Battery Best Practices

[moodman]

I have three TH's and they need to be in a ready state at all times for emergency work. But what I have been reading about LiPo batteries is that they need to be in a discharged or half charged state to keep them from (a) swelling and (b) keep their shelf life.

So what's a man to do? How can I keep my batteries charged and ready? When I am called to a job, I do not have time to recharge batteries.

Any advice?

 

[Mrgs1]

If you have to travel a lot for an hour or so you could try charging in the vehicle. Constantly charging and then back to storage would really shorten the life of them without any benefits, might be worth checking out which charger is quickest at safely charging them. Perhaps the 520 would of been a better solution, but is restricted by the cable

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Tethering a typhoon H question

Hoverfly tech has a tethering system for the Typhoon H, how long should it be flown in one event considering the motors do get hot in just a short period of time? Can I fly 1, 2, or more hours without motors burning up? How about the guts of the H can it with stand lengthy flights? Of course hot...

yuneecpilots.com

 

[Phaedrus]

Tethered looks interesting. Not sure it's practical for SAR.
Extended storage of packs at full charge will shorten their life and also yield shorter flight times as they degrade.

 

[PatR]

Foxtech has been advertising a tethering system for some time now, but using 220 as the primary power source and a cost of ~$23k is a bit over the top.

If I had to maintain a system on “hot stand by” I would consider installing an inverter in my vehicle that could supply a two dual charger battery station. I would employ both chargers to top 4 batteries while enroute to a call and while on scene.

 

[ChuckBridges]

My suggestion for your dilemma isn't cheap, but it solves your problem. If you are using them for work and need a certain number of batteries ready, purchase double the amount. Also purchase a charger that will discharge to storage as well as charge, such as the Venom Duo. Keep one set charged and ready for 3- 4 days. Charge the second set, discharge the first. Totate on a regular basis. Label one set A1 A2... label the other set B1, B2... This will allow you to keep a set at the ready and a set stand-by. Purchase the charge stickers in the link below, or see if you can find them at your local hobby shop. They come with labels that will allow you to keep track of charges. I use these stickers and labels to ensure that the batteries keep an even number of flights.

Charge markers

 

[Phaedrus]

Sounds like a good way to go. Maybe keep one fully charged (and discharge it and work it into a rotation of fully charged versus storage voltage). That way you have one ready to go and the others can be fully charged when you need them.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

My suggestion for your dilemma isn't cheap, but it solves your problem. If you are using them for work and need a certain number of batteries ready, purchase double the amount. Also purchase a charger that will discharge to storage as well as charge, such as the Venom Duo. Keep one set charged and ready for 3- 4 days. Charge the second set, discharge the first. Totate on a regular basis. Label one set A1 A2... label the other set B1, B2... This will allow you to keep a set at the ready and a set stand-by.

I agree and to even think more long term, given your setup needs to be ready 7 days a week... I'd put that charge/discharge cycle at specifically 3 days... this will give a consistent 10 cycles per month to keep track of.

 

[daved20319]

Foxtech has been advertising a tethering system for some time now, but using 220 as the primary power source and a cost of ~$23k is a bit over the top.

If I had to maintain a system on “hot stand by” I would consider installing an inverter in my vehicle that could supply a two dual charger battery station. I would employ both chargers to top 4 batteries while enroute to a call and while on scene.

Rather than an inverter, get something that will run directly off 12 or 24 volts. My charger is a Revolectrix PowerLab 6, it requires a separate DC power source, anything from 12-32 volts, doesn't plug into the wall. I run mine with a 300 watt, 24 volt switching power supply, but I could just as easily run it off a car battery. It'll output up to 1000 watts depending on power supply, with the right setup and enough input power, it'll easily charge 3 batteries at one time, and do it quickly. It has various charging modes, fast, accurate, high power, etc., and when using it to discharge with a battery as power supply, it'll do a regenerative discharge, it'll discharge the flight battery and recharge the source. Pretty slick unit, it has a bunch of other features, and can be connected to a PC for even more options, as well as data logging for your battery collection. In you're situation, I'd run a pair of monster deep cycle batteries wired in series to feed the charger, and run it in fast charge mode at 2c. Yeah, I know, a 2c charge rate might shorten your battery life, but probably not as much as leaving them fully charged all the time, or having to cycle them every couple or three days. You could probably charge 3 batteries from storage to full in 30-45 minutes. Hope that helps.

Dave

 

[PatR]

DC direct is a much better idea. What was I thinking?[emoji33]

 

[Phaedrus]

Just keep in mind that if you are using a cigarette is usually on a 20-amp fuse circuit. Charging 4 packs might push it a bit. I use a Optima Blue top deep cycle marine battery for field charging. It's sealed and can tip over, etc. and not spill anything.

If I know I'm going to be doing a lot of charging I use a generator and power supply.

 

[Fred Garvin]

How many batteries will the Blue Top charge?

I used Red Tops in my Vette, but now just a good old Die Hard in my Jeep.

EDIT - I have (2) HTRC-T240......They can run off DC as well as AC. They’re each (2) channel. On DC they run 240W and up to 10A per channel, so I could have a max 40A draw.

I was considering (2) of these for field power:

Portable Power Pack

I was planning to use (1) for the AC outlets powering my T240’s, and (1) to AC power a 32” TV for FPV output when clients want to see what the aircraft sees.

 

[moodman]

All....
You have given me lots to think about. I like the idea of regenerative charging, in that you aren't "wasting" electrons. Using batteries to charge batteries sounds pretty efficient except for the line losses I would get.
All that said, I am now leaning towards having a bench setup with a bank of batteries (set 1 and set 2) that get swapped out regularly. But I am unclear about whether this can be automated or whether I have to visit my bench every few days to manually swap out the currently charging set and put them into a discharge/partial charge mode.

Plus, I don't know the current thinking on battery chemistry as to what is the most gentle way to long-term store them. Would that be discharge, partial charge, 3/4 charge, etc.?

Finally, is there new battery tech on the horizon that will rid us of this problem? LiPo is great tech in terms of storage density, but the downsides on it (swelling, fire hazard, etc) make me wish for something better. Oh, and BTW, we've been talking only about the batteries in the copter, but what about the battery in the controller? It's a LiPo too, right. SO should it be on some kind of maintenance routine?

 

[Mrgs1]

All....
You have given me lots to think about. I like the idea of regenerative charging, in that you aren't "wasting" electrons. Using batteries to charge batteries sounds pretty efficient except for the line losses I would get.
All that said, I am now leaning towards having a bench setup with a bank of batteries (set 1 and set 2) that get swapped out regularly. But I am unclear about whether this can be automated or whether I have to visit my bench every few days to manually swap out the currently charging set and put them into a discharge/partial charge mode.

Plus, I don't know the current thinking on battery chemistry as to what is the most gentle way to long-term store them. Would that be discharge, partial charge, 3/4 charge, etc.?

Finally, is there new battery tech on the horizon that will rid us of this problem? LiPo is great tech in terms of storage density, but the downsides on it (swelling, fire hazard, etc) make me wish for something better. Oh, and BTW, we've been talking only about the batteries in the copter, but what about the battery in the controller? It's a LiPo too, right. SO should it be on some kind of maintenance routine?

No Lithium ion in ST16, you can keep that fully charged.

 

[DoomMeister]

The battery for the ST-16 is a Li-ion of 3.6 V and 8700 mAh. They can be left fully charged without any adverse effects.

Li-ion batteries are not used in the aircraft because of a lower energy density and lesser ability to satisfy higher current demands.

 

[Mrgs1]

And keep one fully charged for spare, it takes a long time to charge. There are quicker means but you have to remove it from the ST16.

 

[daved20319]

All....
You have given me lots to think about. I like the idea of regenerative charging, in that you aren't "wasting" electrons. Using batteries to charge batteries sounds pretty efficient except for the line losses I would get.
All that said, I am now leaning towards having a bench setup with a bank of batteries (set 1 and set 2) that get swapped out regularly. But I am unclear about whether this can be automated or whether I have to visit my bench every few days to manually swap out the currently charging set and put them into a discharge/partial charge mode.

Plus, I don't know the current thinking on battery chemistry as to what is the most gentle way to long-term store them. Would that be discharge, partial charge, 3/4 charge, etc.?

Finally, is there new battery tech on the horizon that will rid us of this problem? LiPo is great tech in terms of storage density, but the downsides on it (swelling, fire hazard, etc) make me wish for something better. Oh, and BTW, we've been talking only about the batteries in the copter, but what about the battery in the controller? It's a LiPo too, right. SO should it be on some kind of maintenance routine?

There's always something new on the horizon, problem is, by the time it goes from prototype to production, that horizon is 10 years out . It could be automated, with the right charger and a computer in the mix, but that raises the issue of monitoring them while charging/discharging, etc. You really should NEVER leave lipo's unattended while on a charger, short of a crash, that's the most likely time something is going to go wrong.

Storage charge is typically ~50%, they last a long time with only minimal degradation in that state. Anything else, and the clock starts ticking faster. It's mostly about charging cycles, unlike other battery chemistries, lipo's have a much shorter cycle life, 150-300 cycles is the norm, vs. up to 1000 for li-ion. Later.

Dave

 

[Phaedrus]

How many batteries will the Blue Top charge?

Haven't used it for H+ packs yet. For RC flying I can get 4 full charges from 20% capacity on 8 5S 5,000 mAh lipos charging at a 1C rate.

So based on that 8 to 9 H/H+ packs at least. The Optima 34M Blue top is a 50Ah battery able to deliver 800 CCA.

Portable Power Pack

I was planning to use (1) for the AC outlets powering my T240’s, and (1) to AC power a 32” TV for FPV output when clients want to see what the aircraft sees.

That is pretty cool. The one thing I would be aware of is my charger when charging 4 H+ packs pulls about 360 amps max. It drops off as the charge progresses. For 2 or 3 packs will fine.

 

[DCH]

I have (2) HTRC-T240......They can run off DC as well as AC. They’re each (2) channel. On DC they run 240W and up to 10A per channel, so I could have a max 40A draw.

I give this charger 5ive stars and a three thumbs up! (You'll have to guess about the third thumb!) LOVE the touch screen, SOooo easy to navigate the menus, and the individual cell display is very helpful at spotting any balance issues. This charger offers a big bang for the buck and the bonus of a compact travel-friendly package!

 

[Fred Garvin]

Yes, they’re really a great deal for the capability. Often they’ll go on sale too. I can charge (8) batteries in 2 hours. I have leads for all my aircraft, so I can charge H+, H, Mavic Air, Tello and even my Syma.....each channel is separate so I can mix batteries and charge as needed.