property.

All the above can be challenged in Court, and assumed will continued to be challenged. With the recent changes being introduced with FAA regulations and specific sections applying to RC Aircraft that are entertaining "legal representatives" for the FAA may soon include federal, local or state representative. The details or the subsequent court challenges haven't formulated as of current to understand the substance it will include when the dust of the legal pen settles into legal documents.

I'm not sure of your RC status (PT107 Commercial, Hobbyist) and in this discussion of "Trespassing / Privacy" is not applicable because the major differential factor is "generated income" and I didn't read you were working for fee. It's often stated if you have your PT107, you have "this & that" rights or legal passage. In all practicality, the Hobbyist has (currently) the widest latitude in legal allowances compared to the PT107 exercising as a Commercial Fee project. Although, as a PT107 if you can prove or verify prior to flight you were performing as a "Hobbyist' a PT107 also has the additional latitude as operating as a Hobbyist. Actually, if not needed under current regulations I wouldn't pursue a PT107 certification for pleasure flying.

The PT107 has more legal challenges to defend based on their perceived greater understanding of the regulations. A prosecutor enjoys a professional or certified defendant, more substance to challenge if you're being charged with a matter that isn't clearly in your favor... such as the above trespassing related charges if pursued in court. I personally know several lawyers, law enforcement, marshals, etc that fly as Hobbyist due to the wider legal latitude. One example is night flying for fireworks... PT107 requires a night waiver, Hobbyist needs to notify local tower of intentions.

You have the right to fly the sky as long as you're not violating any applicable legal code, and currently that pretty much includes any airspace not in an FAA NFZ and attitudes, maintaining minimal airspace above property, and any state or local rules that might "indirectly" apply even though they could be challenged (noise, wildlife, etc) it's not worth the expense & time compared to avoiding the point of complaint. Although, as PatR suggests... don't provide material that can be used as evidence.

If you know you're filming a wide FOV from 200' show it if you feel the need. If you unknowingly during a warm-up hover & making RC settings positioned in your yard and your camera was pointed to neighbor's windows or suntanning deck at 35' AGL... that might sting a bit! I'd also suggest never to offer flight logs as proof until challenged in court, they could be used against you. My personal method, I often take a few stills of the distant landscape, clouds, etc... and will show those as a gesture of peace and to verify my altitude and position. I won't offer video, often just say I'm taking stills or testing a flight pattern.

Enjoy the flights in warm FL temps! It's 5 F degrees with -15 F Wind chill and snow here... such pretty snow! :mad:
 
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