Should I report 107 pilot to FAA?

[thomashall1993]

I just created a business in my local town and am certified by the FAA as a 107 Remote Pilot. I also just graduated from college at the age of 42 with an accounting degree and one of the biggest things that I absorbed from my expensive education is that your business should be ethical and legal in all regards. There is another drone business in town that is operating with a 107 license and has been working with a local non-profit to capture photos and videos of local events, but he is violating rules blatantly flying over people's heads, and not just 1 or 2, but large crowds which come out to see the events. If it was just a minor infraction, I probably would not be concerned but there is enough bad news about our industry on the news lately and I believe that we should be operating within the regs that have been established so that we can set an example for our industry. My dilemma is should I report his activities to the FAA or not? I am not interested in "getting him" in order to make him look bad and make me look better. I do not have time for that kind of petty activity, but I want to do what is right. Would love professional, respectful, and courteous advice as to which direction to move in.
Thomas

PS, I have included a picture that shows a sample size of the crowds he was flying over. When I obtained it, I sent my drone straight up, got my pictures and came straight down. I do not believe in violating our policies that have been established in order to "get the shot" or to make great products.

 

[Rayray]

I personally can not presume to advise you about this, you have to go with your own conscience, beliefs, and ideals.

 

[AH-1G]

Many of use see people breaking the law including 107's, just let it go it will eventually catch up with them.

 

[Wakeborder2]

I agree with AH. It will catch up with him..... I will say this....Do you ever break the speed limit laws.... and this...
We like to judge other people by their actions and ourselves by our Intentions.
and my favorite....let him with no sin cast the first stone.....Just my opinion(s)

 

[Murray Martz]

If you turn a blind eye, you are no better and are condoning this behavior. The rules are there for a reason. Stick to your principles as a professional. If I saw that I wouldn't think twice. Think about two planes in the air. One is within 100 feet of the other. The pilot in error would be reported and have to face the consequences of their actions. So with the drone, how would you feel if his fell from the sky onto a crowd if he did this again?

The choice is yours, but do not let some form of unsubstantiated guilt get in the way of doing what is right.

 

[gwhuntoon]

I get where you are coming from Murray, it's just that I learned that getting in other peoples crap usually doesn't end well. We have police and live in a police state, enforcing the law is their job, not mine, that's not to say that if someone was in immediate harm or being attacked that I would just stand by and do nothing, in that instance, I wouldn't. If the other pilot was blatantly unsafe then someone will more than likely speak up or his/her carelessness will catch up with them. We all walk the thin gray line every day and as Wakeborder2 said let him/her with no sin cast the first stone. I also never wanted to be...that guy...

 

[Rayray]

I stay with my original answer. It has to be your decision, not ours. The very act of asking is rather telling to me.

 

[JRremotePilot]

I would speak to the person directly. Not confronting but work into a dialog.

 

[FlushVision]

I can only speak with the perspective of U.K. law. I've looked at your picture and if that were in the U.K. it would be seen as a 'Congested' area. In the U.K. it is illegal for a recreational pilot to fly within 150m so therefore illegal to fly over the people. For a standard PfCO (commercial) holder it's 50m and it is also quite legal (but inadvisable) to fly over people if above 50m. In the U.K., then, I would see a standard permission holder in such a situation as pushing it a bit, but not necessarily breaking the law so long as he stayed at least 50m above the people. (that's how I understand it).
I'm not comfortable flying directly over people and I wouldn't be comfortable seeing someone else doing it either. However, since I understand that it is illegal in the USA to fly over people without a specific waiver I think, for you, the best course of action is to have a dialogue with the pilot and see where it takes you. Keep in mind that none of us are perfect. Maybe a 'quiet word' may sort it out. Maybe you may find out that he has a waiver?

 

[thomashall1993]

This is the conversation i DID have with him before he unfriended me on Facebook.


MAY 8TH, 9:50PM


Thomas:


You can’t fly a small UAS over anyone who is not directly participating in the operation,

Well I do not think that the hundreds of people in the street who didn't give permission for you to fly over their head was in line with the part 107 regulations, but that is up to you. I'm just giving you a heads up on how I'm reading the rule.

the policy reads

You can’t fly a small UAS over anyone who is not directly participating in the operation, not under a covered structure, or not inside a covered stationary vehicle.

not all of the people in the street were participating, gave permission, or were under a covered structure or in a stationary vehicle.



107 Pilot:


They were participating at the show. I was asked to come, and asked to fly. As remote pic I took every precaution. I took the course and obtained the license. There is a tremendous amount of gray area regarding this subject, Also people fly helicopters and planes over our heads all the time, no one cares about a drone especially if someone is a certified pilot and insured


Thomas:


ok, well I guess I just take the regulations literally. You're welcome to do interpret the faa regs how you want. We'll just have to disagree with that. Other than that, the footage looks good.


107 Pilot:


I've been around the stuff a long time and I've seen much worse. Have you taken the remote pilot course? Or any course for that matter? In the course you will learn of these gray areas. I highly recommend you take a course if you're planning on getting her license because the test is no slouch

And thank you your pictures look good to

People should always look out for each other, I also know for a fact FAA rules are changing regularly. This is a very new industry so get your foot in quick

My cousin has flown professionally for a private sector security company the last eight years. He has UAVs capable of reaching 45 miles

Thomas

I'm not gonna argue with you over how to interpret the reg. Thats on you, lol. As for me, I'm a by the book kind of guy, as it keeps me out of trouble. Had too much trouble in the last 10 years and not interested in getting into it again.

 

[Delmustator]

I'm not a part 107 pilot (and don't plan to operate my drone commercially). However, I am a certified commercial pilot. There should be NO debate. The FARs for ALL pilots (real or remote) were created for a reason and usually after something bad happened. Some years ago, I reported a fellow pilot and aircraft co-owner to the FAA. He had a heart attack a month or so earlier and lost his medical. He knew he was not cleared to fly and decided to do it anyway (and with passengers no less). I found out later that I wasn't the only one to report him, other local pilots reported him as well as the FBO. The FAA gave him a spanking and warned him that he would loose his pilot's license if he did it again before getting his medical back. Bottomline, he could have hurt himself and who knows how many others (both in the plane and on the ground) had he had another medical emergency while flying. The same holds true for spectators watching a game. There are plenty of examples of drones going down during sporting events; some with injuries caused by the drone. Sooner or later, if people continue to ignore the rules, something will happen that prompts some lawmaker (looking for a golden political egg) to create laws that will make this an expensive pay-2-play hobby. Spending $2k on a drone is nothing compared to what it could be. How would anyone like it if every drone had to carry liability insurance for $250k, carry a transponder, require annual inspections by a certified drone mechanic, and an annual flight check by an FAA examiner, etc. etc. etc. See where this is going? Report the guy and let the FAA deal with him. Follow the rules or don't fly....

 

[PatR]

Just exactly this situation occurred in another small town this past month. An individual participating in the parade just happened to be a town business owner, a licensed 107 operator, and long affiliated with a large UAV company. No, not me. There is a half azzed, uninsured 107 operator in town that had announced he was going to be flying up and down the middle of the street to film the classic cars and people in the parade. He was quite adamant that such would be legal and because of that his plans would not change. He learned to the contrary when he was approached by the town's chief of police, who happened to be the president of the local car club, and on a first name basis of the other 107 operator with a classic car in the parade.

The law about flying over people is very clear, and not the least bit ambiguous. You cannot fly over any part of a person not directly involved with the flight operation. Spectators are not involved unless they have been briefed to make them aware, AND have signed a document making that awareness clear for all to understand. They are not part of the flight crew and are not participating in the flight operation as the flight operation is but incidental to the function they are involved in.

As for what you should do, I guess that depends on what kind of a person you are. Would you turn your back and walk away if you saw someone with their life at risk or take action to protect them from the risk?

 

[Murray Martz]

I tend to have a black and white opinion when it come to this topic. I do so because it shows the governing body in our respective countries that we are also trying to police ourselves. By doing so it may lead to lower penalties for breaches that are of lower risk, and less restrictions in the future. Flying over people is not a low risk, but their are other instances where it is. I suppose as others have said it may be wise to speak with the pilot first to see what documentation the pilot has first. Then if they are defiant, proceed further.
In Canada I have found that when I have approached users, they tell me to go F off and it's none of my business. This is why I have the B & W view in Canada.

 

[Jeff Kerry]

I agree that this is go with your own conscience. But do have a question? You say he is working with a non-profit group. Is he getting paid or donating his time. The other question is, with some of the non-profits I have worked with is that they post that their will be videos and photos taken to help with there cause. But I still don't know what the law is in the UK and if he needed a waiver or not.

 

[thomashall1993]

I agree that this is go with your own conscience. But do have a question? You say he is working with a non-profit group. Is he getting paid or donating his time. The other question is, with some of the non-profits I have worked with is that they post that their will be videos and photos taken to help with there cause. But I still don't know what the law is in the UK and if he needed a waiver or not.

He is getting compensated for his time. It is not in the form of money, but he is getting compensated and that is the definition of commercial operations. The non-profit is described like this. The mission of xxxxxxx xxxxxx, Inc. is to encourage the growth of business, governmental services and cultural entertainment in the heart of Topeka and xxxxxxx County, and to be the leading advocate on issues that affect the economic well-being of our members. I talked to them about how he was violating FAA policy and the individual who retained his services did not seem to care. It is a non-profit in the US, so he is subject to all FAA policies, even if he does not like it.

 

[Jeff Kerry]

Thanks for the reply. It was just my thoughts. I have done some stuff for a couple of non-profits here. No money just to help and they had a sign about the drone taking video and photos of the event. But does not seem the non-profit is concerned about the law. Their issues on well being on members doesn't say much for them, it seems what they want is more important then anything else.

 

[PatR]

I shoot for local newspaper from time to time. I receive no revenue for the effort, but do receive name mention, while the newspaper does generate circulation revenue from the photos. My consideration is in the form of free advertising. It's all commercial "for hire". The "non profit" uses generated imagery for the purpose of soliciting contributions or increasing public visibility. That's commercial "for hire".

 

[Jeff Kerry]

Personally I would let it go. He will get caught without any ones help. Let me put it this way. I do a lot of shots for my church and produce videos and DVD's for them, but here the FAA told me even since we are a non-profit, it would be professional and you need the Part 107 even though I do not get any money and no credits as to who did the videos.

 

[Delmustator]

Hey Jeff, you make a good point. Normally, the FAA always takes the hard-line on the rules. However, I thought about this and discussed it with a fellow pilot (Billy), who is also an FAA examiner, about how FAR loopholes could apply.

Note: I am NOT am telling anyone to do this. It's simply a hypothetical scenario. Anyone do this and you'll probably get an FAA flogging as there is no precedent (that I know of) for it in drone operations. Billy agreed with this point. He's seen the FAA go after people for way less.

FACT
As a non-commercial pilot, you CANNOT charge for your time as PIC of any aircraft. However, you CAN charge users of the aircraft for expenses related to aircraft operations (e.g. aircraft rental, fuel, landing fees, etc.). Basically, I fly you wherever you want pro-bono, you pay for the plane rental and any related expenses. This practice has been the norm for decades. I did this a LOT when I was building flight hours (I flew fire watch 3 days a week and did aerial ground mapping with video equipment looking out a hole in the bottom of the plane, e.g. spycraft stuff). Basically I was game for anything that gave me hours and didn't cost me anything out of pocket. Some pilots tow message banners at the beach 7 days a week during the entire summer to gain PIC flight hours in their log books. Works out great if you have no real job, live with your parents, or work the midnight shift. Man I got 5000 flight hours as PIC in my logbook! Yeah, where? At the beach...

SCENARIO
How could this apply to flying a drone for aerial videos? It could be argued that you could charge a drone use fee to cover expenses for normal wear on your drones motors, batteries, chargers, video download fee, etc. Basically anything that is required in support of the drone flight operations. What this monetary use fee would be is anyone's guess. How would the time-frame be determined as to when the drone motors should be replaced? How many flights should require the replacement of the drone batteries? Whatever it is would have to be an established industry rate and flights//hours documented in a logbook that stays with the drone. The raw video would go to the renter where it would be on them to do whatever they want with it.

THE CONUNDRUM
So does this mean one could slap a Hobbs meter on their drone (to track operating hours) and start making money? Probably
Would the FAA try to spank the drone pilot if they charged a $300/hour drone use fee as a non-part 107 pilot? Probably
Is it worth the hassle of using this loophole in the FARs to make money with a video drone? TBD by someone at some point..

 

[Jeff Kerry]

Delmustator,

Understand your point. For me and what I do I do it for fun and helping the church. No money exchanged for anything. I have done volunteer work for over 20 years. With the Red Cross and 25yrs as a Asst. Fire Chief on a volunteer fire department. Just they way I grew up helping people. Was always part of my family.

Just don't want to tell someone to report or not to report. Will keep my personal thoughts about the report thing to myself, not wanting to get someone in an tissy.