2 Out Of 3 Batteries Drain FAAAAAAST!

[Eagle's Eye Video]

The Yuneec batts are a disappointment. I had three go down with bad cells after only 5 months & 10 charging cycles each. They're nothing special on the inside. Looks like the same 5kmAh 4S HK sells for $40. See pic.

Meanwhile my four DJI P4 batts are two years old & 30 cycles each and are good as new. I don't mind spending $160/pc. for that performance. Caveats: I keep my batts fully charged all the time because I fly for work usually once a week. I'm also on call for emergency response and the drone needs to be ready to go. My main concern is that the H520 is not the "commercial grade" product it is advertised to be.

IMHO, if you are leaving your batteries fully charged for a week at a time, you are creating the conditions for poor performance with your maintenance schedule. The batteries, no matter what brand, are not at fault.

 

[rames1651]

I agree that fully charged is not the best battery storage practice. However, the DJI batts are treated the same way without any performance loss.

 

[arruntus]

I agree that fully charged is not the best battery storage practice. However, the DJI batts are treated the same way without any performance loss.

And that has a reason, DJI batteries aren't called intelligent for no reason. They are able to manage the charge.

These batteries, those of H520, are conventional, if you don't do a preventive work the only thing you get is what has happened to you, that they swell and therefore throw them to the garbage (to a recycling point).

Read a few messages back on the basic care of a LIPO battery, you have plenty of links if you search on the Internet. In this case companion, the blame can only be attributed to the misuse you have made of them. It's a pity that we always have to learn the hard way

 

[rames1651]

And that has a reason, DJI batteries aren't called intelligent for no reason. They are able to manage the charge.

These batteries, those of H520, are conventional, if you don't do a preventive work the only thing you get is what has happened to you, that they swell and therefore throw them to the garbage (to a recycling point).

Read a few messages back on the basic care of a LIPO battery, you have plenty of links if you search on the Internet. In this case companion, the blame can only be attributed to the misuse you have made of them. It's a pity that we always have to learn the hard way

You would think for a $200 'commercial' battery you'd be getting smart tech and not $40 Turnigy. Lesson learned the hard way. May I be a beacon for others.....

 

[arruntus]

You would think for a $200 'commercial' battery you'd be getting smart tech and not $40 Turnigy. Lesson learned the hard way. May I be a beacon for others.....

Unfortunately you're right, just the outer box is what drives up the price so much? having a proprietary connector? You're not the first to get the same thing, and you won't be the last.

In the "world" of drones, everything is evolving at a very high speed, and the parts and systems are getting better and better. But there is one exception that has been using practically the same technology for more than 30 years, the batteries, which have improved very little. Two years ago we started to go crazy with graphite batteries, but there is still nothing commercially firm that is worth it.

Searching a little I found a video of just a year ago about the announcement of a company as important as Samsung talking about graphite batteries. For now just that, intentions (as far as I know).

Latest news of how they're still investigating

Graphene Ball Battery - Future of Smartphone Batteries

That the carbon fiber begins to tremble in front of the graphite

World’s First Graphene-Skinned UAS Unveiled

For now all the evidence I have seen of the graphite-based batteries that are sold, for example those of HobbyKing, only show that they are somewhat heavier than those of LIPO, apart from taking a little less to charge, have the handicap of being more expensive. A disaster

Graphene, solid batteries based on glass electrolytes ... and 30 other projects that have not yet given any tangible results... We will have to continue waiting

P.D.: I just found something else interesting that I know has gone up in smoke.

A New Lithium-Metal Battery Takes Flight in Drones

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Graphene, solid batteries based on glass electrolytes ... and 30 other projects that have not yet given any tangible results... We will have to continue waiting

P.D.: I just found something else interesting that I know has gone up in smoke.

A New Lithium-Metal Battery Takes Flight in Drones

I remember seeing that article early in the year... so this is already DOA?

 

[arruntus]

I don't know, there are so many projects, all very promising, but none of them reach the final results. Time will tell. And I'm afraid that it will happen as it happens with the computer or audiovisual industry, not always the best product is imposed. The one that is backed by the strongest is imposed, no matter if it is a worse product than another one developed by a small fish.............

 

[BigAl07]

The Yuneec batts are a disappointment. I had three go down with bad cells after only 5 months & 10 charging cycles each. They're nothing special on the inside. Looks like the same 5kmAh 4S HK sells for $40. See pic.

Meanwhile my four DJI P4 batts are two years old & 30 cycles each and are good as new. I don't mind spending $160/pc. for that performance. Caveats: I keep my batts fully charged all the time because I fly for work usually once a week. I'm also on call for emergency response and the drone needs to be ready to go. My main concern is that the H520 is not the "commercial grade" product it is advertised to be.

@rames1651 You are the demise of your batteries. Maintaining them 24/7 at Full Charge is going to degrade them in just a few months. Create a Battery Maintenance Program where you only have a single battery (or pair if it's a dual battery system and rotate it in your inventory) is at full capacity 24/7.

I fly for work and I am on call 24/7 on the local and state (NC) Emergency Services levels. We always have a flight pack ready 24/7 and are able to charge en-route and on scene to be able to fly 24/7. We have DJI aircraft, custom aircraft, and the H520 and all are mission ready 24/7 and have been for 3 years now (H520 is new to our fleet). Occasionally we will have a battery that just needs replacing from drop in performance or cell deviations but that's part of sUAS operations. Out of the 40+ batteries I maintain I have only replaced 2 in the last 6 months and they were both DJI (Mavic Pro to be exact).

The flight pack(s) that are at 100% are only maintained that way for 5 days before the next in the series is taken to 100% and the previous one down to storage level. We maintain charge logs and do a full battery inspection 1x month to see if there are any "Trends" that need to be further looked into.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Like²...

 

[rames1651]

@rames1651 You are the demise of your batteries. Maintaining them 24/7 at Full Charge is going to degrade them in just a few months. Create a Battery Maintenance Program where you only have a single battery (or pair if it's a dual battery system and rotate it in your inventory) is at full capacity 24/7.

I fly for work and I am on call 24/7 on the local and state (NC) Emergency Services levels. We always have a flight pack ready 24/7 and are able to charge en-route and on scene to be able to fly 24/7. We have DJI aircraft, custom aircraft, and the H520 and all are mission ready 24/7 and have been for 3 years now (H520 is new to our fleet). Occasionally we will have a battery that just needs replacing from drop in performance or cell deviations but that's part of sUAS operations. Out of the 40+ batteries I maintain I have only replaced 2 in the last 6 months and they were both DJI (Mavic Pro to be exact).

The flight pack(s) that are at 100% are only maintained that way for 5 days before the next in the series is taken to 100% and the previous one down to storage level. We maintain charge logs and do a full battery inspection 1x month to see if there are any "Trends" that need to be further looked into.

I do appreciate the feedback. As we ramp up the budget on our drone program, a more rigorous battery maintenance schedule like yours will be critical. I'm just saying I don't have this issue with my Phantom 4 batteries. Maybe I lucked out an got four super batteries that can handle being fully charged for a week.

 

[BigAl07]

I do appreciate the feedback. As we ramp up the budget on our drone program, a more rigorous battery maintenance schedule like yours will be critical. I'm just saying I don't have this issue with my Phantom 4 batteries. Maybe I lucked out an got four super batteries that can handle being fully charged for a week.

In order to be self sustaining for 24hrs (a requirement for Emergency Services here) we do have multiple chargers and the ability to charge while traveling and on-scene. I will admit it's time consuming to monitor, track, and review all of the inventory of batteries and aircraft but it's part of the job. We expect/demand our equipment to perform at peak efficiency when called upon. This means spending the extra time and effort to make sure our batteries are in top condition. Keeping them at 100% significantly degrades them so rotating the 100% unit makes a HUGE difference long term.

Good luck and SAFE FLIGHTS!!

 

[rames1651]

In order to be self sustaining for 24hrs (a requirement for Emergency Services here) we do have multiple chargers and the ability to charge while traveling and on-scene. I will admit it's time consuming to monitor, track, and review all of the inventory of batteries and aircraft but it's part of the job. We expect/demand our equipment to perform at peak efficiency when called upon. This means spending the extra time and effort to make sure our batteries are in top condition. Keeping them at 100% significantly degrades them so rotating the 100% unit makes a HUGE difference long term.

Good luck and SAFE FLIGHTS!!

At the risk of going off thread topic: Are you using software for the battery logs?

 

[BigAl07]

At the risk of going off thread topic: Are you using software for the battery logs?

No sir other than speadsheets to keep everything electronic. It's not even a nice spreadsheet LOL. Date, battery name, charges, last full inspection, cell deviation, last DEEP Cycle, and any special notes. I think that's all it has on the main sheet. At the charge area I have a list of all batteries and note which one was left at FULL % so that we can make sure to keep our inventory rotated.

 

[rames1651]

No sir other than speadsheets to keep everything electronic. It's not even a nice spreadsheet LOL. Date, battery name, charges, last full inspection, cell deviation, last DEEP Cycle, and any special notes. I think that's all it has on the main sheet. At the charge area I have a list of all batteries and note which one was left at FULL % so that we can make sure to keep our inventory rotated.

Very good. Thanks for the information and have a good holiday.

 

[arruntus]

Another very important point. The storage temperature. Normally we have them at home or in the office at room temperature and as long as it does not exceed 22 degrees centigrade it can be said that it is acceptable. But only that, acceptable. Seeing the trot that @BigAl07 's batteries have, storing them at a lower temperature is very advisable.

Not long ago, this year, I was able to see a detailed table of the degradation of the batteries by use and others of the degradation they suffer and the loss of performance they have by the storage temperature. Some data provided by the manufacturers of batteries and others obtained from university tests. The recommended storage temperature was 4 degrees Celsius, batteries were 20 years old (when the cells were purchased individually and joined together to form packs) and still retained 80% capacity.

Without use, at excessive storage temperatures it can lose up to 10% of its capacity annually (if I remember the numbers well), at 4 degrees Celsius only 2% was lost. Do not pay much attention to the numbers because my memory is no longer what it was, but the amount was very large.

I joked with the fact of having to take the food out of the fridge to put the batteries and how my wife would get........

@BigAl07 because of the work you do, it is necessary to be always prepared, have you thought of a cold system to keep them and thus extend their life? Submitting them to such an intense cycle of charge and discharge, not counting the use that may arise, in your case, How long does a battery life last?

 

[BigAl07]

Another very important point. The storage temperature. Normally we have them at home or in the office at room temperature and as long as it does not exceed 22 degrees centigrade it can be said that it is acceptable. But only that, acceptable. Seeing the trot that @BigAl07 's batteries have, storing them at a lower temperature is very advisable.

Not long ago, this year, I was able to see a detailed table of the degradation of the batteries by use and others of the degradation they suffer and the loss of performance they have by the storage temperature. Some data provided by the manufacturers of batteries and others obtained from university tests. The recommended storage temperature was 4 degrees Celsius, batteries were 20 years old (when the cells were purchased individually and joined together to form packs) and still retained 80% capacity.

Without use, at excessive storage temperatures it can lose up to 10% of its capacity annually (if I remember the numbers well), at 4 degrees Celsius only 2% was lost. Do not pay much attention to the numbers because my memory is no longer what it was, but the amount was very large.

I joked with the fact of having to take the food out of the fridge to put the batteries and how my wife would get........

My wife is a saint and puts up with my "unusal" aircraft requirements and has for a couple of decades now. I don't think finding them in the fridge surprised her at all LOL! Now when we had company over and they get something out of the fridge and discovered a drawer full of batteries they always gave me a funny look LOL.

We used to keep all of our battery packs in the "veggy criper drawer" in the bottom of our fridge. That was for long-term storage (usually over the colder months before I started with Emergency Services) with great success. When I started getting larger and more packs this option became less viable in every way.

My charging area now is in my basement/shop which maintains a temp year round of roughly 58-62 deg F(59.7F right this moment). The only time that changes is when we are harvesting FALL honey and we bump the temps up to help the honey flow easier.

One thing that we noticed when flying HELI packs was the amount of "punch" we lost from storing packs charged. It seemed like they lost their "C" rating from being stored charged and often times they were migrated from HELI use down to "plank" use because of lack of PUNCH!! The airplanes can tolerate less punch and still fly reasonbly well albeit less spectacular. MultiRotors and Heli, because all of their lift is from the rotors, don't tolerate sluggish packs nearly as well.

@BigAl07 because of the work you do, it is necessary to be always prepared, have you thought of a cold system to keep them and thus extend their life? Submitting them to such an intense cycle of charge and discharge, not counting the use that may arise, in your case, How long does a battery life last?

We've been very lucky with our inventory of packs. I'm very conservative with them (probably overly so) and we get lots of cycles/time. I've got some DJI Phantom3 packs that are probably 36 months old and still in service to some degree. Granted the Phantom3's are now reserved for "Training & Demonstration" roles but they are still flying and most of them have a "Life Rating" of 90% or more. I've got DJI Inspire packs that I bought 2nd hand a good while back and they are still going strong and in use fairly often now. My Mavic packs are roughly 18 months old now (some are newer) and they are the ones that I've lost 2 packs recently. Not sure why as they all get the same treatment etc.

I've got some older "Generic" packs that are 6 years old flying some of my stunt planes etc. They don't get used during colder months at all (I'm a fair weather flyer unless it's for money or Emergency Services missions LOL) and I discharge to roughly 40%- 50% and keep them that way for the winter. Like mentioned above over time and cycles I definitely notice the packs will lose their PUNCH and of course as the IR increases they lose their capacity.

 

[arruntus]

It's clear you're old school. I learn all these things from veterans and experience always rules, for me are like law because still, all those tips to me have not failed me

I guess when you say "veggy criper drawer" you mean the big drawer at the bottom, the vegetable drawer. My wife won't even let me look at it

I've come to see how much electric light costs to have a small refrigerator dedicated only to batteries. I think it's worth considering what batteries cost, especially those that use technology or own connectors like DJI, Yuneec, .... The lack of space has made me stop the idea, for the moment............

I've been looking for the total charge loss graphs that the batteries suffer over time. Let's remember that it's a chemical process and there's always wear and tear, the same thing that happens with car batteries, with time and use they degrade so much that they have to be replaced. So with the passage of time, even if we have them unused and correctly in storage mode degrade. The graphs were very interesting because they showed how simply having them at an incorrect temperature degraded a barbarity, around 8 or 10% of its total capacity each year.

Not so long ago I lost 3 batteries that were fully charged, after it will start raining and return without being able to fly I left them to store them but they "hid" under some papers and lost sight of them. In 4 months I had to throw 3, two of them survived.

Comrades, you know, learn from the veterans, not from me, I'm a handyman

 

[BigAl07]

It's clear you're old school. I learn all these things from veterans and experience always rules, for me are like law because still, all those tips to me have not failed me

I guess when you say "veggy criper drawer" you mean the big drawer at the bottom, the vegetable drawer. My wife won't even let me look at it

I've come to see how much electric light costs to have a small refrigerator dedicated only to batteries. I think it's worth considering what batteries cost, especially those that use technology or own connectors like DJI, Yuneec, .... The lack of space has made me stop the idea, for the moment............

I've been looking for the total charge loss graphs that the batteries suffer over time. Let's remember that it's a chemical process and there's always wear and tear, the same thing that happens with car batteries, with time and use they degrade so much that they have to be replaced. So with the passage of time, even if we have them unused and correctly in storage mode degrade. The graphs were very interesting because they showed how simply having them at an incorrect temperature degraded a barbarity, around 8 or 10% of its total capacity each year.

Not so long ago I lost 3 batteries that were fully charged, after it will start raining and return without being able to fly I left them to store them but they "hid" under some papers and lost sight of them. In 4 months I had to throw 3, two of them survived.

Comrades, you know, learn from the veterans, not from me, I'm a handyman

Yea I guess I've reached the level (at least compared to many) of Old School. I started in R/C back in the early 70's. Back in the late 90's I tried Electric but the power to weight was not there and it was a huge disaster on the first flight. Back then we had to cut out the parts, glue them together, cover the aircraft, install the hardware, and know how to fly them. Unfortunately my first Electric R/C aircraft took over 90 hours to build and flew for less than 20 seconds before it was "re-kitted". It was woefully under powered and I tried to yank & bank before it had enough speed and/or altitude. We've come a LONG way in the power-to-weight department for electric aircraft.

 

[arruntus]

Indeed, around 90 was when it was the revolution of LIPO batteries, which is what allowed the development of multirotors that has been what has driven the sector in a very big way. The beginning was slow but who would have thought that in 20 years we would be as we are now. The key is the batteries and today we are at the same point.

As some of those numerous projects, so hopeful, triumph and suppose for the same amount of energy to cut the weight in half and that the batteries are charged in a fraction of time (everything points to it) and also taking into account the great evolution in performance of the engines, we will live another revolution in which the flying taxis that are already developing right now is only going to be the tip of the icebert. I think it's going to happen and it'll be nice to see

Today what we need is more competition, that there is not only a very large company that monopolizes the entire market (DJI) and then another of much smaller size but the second by difference (Yuneec) that arrives late and badly, but unfortunately remains the second largest, allowing DJI to continue without problems monopolizing the market. If we really want a drone with advanced features (or we could say seeing what we have basics too) we have to go to small companies that do very well but suppose that the price skyrockets disproportionately. There is only one option left, go back to the beginning and build your own UAV with the features you want thanks to the possibility of using open source software. And that's where we are, dron DIY that few are able to carry out and therefore we're back at the starting point, that the market doesn't develop commercially and therefore doesn't evolve as fast as it should

P.D.: I'm sorry, I know I'm losing my mind, but that's how I see it. Unfortunately I have already opted and I am in the process of assembling another drone that will allow me to do everything that the H520 does not allow me, at a fraction of its price and with many more funtions (not counting labor, of course).

P.D.2: Building your own drones allows you to know first hand the price they have (and that without taking into account that you buy the pieces at street price, not at the price of a big company that asks for thousands of pieces and makes them much cheaper) and it is not understood that you compare with the price of a commercial sale aircraft and the price is between 5 and 10 times bigger (sometimes more) when the development work is little bigger than you have done (except that the systems integration is much bigger and the design is better). I don't understand it and it's clear that it's due to lack of competition

 

[WheelsUp]

Does anyone have experience with this off brand battery for the H520?

High Capacity 7900mAh 15.2V Lipo Battery for Yuneec H520 Drone [GFHV7900] - $115.00 : GiFi Power Battery