Hello Fellow Yuneec Pilot!
Join our free Yuneec community and remove this annoying banner!
Sign up

Reworked Q500 after Crash to a Carbon based Frame

Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
In May while i flight my Fawn Saving Project, i had suddenly a Crash.
Thankfully the grass was that high, that the Lipo doesn‘t hurt ad ignit itself,
Also the Thermalcam was hung on the lower side of the Gimbal, but about 5 meters far from the Copter.
All wires ripped but i found 100% of it‘s Parts.
The Frame cracked in half and the Landing Gear brokes several Times.

As a only reason i investigated the Lipo Battery.

I flown about 1 Km far at a height of about 80meters to doublecheck my Fawnfinds in late evening.
Flighttime was 5:30 min and the Battery‘s are all fully Charged when Started.
Suddenly the Q500 fells out of heaven like a rock.

No Control was possible, all lights are immediately off when it Start to Chrash.
However, i decided to rework it, because it‘s slow and smooth gimbal was a huge benefit in fawn finding.

So i decide to rework it with a Carbon Frame.

0430B801-781E-41E6-B9CB-679788CDBAC8.jpeg

Firstly i checked my Options and find a cheap foldable Frame platform for a 4 Rotor Copter by JMT with 60cm rotorspan.
I decided this will be a great improvement.
So i build the Frame and put it onto a scale, to see where i am with the Weight.
640 gramms seems too much, so let‘s started to reduce the Weight on all Options i have.

73C643F8-8890-4CD8-A47C-420228BCC7E5.jpeg

The first option to save was exchange all the Brass spacers to Aluminum and Nylon ones and
Even all Screws themself are exchanged to Aluminums.
At all i saved so 86 gramms. - Whow- not Bad.
Than i decided to just use 2 Screwsets for the Rotorplatforms instead of 4.
They appears to be stiff enough even with 2 Screwsets and a twist on the motors wasn‘t possible until release this 2 Screws.


Next was the implement of the Electronics.
I implemented the Q500 flight Controller near the original place to keep the Ratios as Original as i can.
Same with the compass and the rest of Electronics.
The gimbal actually was mounted just on a single gently Frame, what shall broke in case of a harder Crash.

The ESC wires must be enlarged, so i ordered also a silicon insulated triple cable with 0,3mm for wire enhancement.
I ordered 1,5sqmm silicone wire to exchange the original ESC Power Wires what was little heavier than the 1sqmm what was originally in, but for better Conduction i decided to improve it a little more

The compass was used with it‘s q500 mount, just secured additionally with a little silicone to keep it safe in place.
The last Step was to cut out the outsides of the upper canopy to have a nicer look instead a pure Frame.
So also the GPS was nearly on it‘s original place and it works like a Charme.

The first flight was a disaster, 10 meters up and tilts to nearly vertically and complete crash into a Tree in full Speed
than doing few Saltos on the Ground.
- Dang- i be a little pissed of on That.
40 bucks for Popellers are done also the endcap of batterycase riped.
The rest survived this crash without any damage.

I investigated what was the Reason and found......
Aaaaaaaah stupid idiot,
i mounted the Compass before i alligned it and forgot it to realign how it must be sat finally
and stick it the wrong way.
What wonder me, because i did a compass calibration an it appears to be fine.

- ok simple solution release the silicone, twist the Compass to it‘s final position silicone it again and redo the complete Setup.

The next few Flighttests work with 100% success.
Even up to 40Km/h windgust it wobbles shortly but keep stable back to it‘s position.

9DF74490-7E66-4F71-8829-B9C0CDC872B6.jpeg

F55287DD-9173-426D-995D-DFE7431967A8.jpeg


5FDE308C-A493-43CD-84D6-F5C5B36479E5.jpeg

024F7278-6B1E-42CB-AD6D-EB26834D3510.jpeg
So after the Accumount rips, i decided to exchange it with a Strap.

726EC919-576C-42F7-A89E-F104B8B5CBE2.jpeg

Now it flies like nailed even in short stronger windgusts.
Here i tried it with a normal Videocam to see where was Wild boar in the Corn.

The Lipo Battery weights allone 450 gramms,
At all i ended up with a extreme robust frame at a Airborne weight at less than 1 Kilo

For a better visibility i exchanged the LED‘s on the Wingarms
Left front = Red
Right front = Green
Both Rear = White.
Similar to Aircrafts

The flashers on the canopy side have the same colorscheme to have it visible even in late evening daylight.
They will still work even the Copter may crash and the Battery stopped working.

With a running time of 2-3h i be save to find it, even i must find the Copter after a emergency landing.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
Thanks.

I thinkering about an emergency paracute on the Q5004K rework Because after my Today‘s Testflight i loose my trust in this system a little.

While my today‘s flight ( only in Angle mode), i watched a few things that makes me wondering what was happen.

Flight Preperation:
Charged the both 2 flight batteries fully,
One was a 6300mAh Lipo with the original charger
and a GIFI labeled with 7500mAh what appears to be a 6300 with a „uptuned label“ on a High quality Battery charger to compare them.

And the ST10 remote battery fully charged.
Remove the q500 in the ST10 and do again a new Model and the complete bind procedure. To have a complete clean Setup.
No Yuneec Camerasystem, i use instead a Analog Videosystem with an Runcam VTX, what i used on most of my Copters without any problems, but because of no possibillity it runs with no OSD until now.
Attached is a mini Videocam with 720 tv lines.
Both runs over a separate Voltage converter 12V to 5 V i used also in all my other copters with a Filter.

Calibrate Accelerometer and Compass.
Remove the Battery and give her again a Restart before Airborne.

I pushed the Q up to 30 meters and keep it in that place.
I just keep an eye between the copter and the Remote.
No Stick movements, just push it in height and let it there.

That was my Test Scenario i do on each Copter i build myself. I have now more than 12 Copters of different kinds and all are modified or completely built from scratch.
I tried the gifi Battery on one of my Racers to see how long i can fly and if any issues happen.
This is my reference system i compared several batteries in they’re long lasting quality.




However here my today‘s results on the q500 rework.


First what was suspect, was after about 4 flight minutes The Copter rotates at 40deg to left moves about 20m in that direction, than it rotates opposite and returns itself to its origin position. Maybe that was a GPS glitch i don‘t know but it was scary and shakes my confidence.
The GPS Sign on the ST10 shows permanently 8 Satellites from GPS.

The next issue i watched, while just look at the ST10 was a short time changed Battery symbol with a red highlight and the Battery voltage shows 9,5V for less than a second than it raises again up to 11,8V and appears to be normal.

I landed immediately to check the Battery but it seems fine, the Lipo checker shows me 11,8V
Wondering what that „Voltage drop“ causes.
Time to change the second battery and do a Restart.
Same pocedure as before.

Now i don‘t have that GPS glitch, but again i have the „Powerdrop“ for less than a second.

I decide to keep it now in the Air and i fly‘s normally without any other troubles.


About the height wobbling, it seems that was a cause of the Baro chip when winds hits the sensor directly or maybe a sunlight exposes directly to it.
I knew same situation on several other flight Controllers i use. Maybe a piece of sponge glued over the baro will solve that issue forever

The most urgent question was - what the heck was that short time Voltage drop.
Was it a defect ceramic condenser?
- i knew they be suspected to make sometimes a short under unknown situations.

Was it a missmeasurement or maybe even a Firmware error?


I will do a deeper investigation in that issue and let the batteries run on a testbench in the Copter.
Run it with propellers fixed on a Workbench and make a measurement what currentdrop will be happen over the Time with a Scope there on a continouse run at 50% load
And one run with 100% load peak.

I have several other copters and i tried this Gifi Battery on one of them, just for testing purposes and check if my other Remote an Eachine TX16S with open TX and an Omnibus f4 Pro Flight Controller in my other Copter can repeat that issue.

Here i get immediately a response as an vibration Alarm if battery drops down for less than a second to a low value.
I never got that Drop on the other Copter, so i want to know what was the cause.
Even if i doing a bench test with this Battery on fulltime continouse Load of 90A i cannot reproduce that issue.

Curious what was that
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
355
Age
53
Location
Kozloduy, Bulgaria
Great work. Congratulations!
I have a question.

Because the size of the frame is different, have you some issues in transition phases in the flight? From hover to straightforward, in slow to fast motion, and from motion to stop and hover? I prepared an H480 with motors and motor holders from 520 with the idea to get more flight time or payload weight but the behavior in the air is not stable enough. There is an option to reflash the FC to another project but there is no camera and so on...
 
Last edited:

h-elsner

Premium Pilot
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
1,229
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Is this voltage drop also seen in the flight logs? It should be but who knows. It it depends on current drained then we can think about wiring and the power switch MOSFET's. And there may be a problem with the 5V drop-down converter on the mainboard. There was a discussion in the past relating to the Blade 350QX. Q500 has a similar mainboard, not so far from 350QX. As solution they proposed an additional 100µF capacitor on the 5V rail. This is a picture from my 350QX mainboard that has got the capacitor:
350QX_MB_Elko.jpg
If the power switch MOSFETS (Q500 has also two) are in question they could be short cut. The power switch below will then only reset the CPU.

br HE

PS: Hübscher Rahmen!
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
Thanks for the Flowers.

First @ Vaklin
I didn‘t find any felt differences in each reactions about the Sticks and the reaction of the Copter.
It can be, that the copter works a little bit smoother, but as allready stated i tried it first time with little bigger windgusts and it react felt a little bit less aggressive but fast enough, that the gimbal can smoothened it down to zero on the camera.

When i put it forward on the Stick it reacts like i kew it before with the original frame, maybe a gently little smoother. I find it feels itself much better from the response to the Sticks.

I switched over to the Aeronaut Props and fightened to remove each senseless Gramm to improve my Airtime.

My next step will be a Try with LiFePo Batteries 21750 based with 50A max Powerdrop and 10.000mAh !
Each 2 in parallel and 3 in a row to get the needed 12V.
This batteries be sold for e- Cigarettes, maybe they can handle my copter’s powerconsumption by nearly the same weight ratio as the 6300 mAh Lipo Battery.
So another weight to Powerratio will be given to increase another Airtime.

So in this config i may be able to drop max. 100A short time instead of the 130A what the 6300mAh Lipos will have.
I hope this 100A Peak will be enough.

Therefore i will do a Bench test, where the Copter is fixed on a Table and i measure the Currentconsumption while it runns at full throttle in Peak.
After that Test i decide what is my next Step.

@ H Elsner
Thanks for that advice, i will doublecheck it but all Camera System is independent from the Copter except i use the same Battery Terminals on the Main Battery.
But i will check that out if i have here my problem!
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
Btw another urgently question comes to my mind.
Have anybody an solution to keep the last GPS Data in the ST10 after the copter is loosing the connection?

I thinkering about that, in case of another emergency Land far away to find the Copter next time much faster also in higher Grass.
The last time i loosing my Copter i must search nearly 8h to find it, because it drops about 1,2Km far down to the Ground. I must ride with my Tractor half day to find it.
Another copter was used to rescue it, but it have no Thermal Camera, so it was invisible with a videocam while search it from 50m above it‘s drop position.

Another solution will maybe a Onscreen Display System for a Analog Video or maybe a telemetry sender on 868 MHz additionally to bring the last Data onto a PC.

The major problem i have is, that the ST10 will clear the GPS Display section after the copter is shutdown, even if the ST10 is still up and running.
 

WTFDproject

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
3,359
Reaction score
2,619
Location
North Carolina Piedmont, USA
Btw another urgently question comes to my mind.
Have anybody an solution to keep the last GPS Data in the ST10 after the copter is loosing the connection?

I thinkering about that, in case of another emergency Land far away to find the Copter next time much faster also in higher Grass.
The last time i loosing my Copter i must search nearly 8h to find it, because it drops about 1,2Km far down to the Ground. I must ride with my Tractor half day to find it.
Another copter was used to rescue it, but it have no Thermal Camera, so it was invisible with a videocam while search it from 50m above it‘s drop position.

Another solution will maybe a Onscreen Display System for a Analog Video or maybe a telemetry sender on 868 MHz additionally to bring the last Data onto a PC.

The major problem i have is, that the ST10 will clear the GPS Display section after the copter is shutdown, even if the ST10 is still up and running.
Put a formatted SD card in the ST10. There is an SD card holder under the ST10 Battery. When an SD card is present, each flight will be automatically recorded as a "flight log" on the SD card. One of the items stored in the flight log is the last known GPS coordinates.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
Thanks for your response
but also please accept my ignorance.

I don’t want to invent a wheel new, i knew about that possibillity, but out in the Fields on a mow Day i need a rapid Solution, that is my reason i‘m searching for a little quicker solution instead start a Laptop readout the SD Card find the Datas and type it into a Cellphone to find the Copter.
Best is a solution what can be used out in the fields maybe simply with a cellphone.

To ride 2 h between myhome and the flight scenario can end up in a catastrophe, especially while mowing.

If than my copter crashes and the lipo battery comes into the Mowerdeck a fire can occur and end in a catastrophe on a hot summerday where grass is still dry.

So in this situation it is for my opinion urgently required to act as fast as possible.
 

WTFDproject

Moderator
Staff member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
3,359
Reaction score
2,619
Location
North Carolina Piedmont, USA
Thanks for your response
but also please accept my ignorance.

I don’t want to invent a wheel new, i knew about that possibillity, but out in the Fields on a mow Day i need a rapid Solution, that is my reason i‘m searching for a little quicker solution instead start a Laptop readout the SD Card find the Datas and type it into a Cellphone to find the Copter.
Best is a solution what can be used out in the fields maybe simply with a cellphone.

To ride 2 h between myhome and the flight scenario can end up in a catastrophe, especially while mowing.

If than my copter crashes and the lipo battery comes into the Mowerdeck a fire can occur and end in a catastrophe on a hot summerday where grass is still dry.

So in this situation it is for my opinion urgently required to act as fast as possible.
I do not know of a built-in solution to this need. You may need to employ an aftermarket solution such as a GPS tracker (usually requires a subscription):

Or a loud audible device triggered by a remote control you keep in your pocket:
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
355
Age
53
Location
Kozloduy, Bulgaria
Thank you for the response about movements. I'll investigate further my stack.

About the coordinates. The log file in the SD is a CSV type. You can take a look at the controller with any text viewer.

@h-elsner has a great solution to visualize all parameters in the log files. You can use the idea to prepare an Android application that will do the same in the controller.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
I do not speak about camera but the step-down-converter on the mainboard of the drone.
The related discussion is that one:
Look at #216.

The rest is in already closed forum: www.kopterforum.de at #359379 from Jan 2015

br HE
Ah ok, interesting.
At first i adapted 2 condensers additionally as all my other regulators have.
Firstly a 1 nF to short high frequencies
Secondary a 220uF to smoothened the result Voltage.

1CBA6FFF-40C0-4B69-8B54-1E553C14390F.jpeg
Before the Mod.

0910D458-DF15-4D96-90B7-7AD17E10B656.jpeg
And after rework...

Because of some unknown fails i have another more „theory“ to throw in the Ring.

Maybe you heared about the so called „Tin Whisker“.
This issue was firstly found on Nasa after a deeper Sattelite investigation that fails. They found under Microscope out, that the earlier Leadfree Tin begins to grow a Whisker similar hairs. They grow in different directions suspect feeded by temperature and moisture.

A easy short solution will be to reheat the surface of the PCB and the whisker drops down to it‘s origin and heal itself so.

The Tin Whisker can produce small shorts, they can disable data lines easily and stop them so to working further.
 

h-elsner

Premium Pilot
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
1,229
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Yes, this may be but should only happen for deeper integrated circuits/PCB's i.e. in laptops, mobile phones...
There was also an incident with flame retardants in IC housings. There a lot of hidden reasons...

I would like to see the flight logs from this case (do you have an SD card in the ST10?) because we can see the transient of the voltage drop, duration and what happens around. Sometimes the logs are helpful to exclude some things or for diagnosis to prevent wild guesses here in forum.

br HE
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
25
Age
55
Location
Bavaria
Sadly no,

after i tried the first start after the compass correction, i was that curious if and how it will fly, that i forgot about
To insert it.
I prepared a SD Card alleady, but i forgot to insert it and found it after the flight still on the Desk. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sorry, my fault.

But to find out exactly what happens, i plan few more flights each with an dedicated SD Card, but this depends a little because except today i be very Busy in Office.

To be shure the SD Cards work as expected, I also ordered few SD Cards, to have or better ability to log each flight on a own SD Card, what makes i.m.h.o a diagnosis of changes much easier.
So i ordered yesterday few SD Cards and have to wait until they arrives.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
355
Age
53
Location
Kozloduy, Bulgaria
what makes i.m.h.o a diagnosis of changes much easier.
No difference whether the card is empty or not. Just check if the log wrote before the flight. Starting ST and drone and get a connection is enough to check the storage.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
355
Age
53
Location
Kozloduy, Bulgaria
I can recommend you obtain an ST16. Better design with channel setting capabilities.
 

h-elsner

Premium Pilot
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
1,229
Location
Bavaria / Germany
The SD-card slot of the ST10 is not good for frequently change of SD card. Better to connect via USB cable and move (not copy) the "Flightlog" folder to PC. It will be created automatically at next flight. But it starts again with file number 00001. That's why I rename the saved flightlog folder on PC with date or date/time. q500log2kml has a function for this renaming action called "Archive". With this workflow I got a good archive of my flights.
Downloading flight logs and check is a normal post-flight action. Because I have old batteries I always have a look on the voltage chart.

SD card can be an old one. 4GB is more than enough. It should FAT32 format.

By the way, in Germany the normal number of sats should be 15-18. 8 sats on drone is very low. Could it be this number is from ST10?

br HE
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schteffl

New Threads

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
20,502
Messages
236,873
Members
25,775
Latest member
dinhuong23