Ultrax Battery Rapid Voltage Drop

[PatR]

There ya go. A lipo has a useful life of roughly 2 years. From that point on they degrade. Battery inventories should be such that all new batteries are sold within the first year from date of manufacture with new production occurring as inventories draw down. OTOH, a manufacturer can obtain a lot lower unit pricing if they contract for one very large order instead of a number of smaller orders. As the H battery is cased and employs 2 circuit boards the need for those items adds additional levels of unit pricing to the equation.

As the H was first scheduled to be released in March of 2016 all the batteries needed to fulfill initial sales would have been produced prior to that date, with successive production runs occurring to back fill inventory in quantities determined by aircraft sales rates and data developed from the sale of battery spares. I think we all know H sales have fallen off considerably from the rate experienced during the first 8 months after the release that finally occurred in May 2016

I have yet to see a new Yuneec H battery date later than 2016, so the so called “new” Yuneec batteries are not new at all, and on their last legs when the buyer receives one. The cell IR values tell the story. Anything more than 4mOhm is already heading downhill. A new cell should have an IR value of 1 to 2mOhm. IR increases through the breakdown of lithium chemistries and improper use and storage. The rate of lithium chemistry breakdown is predictable, which is how a 2 year life cycle was derived, when they are used correctly. Misuse accelerates breakdown.

 

[terrence davidson]

I wonder about the orange h520 battery. Did the production stopped for those yet and were are just drawing down their stock pile.

 

[Mrgs1]

There ya go. A lipo has a useful life of roughly 2 years. From that point on they degrade. Battery inventories should be such that all new batteries are sold within the first year from date of manufacture with new production occurring as inventories draw down. OTOH, a manufacturer can obtain a lot lower unit pricing if they contract for one very large order instead of a number of smaller orders. As the H battery is cased and employs 2 circuit boards the need for those items adds additional levels of unit pricing to the equation.

As the H was first scheduled to be released in March of 2016 all the batteries needed to fulfill initial sales would have been produced prior to that date, with successive production runs occurring to back fill inventory in quantities determined by aircraft sales rates and data developed from the sale of battery spares. I think we all know H sales have fallen off considerably from the rate experienced during the first 8 months after the release that finally occurred in May 2016

I have yet to see a new Yuneec H battery date later than 2016, so the so called “new” Yuneec batteries are not new at all, and on their last legs when the buyer receives one. The cell IR values tell the story. Anything more than 4mOhm is already heading downhill. A new cell should have an IR value of 1 to 2mOhm. IR increases through the breakdown of lithium chemistries and improper use and storage. The rate of lithium chemistry breakdown is predictable, which is how a 2 year life cycle was derived, when they are used correctly. Misuse accelerates breakdown.

So your saying third party too or just Original?

 

[Mrgs1]

Something to think about. The “batteries out of stock” thing is how it went after the 920 was quietly discontinued. Pretty hard to get people to buy new, more expensive aircraft to replace an older model that doesn’t wear out while batteries are still available.

Another thing to consider is that with every post where a Yuneec battery manufacture date has been provided, none of them have noted a year of manufacture later than 2016. From that it becomes evident Yuneec has not been selling “new” batteries, just old inventory that is reaching end of useful life. Those flying the H might want to start looking at alternative batteries to power their H’s. Forget looking for “cased” batteries.

When was the 920 discontinued? Still showing available in UK? If so that's poor.

 

[PatR]

So your saying third party too or just Original?

Just Yuneec branded. Third parties make no more than they can effectively sell.

 

[PatR]

When was the 920 discontinued? Still showing available in UK? If so that's poor.

Discontinued as reference to production. Because you stop making something does not mean you no longer have or sell that something. No reason to throw away unsold product just because it’s no longer being made.

The drone business is heavily set up around constantly releasing new models that obsolete the previous models. A lot of consumer psychology is used to keep people in a continuous buying cycle. The old model might well be perfectly functional and serve all the needed purposes but companies don’t make any money when people buy only one drone. They need people to buy over and over. It’s actually a pretty limited volume market

 

[Mrgs1]

Yes I'm aware. of all that. Yuneec has a different approach than some manufacturers, here in Europe there's is more support to 2 or 3 year old product, electronic or car.
Guarantees: repairs, replacements, refunds

In theory if that battery fails within two years you can get a replacement or refund.

 

[terrence davidson]

well looks like we are down to Cameron sino or gifi for yuneec h batteries. the others look like they are offering dji compatible batteries instead.

 

[PatR]

Been sayin’ this for awhile, get off the factory battery shell schtick. Drill a hole in the bottom of the body to route wires out of. Use the plug from an ild battery to use as sn adaptor that’s left connected inside the H. Buy whatever mA capacity battery that will fit in the hole, hang the battery wires out the back. Use Velcro to secure it. Go fly and not worry about batteries again forever. Don’t limit yourself because of cosmetics.

 

[Mrgs1]

People 3D print the shell and fit a battery, plenty of ideas on YouTube, battery mods on my old upair one are the same just plug in batteries now.

 

[terrence davidson]

PatR would this battery adapter fit the bill. Yuneec Typhoon H Battery Conversion Adapter Batteries Upgrade Kit | eBay

[MOD EDIT] if link above fails

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuneec-Typhoon-H-Battery-Conversion-Adapter-Batteries-Upgrade-Kit/264087531813

 

[Mrgs1]

I wouldn't start panicking yet, there are still a lot of batteries, definitely third party which were produced later than 2016, if stored/used correctly they could last from 2/4 years but you'll have to keep checking IR, anyway as time goes on people will start to produce more shells, 3D printed etc, as the dedicated ones keep them going, like a classic car, but parts will get less and less, flying is dangerous, so I expect some will crash and be written off before you need a solution, and you'll be buying the next model, or the one after that.

 

[Satdiver]

Those batteries appear to indicate they had been deep discharged at some time and damaged the cells. Are you certain they were new or is there any evidence present to indicate they’ve been used prior to your purchase? The packaging would be the first thing I looked at. Battery in a fitted box, battery inside a bubble wrap envelope or sheet, instruction sheet for proper handling. GensAce, Tattu, and UltraX batteries are always packaged that way. They are also usually shipped at storage voltage.

The cell IR values will tell you what you need to know about condition. Any cell over 8m/ohms is concerning.

So I finally received my Tenergy Battery test tool today and was able to IR test both the new Ultra X batteries that I had issues with (that lead to this thread) as well as my stock Yuneec batteries. Here are the results:

Ultra X battery 1: cell 1- 19 ohms, cell 2- 5 ohms, cell 3- 10 ohms and cell 4- 11 ohms

Ultra X battery 2: cell 1- 18 ohms, cell 2- 9 ohms, cell 3- 5 ohms and cell 4- 14 ohms


Yuneec battery 1: cell 1- 11 ohms, cell 2- 2 ohms, cell 3- 3 ohms and cell 4- 5 ohms

Yuneec battery 2: cell 1- 10 ohms, cell 2- 2 ohms, cell 3- 2 ohms and cell 4- 6 ohms


Looking at cell #1 of both Yuneec batteries, I guess I need to keep a close eye on them now. I've only been flying them for 4 months, land by 14.5 volts and keep them at storage level when not using since day one.

Todd

 

[DoomMeister]

So I finally received my Tenergy Battery test tool today and was able to IR test both the new Ultra X batteries that I had issues with (that lead to this thread) as well as my stock Yuneec batteries. Here are the results:

Ultra X battery 1: cell 1- 19 ohms, cell 2- 5 ohms, cell 3- 10 ohms and cell 4- 11 ohms

Ultra X battery 2: cell 1- 18 ohms, cell 2- 9 ohms, cell 3- 5 ohms and cell 4- 14 ohms


Yuneec battery 1: cell 1- 11 ohms, cell 2- 2 ohms, cell 3- 3 ohms and cell 4- 5 ohms

Yuneec battery 2: cell 1- 10 ohms, cell 2- 2 ohms, cell 3- 2 ohms and cell 4- 6 ohms


Looking at cell #1 of both Yuneec batteries, I guess I need to keep a close eye on them now. I've only been flying them for 4 months, land by 14.5 volts and keep them at storage level when not using since day one.

Todd

What is the date of manufacture on the UltraX batteries? The IR values are high for supposedly new stock.

 

[Mrgs1]

I wonder if a lot of these batteries whatever brand were manufactured sometime ago?

 

[DoomMeister]

I wonder if a lot of these batteries whatever brand were manufactured sometime ago?

Is there a serial number or date code on the UltraX?

The OEM batteries it is the first eight digits.

 

[Mrgs1]

Is there a serial number or date code on the UltraX?

The OEM batteries it is the first eight digits.

Not seen anything past 2016. I wonder if they pr

Is there a serial number or date code on the UltraX?

The OEM batteries it is the first eight digits.

They could of all been made by the same company in batches during 2016.

 

[Phaedrus]

I wonder if a lot of these batteries whatever brand were manufactured sometime ago?

More likely that off brand cells are not very well made. In the world of lipos people have learned that some brands use good cells, and some don't. Price is often, but not always, an indication of that. Ultrax appear to be made by Gens Ace/Tattu. I have not had very good results using that brand in other applications in the past. They have a reputation of generally low cost not particularly decently performing cells.

 

[PatR]

The best batteries I’ve ever used were made by MaxAmps, but the cost for the performance is quite high. Where such performance is necessary that cost is justified.

If we were to consider how most multirotor operators treat their batteries we might find some justification in using lower cost, lower performance batteries as many would unwittingly damage them in the first few cycles and never be able to make full use of a battery regardless of the quality.

 

[Phaedrus]

For most everything I fly that does not have dedicated packs I have been using Dinogy packs. I have been very pleased with their price and performance. Run by a long time modeler. He has built a real following in the quad racing world as well.

Home of Dinogylipos