Sudden altitude drop and hard landing.

[Ari]

Loss of the aircraft was the risk that kept me from getting one for a long time. As a part of my research into drones I also contacted my insurance company and was told I was already covered (€150 deductible) including also liability.

So finally I gave in to the little boy inside me and bought the Q500.

 

[JBourne210]

One thing that I've found I have to be very careful about is VRS (Vortex Ring State). We called it Settling with Power back in the day. I purposefully put my G into VRS to see how easy it was to get into, and I can tell y'all, it's pretty easy. And it gets into it fast. It's also easy to get out of too. Just give it airspeed. ANY airspeed. Forward, rearward, sideways, whatever. She'll pop right out of VRS, and you regain control. If you don't, the more power you apply, the faster she'll fall. She'll hit the ground like a homesick gopher. Anyway, I would recommend that, if you are going to descend with zero airspeed, that you do it very slowly. If it's windy, you don't have to worry about it too much.

For the record, I'm not trying to tell anyone that all of the videos here are VRS, but in my humble opinion, there may be a few. Of course, you were all there, and I wasn't!

Cheers, and happy flying!

 

[WEDWay]

@JBourne210 ... I saw a video of a military helicopter that crashed at an airshow. All the experts described a situation where a helicopter falls from the sky because it is not moving. They say that helicopters actual move around a little when hovering, otherwise there is no lift as I understand it. Is that what you are describing? And you suggest to "give it some gas" and try to move side to side or forward or backwards to create lift? If this occurs again, I will try that.

I have been a little cautious where I fly so far. On top of living in an area with airports or heliports everywhere, since the Typhoon fell out of the sky, I have been far more reluctant to fly to far from me or over areas I cannot get to easily to retrieve a falling drone.

When we drove away from the crash site, we saw a large microwave antenna array and wondered if it had cause interference. It was a few miles away and we had no idea it was there.

 

[JBourne210]

@WEDWay - Hmmm, not exactly. Helicopters can make lift even if they are perfectly still. Where you get into trouble is when you are descending vertically, with little to no airspeed. Essentially, and without getting too technical, the blades get caught up in really 'dirty' air, and can't produce any lift. This is referred to as Settling with Power, or, more correctly, Vortex Ring State.

When we say to 'fly out of VRS', what you are trying to do is disrupt the wing tip vortex patterns that are engulfing the entire lifting surface of the blade by 'flying' into clean air. This 'clean air' can be in front of, behind, or to the side of the quad. Imagine a big vertical tunnel, with a bunch of air in the tunnel flowing toward the earth. And you're quad is stuck in it. And the more power you apply, the faster the air in the tunnel moves. Eventually your quad will run out of power to stay up, and eventually you run out of altitude, thus smacking the ground and creating an LSH (large smoking hole) So the trick is to fly out of this virtual tunnel. In ANY direction. That'll get you into the clean air, and your quad becomes responsive again.

I apologize if this doesn't make any sense, but I'm at work and didn't have a lot of time for a more detailed write up.

Cheers and Happy Flying!

 

[Ari]

This is a must see video - at least for newbies like me.

 

[JBourne210]

@Ari - Agreed!

 

[John Mirro]

I live at 8,700 feet in Colorado. I told Yuneec this when I bought my Q500. They told me I could fly it above 8,000 feet if I installed the software that defeats the no-fly above 8,000 feet feature and they also suggested that I but a set of more aggressive props. They never told me the Q500 would be unstable or prone to dropping out of the sky once I did these things. If so I would not have bought it. My fatal crash occurred with the proper software installed and the more aggressive props mounted. Yuneec has had my Q500 since July 25th and still no word on repairs.

 

[Bob Brazell]

This is a must see video - at least for newbies like me.

This was very helpful. I flew RC helicopters for 4 years before I got the quad and never knew any of this practical info. Thanks for posting this Ari.

 

[Bob Brazell]

Thanks to everybody for your help. Finally I have installed the SD card in the ST-10 and downloaded the drivers. Now I'm ready to start recording flight data. Turns out the 16 GB card that came with the unit worked OK for recording video and photos but didn't work when I put it in the ST-10. The tutorial I saw suggested using the card for the ST-10 so I did. When I used a new card everything suddenly worked. Wish I had known about VRS and had a card in the ST-10 before my quad got all broke.

 

[Bob Brazell]

Can Yuneec rebuild my Q500 (replace the body)? How much is the cost?

 

[Steve Carr]

I live at 8,700 feet in Colorado. I told Yuneec this when I bought my Q500. They told me I could fly it above 8,000 feet if I installed the software that defeats the no-fly above 8,000 feet feature and they also suggested that I but a set of more aggressive props. They never told me the Q500 would be unstable or prone to dropping out of the sky once I did these things. If so I would not have bought it. My fatal crash occurred with the proper software installed and the more aggressive props mounted. Yuneec has had my Q500 since July 25th and still no word on repairs.

John, I'm sorry I missed your post and sorry about your unfortunate incident. I just want to pass on some additional information for you.
VRS is not at all uncommon in the quadcopter world. It can happen with any quad but it's more likely when there is no wind. High altitude and aggressive props means the pilot needs to be vigilant for signs of VRS. Experienced pilots have learned to keep moving as they descend so the aircraft is always flying in non-turbulent air. I have had VRS in a light wind when I was landing downwind. Forgot that the aircraft was seeing the same thing as no wind. If you see it starting to come down too fast simply use the right stick max in any direction to get it out of the vortex.
Putting on the more aggressive props for flying at altitude is done by many pilots because of the need for more lift. They work well but, again, you have to be vigilant of the descent.
Hope you get your bird back soon.

 

[DrP]

JBourne210, you're a man-god. I've been exchanging e-mails with Yuneec Customer Support (good guys, truly) trying to troubleshoot flight software. After four nauseating plummets, my Q500+ is still airworthy, but I was less apt to fly it. You nailed it with your description of VRS. I'm flying at 7400' out here in Colorado, so I start out with very high rotor speed. All crashes were in clear, calm, beautiful flying conditions...and a vertical descent. My "Wall of Shame" is up to 21 shattered propellers, 13 from VRS. (The rest are from meeting trees.) Get the word out, fellas: PUSH THE RIGHT STICK FORWARD.

"Fly it. Risk it. Fix it. Fly it!"

 

[JBourne210]

JBourne210, you're a man-god. I've been exchanging e-mails with Yuneec Customer Support (good guys, truly) trying to troubleshoot flight software. After four nauseating plummets, my Q500+ is still airworthy, but I was less apt to fly it. You nailed it with your description of VRS. I'm flying at 7400' out here in Colorado, so I start out with very high rotor speed. All crashes were in clear, calm, beautiful flying conditions...and a vertical descent. My "Wall of Shame" is up to 21 shattered propellers, 13 from VRS. (The rest are from meeting trees.) Get the word out, fellas: PUSH THE RIGHT STICK FORWARD.

"Fly it. Risk it. Fix it. Fly it!"

Haha! I appreciate the kudos, and your welcome! Glad to hear you're getting airborne again! The thing is, for most of of that migrated from flying helos (whether full scale or model), we know that VRS can absolutely ruin your day if you aren't prepared for it. And I agree with you, it needs to be talked about more, especially to those new to the world of quads. I love my G (unfortunately she's at Yuneec for defective motor mounts), but she's a bit prone to VRS. As long as I know that, I can prevent her from going into it. Or if I screw up, I can get her out of it!

Cheers, and happy flying!

 

[DrP]

More important question: Are hexcopters more or less prone to VRS than quads?
(Jonesing for the Typhoon H. It's September, and I've got less than 4 months to get my story straight for Christmas. Last year's present from my wife was "Go ahead and get your *&^%$ drone.")

"Fly it. Risk it. Fix it. Fly it!"

 

[JBourne210]

That's a great question. I guess there's a slight possibility that the rotors close proximity to each other could prevent complete VRS. If someone would like to send me a hex, I'd be more than happy to perform some testing.

 

[DWalkErie]

I too have experienced the sudden uncontrolled drops since the Fall of last year. The "Vortex" explanation I've read about doesn't explain it because it didn't ever happen the first year I owned it but now I can pretty much count on it happening every time. Some are hard bounces and back up again but too many break off parts and pieces when it hits the ground. I'm tired of replacing blades and skids and unfortunately at this point, the camera is trashed from all the ground contact. My mini SD in the ST-10+ hasn't recorded any data since 7-11-15 so I don't have any telemetry since it has started dropping regularly. I should send it to Yuneec and have them fly it around themselves and see if they can figure it out.

 

[EDWARD SALOMON]

[Quote = "DWalkErie, Mensaje: 52858, miembro de: 113"] Yo también experimentado que las gotas repentinos incontrolados from La Caída del Año Pasado. La Explicación "Vortex" Sobre he leido ninguna Explica Que DEBIDO una cola sin SUCEDE Nunca El Primer Año Lo Que Tenia, Pero Ahora puedo mas o menos Contar con Ello SUCEDE Cada Vez. Algunos adj hijo Rebotes duro y volver de nuevo Pero Muchos se desprenden Partes y Piezas al chocar contra el suelo. Estoy cansado de reemplazar las cuchillas y patines Y Por Desgracia En Este punto, la Cámara this colocado en la papelera de Todo el contacto con el suelo. Mi Mini SD en el ST-10 + no se ha Registrado ningún dato desde 11/07/15 por Lo que no Tienen Ninguna telemetría, ya ha comenzado Que Cayendo regularmente. Deberia enviarlo un Yuneec y Hacer Que Vuelan Alrededor de Ellos and view si pueden entenderlo. [/ Quote]
hola amigos, La Condición de anillo de vórtice estado Parece Ser Frecuente en el Q500 Yuneec, El Límite de altura Que Trae de 8000 pies this relacionado con ESTO, Al Parecer el peso del avión no tripulado SE Encuentra en El Límite superior, y entra con Facilidad en vrs CUANDO heno poca densidad de aire, Instale los Apoyos aeronauta 13x5 Que Recomienda Yuneec para volar por Encima de 8000 pies y el resultado m FUE desastroso, sin Logre vuelo Seguro, mi avión no tripulado entro en vrs con mayor facility facilidad. Pueden ProBAR un pecado volar la Cámara, al Reducir el peso Mejora sustancialmente el La Seguridad.