Is the Typhoon H still limited to 400 feet?

[kd4pbs]

I don't remember any major changes in any rules about RC aircraft, but I do remember that recently there have been some changes that don't really hold much water. The 400' limit is not a rule from what I remember, but more of a suggestion by the AMA. For sure, there are plenty of RC aircraft that would be rendered useless if a 400' limit were law; gliders, high-speed Deltas, turbines, etc...
Seems that the FAA has long wanted to reach out and regulate everything they think they can regulate, but have never had much luck with RC aircraft, other than the obvious rules about operating within a certain distance from an airport,over which they've always had jurisdiction. Then the media decided to call anything that flew via remote control a "Drone", and all of the sudden, the FAA decided they'd start requiring some sort of crazy registration tax for all of them. I have yet to figure out exactly how charging a tax would prevent people from doing stupid things, but I can only assume this was due to tons of morons flying these easy-to-fly aircraft in unsafe areas and manners, versus in the safe manner in which RC aircraft have typically been flown prior to some Big-News-Network-Talking-Head mis-using the word, "Drone", and inexpensive, ready-and-easy-to-fly whirlygig kits coming to the market. For sure RC aeromodeling used to be a "more elite" type of endeavor, in which only those who wished to invest in the time, effort, education, and money would dare venture deeply; kind of a self-limiting hobby. If you didn't have the brains to fly your aircraft properly, it was of little consequence, since even if you did spend $1000 to get into the hobby, you wouldn't be in it long after crashing your whirlygig due to lack of experience, and you'd typically give up before killing yourself or someone else. If you did get into the hobby and stay, it was because you were mentored by a more experienced, conscientious RC pilot that also taught you that flying over a group of schoolkids or picnickers in the park was cause for being drawn and quartered.
I remember my buddy actually registering his Phantom somethingorother a few years ago. He's also an RC pilot. I asked him if he planned on registering his RC Decathlon as well since he can and has fastened his GoPro up to it, to which he just scoffed a little. Seems someone in the gubment finally removed their head from their rectum and discovered that the FAA could not govern RC aircraft, as that registration rule has been overturned. This is one of the reasons I decided to go to the dark side and purchase one of these easy-to-fly whirlygig thingies that already had a camera mounted upon it to add to my small platoon of personal entertainment/frustration aircraft.
Just as a note, I could be 100% wrong (and wouldn't surprise me one bit) as I have been out of the hobby for a few years, and have not paid much attention to the goings-on of the FAA and RC operators as of late.
Heck, after re-reading what I wrote here, perhaps it is about time some regulatory body stepped in and required people to fly certain ways. After watching a few YouTube videos and reading forum posts by these people who fly "drones", and break all kinds of common-sense rules in doing so, it seems it's only a matter of time before someone kills someone with their "drone".
Problem is, who'd do the enforcement?

 

[PatR]

There is no 400' rule for hobby level fliers in the U.S. People that actually read the law are well aware of that. However, the regs concerning careless and reckless operation of an aircraft DO extend to hobby level flier. The agency for enforcement of that is self explanatory.

 

[kd4pbs]

I just read the whole gist of the FAA's rules & regulations concerning RC aircraft in the past few years.
Looks like a couple of years ago, they did indeed try to lump RC aircraft into the same category as regular aircraft, all while already having laws on the books that made it clear that RC aircraft were not regular aircraft, and as such, did not fall under FAA jurisdiction, other than the no-fly and limited-fly areas around airports. As such, thankfully their legislation that they enacted limiting RC aircraft and requiring their registration was successfully overturned in an appeals court.
Seems they had even gone so far as to prevent RC aeromodelers from even flying in and around Washington DC! Wow!
As far as their regulatory powers, all the FAA has ever done is to create guidelines for RC aircraft operation, not laws. In other words, "It's a good idea to do this, and not a good idea to do that." All without any kind of power or teeth to enforce those rules. I guess the responsibility of enforcement falls squarely on local LEOs to use laws that are already on the books that are more-or-less blanket laws to protect the public in case there's a person flying a whirlygig in a dangerous manner.
Lots of changes in my hiatus from the hobby that were then abolished. Glad I didn't have to mess with what happened in the interim, and I hate it for those that did. I hope everyone that paid for this registration debacle gets a full refund with interest.
Thanks, Pat!
And I apologize to all the non-US citizens that thumbed through this thread thinking there was some useful info here

 

[PatR]

kd4pbs

I'm impressed, you are one of the few that have actually read the written U.S. law! Dry reading but it contains a lot of information that separates the amateur from the pro and lays the ground work for what is yet to come. There is not a common operating standard for modeling or "drone" operations at an international level, although LOS is a common rule for a large number of countries. Some establish LOS with a defined distance, some don't. Height limits can be all over the sky. Our AMA did a good job of assuring a height limitation was not levied on amateur modeling. For 70 years RC modeling had not been saddled with an altitude limit. There was no need for one as modelers were generally concentrated in small areas away from the general population and did not go out of their way to conflict with manned aircraft. That could (will?) change as multirotor fliers continue to push their aircraft high and close enough to become a safety hazard to manned aircraft though. The onus has been for preventing a contact event between manned aircraft and a model, so the first time such occurs that one event could easily end all model aviation activities. Legislators would be very quick to put us on the ground as the media would stir a public outcry that would be heard around the world.

Our FAA did not leave enforcement to law enforcement, although LEA's can detain, arrest, and confiscate when they believe an operator has become a public hazard. What the FAA did was instruct our LEA's to report "problem fliers" to the FAA for further administrative action. That's kind of important because a charge being investigated by the FAA does not carry the same "presumption of innocence" our criminal law system does. If someone levies an aviation charge against you you're stuck proving you didn't break the law. There are also no Miranda rights in an administrative action so anything you say in any exchange with an FAA, LEA, or NTSB official can be used as evidence. If they take notes you'll have to prove that what they wrote was not true.

What U.S. operators should clearly understand is that the phrase "careless and reckless operation of an aircraft" was extended to any and everyone that flies an aircraft, be it full scale, model, or multirotor, with no distinction between amateur and professional. That phrase is very poorly defined and has been a point of contention between the FAA, NTSB, and pilots for at least a generation. Careless and reckless can be whatever they want it to be and is often used as a common "catch all" to assure a violation is secured against a pilot. The NTSB is the appellate court one goes to after losing a violation case with the FAA, and it should be noted the NTSB rarely overturns a careless and reckless charge. The penalty for careless and reckless operation often runs in the tens of thousands of $$ and can bring jail time, and always carries a suspension of a pilot certificate for some period of time.

Bottom line, personal responsibility is required and drone operators really need to pay attention to what they are doing. The responsibility for maintaining public safety rests squarely on the shoulders of the drone operator, as does maintaining separation from manned aircraft. The drone operator, amateur or pro, is 100% responsible for maintaining safe separation from manned aircraft and avoiding any conflict. Enforcement in the U.S. has been lax thus far but we should not expect things to remain as they have. Bear in mind there has been at least one fine levied that ended up close to or over a million $, and quite a few in the $5K to $10K range, and criminal charges have been filed against people that have violated areas with temporary flight restrictions. They are starting to get pretty darn serious.

In any case, have fun, but stay safe

 

[kd4pbs]

Thanks for that clarification and the input. Indeed, it seems as if a few nairy-do-wells are ruining it for everyone. When I got into this hobby, I never saw anyone even think about flying their large RC aircraft over a crowd, in a crowded urban area, a shopping mall, or beyond line-of-sight control... even those of us with video cameras and live video downlinks. About as close as one would get to flying in the general population, or even in our backyards were those of us playing with little park flyers that weigh about 6 ounces wet. In fact, this was one of my favorites to fly around the back yard (1 acre lot)...

For sure, it wasn't going to hurt much of anything other than a few gnats that got caught in the prop. I even removed the landing gear and just hand-launched it.
Everything else was (and still is) limited to the local RC club.
Now I see such crapulence as guys bragging they flew 3000 feet out, with the video to prove it. Reminds me of any other criminal out there posting on social media the video proof of their crime. I'm just shaking my head every time I read something like this, and it really does irk me because I know that for every moron bragging about their crime, some authority is taking notes. Eventually someone's going to hurt someone doing these dumb things, and then none of us will be able to fly anything RC ever again.
Sickening.

 

[ThunderChicken]

kd4pbs

I'm impressed, you are one of the few that have actually read the written U.S. law! Dry reading but it contains a lot of information that separates the amateur from the pro and lays the ground work for what is yet to come.

In any case, have fun, but stay safe

I'm not surprised at all. Amateur radio operators have to obey laws that if broken have serious financial consequences. I am a ham too and I got my EXTRA CLASS license and I have charts that I refer to before ever keying up on the air.

 

[kd4pbs]

I'm not surprised at all. Amateur radio operators have to obey laws that if broken have serious financial consequences. I am a ham too and I got my EXTRA CLASS license and I have charts that I refer to before ever keying up on the air.

73, ThunderChicken!
One of these days I'll upgrade.... Not that I couldn't pass the test since I deal with high power RF on a daily basis at work and have to know the theory... I am just too dang short on my round tuits you know

 

[PatR]

I never seem to find enough of those laying around...

 

[ThunderChicken]

I never seen to find enough of those laying around...

You have to buy them or barter for them.

 

[Rayray]

I am just too dang short on my round tuits you know

Hmm. How many do you need to purchase, Matt?

 

[kd4pbs]

Rayray, I'd need at least a case, as long as they're still available. Last time I was in Texas though, I was only able to purchase two. They were used long ago.

 

[Rayray]

Doggone...is this off topic? Did you see the Elvis article in Newsweek?

 

[Dr Delta]

This is all Chinese for the average reader I suppose.

I don't mind tho.

 

[kd4pbs]

Dr. Delta... to sum it all up, fly line-of-sight as high or low as you wish within common-sense reason to not fly around airplanes or airports, and not over people, neighborhoods, or parking lots full of cars and you'll be fine. Don't fly line-of-sight and you're a big meanie. No matter what country you're in. Then, blah, blah, blah... excuses for being lazy, blah blah blah ham radio, blah blah blah severely off topic, Elvis died 40 years ago today, blah blah blah...
The thread kinda turned into what it's like on a slow news day at your local TV news department. We started covering stories on how Mrs. Perkins' restaurant down on the corner of 5th and Elm street has the best Apple Pie as voted on by Mr. Roger's 3rd grade class.

 

[Dr Delta]

 

[Ron R]

I read in another (now closed) thread about firmware 1.30 stopping the Typhoon H from going above 400 feet, even if you change it in the GUI app. I am new to drones and just bought this drone a few days ago. I would like to go above 400 feet if I can. Is this still a limitation? I think the latest is like version 1.34 which what I have.

Thanks.

keep in mind that class E airspace is restricted... class E airspace begins at 700' or 1200' depending on your location.

 

[PatR]

The same laws applicable to recreational users and commercial users are applicable to Class E airspace. Read Part 336 to reveal the facts of the law, not the internet myths and legends. Learn the difference between advisory and regulatory.

 

[PLL]

Was in on a nice meeting with the local Yuneec sales person. He made it pretty clear they Yuneec is not interested in 'forcing' customers to comply with regulations by means of restrictive firmware/software, nor in spying on their flights or in 'phoning home' / grabbing telemetry.

It is best anyway that we are completely responsible for controlling our actions, and we can enjoy relatively open systems to make our experience more interesting or profitable.

 

[PatR]

Some don't realize it, but each individual is always 100% responsible for their actions. They can, and often do, try to blame someone or something else but when the excuses are reduced to the basic starting points it always lands back in their laps.

Full scale pilots do not have airspace limiters built into their avionics suites. Becoming a pilot requires a ground and flight training syllabus with numerous checks along the way to assure the developing pilot fully understands their responsibilities, how to read aerial navigation charts, use appropriate measuring equipment, communicate effectively within the system, and make generally correct decisions when operating an aircraft. Some mistakes are made, and some pay dearly for them in one manner or another. Rare are ATC instructions that place manned aircraft in danger, but they do happen.

When we pick up the controllers for our aircraft we assume the same responsibilities full scale flyers, boaters, drivers of automobiles and other vehicles do. No one makes us fly at all, let alone make our flying location decisions for us. We do these things out of personal choice. The information each needs to operate safely is both free and widely available so there is absolutely no excuse for people to perform stupidly or put others at risk. They only need to exercise the "due diligence" that's expected of them. "Having fun" is not an activity that should put those not actively involved in any danger. Education, practice by taking little steps to explore aircraft capabilities while developing your own, and expanding that practice as our experience generates greater system understanding and improved motor skills, are the best ways I know of to achieve the maximum level of enjoyment from RC aircraft endeavor.