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Flight time and efficiency

You might want to revisit that stand if you ever experience a flyaway or flight behavior you didn't expect. Consider it, at the least, as cheap insurance.
That was not a recommendation. That was simply a suspicion. The reason I started this thread was to seek advice from others as to what in addition to proper calibrations would result in the best performance. I'm new to drones and in other threads I've expressed my understanding of the reasons for and importance of proper calibrations with the hope if I wasn't clear on a particular concept someone would help my understanding.
In this thread h-elsner mentioned prop balance and vibration and that was exactly the type of input I was looking for. I shouldn't have mentioned flight time in the post title. That was in reaction to my reading multiple posts regarding bigger batteries. I was assuming what they wanted was longer flights and I was considering alternatives . Longer flight times are but one benefit of having a well tuned machine.
 
It is not possible to calibrate an accelerometer in motion.
I have to agree with this statement having dealt with them in the aerospace industry.
I was surprised to see this "In flight" procedure in the revised Typhoon H manual, and questioned its validity. there would be no point. I do not think this is something that should ever be performed. Furthermore I am concerned to see it included in the revised manual, this could get someone into trouble. It should include a strongly worded disclaimer, not just a "Not Required to Perform".

If this is okay to have in the manual, there needs to be a section on routing your ST16 also.
 
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The battery chase game is one of diminishing returns. Ya gotta figure Yuneec took the time to determine the power/weight/ speed parameters to arrive at a battery size and weight that would work best. Whether or not they chose the best designed and manufactured battery is a door wide open for discussion but we know that any battery weighing more than a stock Yuneec battery will require consumption of some amount of energy over and above what is needed for the aircraft at a "normal" weight. Adding capacity most always adds weight so there will never be a heavier battery that provides more flight time without reducing some of that extra flight some amount because of the extra battery weight. It takes porwer to generate thrust and the more weight to be lifted requires more power to generate the thrust to lift it.

I don't know why but some people seem to think there's some magic device out there that will allow our multirotors to fly for as long as we want them to. To fly long duration stuff we need large fuel tanks and an airframe/power system as efficient as possible to obtain long duration flights. it can be done but the cost is very, very high, and it can't be done with batteries alone. The most we can hope to obtain is minor increases in flight time due to differences in the way batteries are manufactured. Larger batteries require more power to lift and carry them so they consume a portion of the extra flight time they were intended to provide, so benefits of a larger battery are very small unless a wide weight range and excess thrust capability was designed into the system. Such a system design can fly light and fly long, or it can fly heavy with shorter flight time, it can't do both at the same time. The H does not have that design latitude, it flies best the way the factory designed it.

When we get a new multirotor we should put a few flights on them and time those flights. From that point we know our flight times will average "X" minutes and just accept it for what it is.
 
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I have to agree with this statement having dealt with them in the aerospace industry.
I was surprised to see this "In flight" procedure in the revised Typhoon H manual, and questioned its validity. there would be no point. I do not think this is something that should ever be performed. Furthermore I am concerned to see it included in the revised manual, this could get someone into trouble. It should include a strongly worded disclaimer, not just a "Not Required to Perform".

If this is okay to have in the manual, there needs to be a section on routing your ST16 also.

I agree with you about the inclusion of the "in flight" calibration process in the revised manual. Even mention of it is a travesty. I've known from the moment that proceedure was announced it was a massive mistake, and it should be removed from the revised manual.
 
When we get a new multirotor we should put a few flights on them and time those flights. From that point we know our flight times will average "X" minutes and just accept it for what it is.

Wurd.

Fly the snot out of something before you start trying to make changes based on what you read on the Interwebs. Once you know your machine then you can start making sound decisions about what will benefit you or not.
 
I agree with you about the inclusion of the "in flight" calibration process in the revised manual. Even mention of it is a travesty. I've known from the moment that proceedure was announced it was a massive mistake, and it should be removed from the revised manual.
I'm very impressed with what Yuneec has provided and am hesitant to dismiss anything they've provided. This is certainly not the case with much other equipment and user manuals with which I am familiar. I still have questions as tto how to deal with the rearward center of gravity of the H. The hovering accelerometer calibration may be a way to address this problem although I still am not clear on the concept. Ironically, your remarks regarding the importance of keeping the H stable when starting makes me question the importance of the initial calibration. That along with the time the calibration takes makes me wonder if a range of values is not taken into consideration. I have no empirical data to support either position and perhaps an intentional mis-calibration will help clarify the situation. In the mean time I'm going to stick with the level surface calibration until a large enough wind free area is available to me. Either that or I just lose interest in the whole thing. Just being realistic here.
 
Guys, the in flight accelerometer calibration is in the OFFICIAL Yuneec Owners Manual for the Typhoon H, Ver. 1.2, page 22, or is that what you're referring to as the revised manual? There is NO alternate method listed, i.e. having the TH level and stationary. Which begs the question, is Yuneec setting us up to fail, or are you guys that are insisting this is the WRONG way to do it, missing something? It's been long enough since I put together a multi-rotor that I really don't remember the technique for calibrating the accelerometer, but I have a vague recollection of doing it in-flight with helis. I get the idea that an accelerometer needs a zero reference, but by its nature, it's a dynamic sensor, so the concept of an in-flight calibration seems logical to me. Or am I totally out to lunch, something my wife maintains is my usual state :rolleyes:? Later.

Dave
 
Exactly @PatR I wold have said the same thing, but my brain isn't able to write as technically as you.
 
Please direct me to this "Airborne " accelerometer calibration procedure. I have never heard of this before and I want to know more. Was this a post on this forum or a YouTube video? I have never come across this in the manual..

It is a YouTube video... THE POSTING OF THIS VIDEO DOES NOT IMPLY A RECOMMENDATION OR POSITION ON THE VALIDITY OF THIS PROCEDURE.

 
The original Yuneec calibration instructions specified calibrating the accelerometers with the aircraft resting on a level surface. The “in flight” idiocy came later and originated in Europe, IIRC.

Think about it for a minute and you just might see the logic in starting out with a level, immobile surface as the baseline for determining an in flight imbalance.
 
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The original Yuneec calibration instructions specified calibrating the accelerometers with the aircraft resting on a level surface. The “in flight” idiocy came later and originated in Europe, IIRC.

Think about it for a minute and you just might see the logic in starting out with a level, immobile surface as the baseline for determining an in flight imbalance.
That's the problem, they don't think rationally, when it comes to aviation.
 
Okay, I went back and reviewed my last FC calibration procedure, it was a Pixhawk clone. The process called for starting with the drone stationary and level, then manually turning it to several different positions. In researching accelerometers in general, this seems to be a more typical procedure, and lets the accelerometer "see" all axes. Now I'm wondering if the compass calibration procedure doesn't "slop over" to the accelerometer somewhat, as it seems the flat/stationary accelerometer calibration procedure is cutting things short. I know, guys, it's probably not important, but I like to know the "why's" behind the "do's". I also don't want my bird to go walk about or fall out of the sky, so anything that can decrease either likelihood, however minor, is worthwhile in my book. Later.

Dave

Edit to add: One other thing that might factor into doing it in flight is vibration, especially if you can't/won't check prop balance. And yes, I see the flaw in this argument, unless you're putting the same prop in the same position all the time, the vibrations will be different. Just sayin'...
 
And another thing...;). Actually, a couple of other things occurred to me. First, the in flight calibration DOES start with a zero reference since it's on the ground before take-off. But more importantly, the calibration process is either in software that can talk to the FC, or written into the FW of the FC itself. Either way, you have to follow the procedure as called for by the manufacture, otherwise, the FC has no idea of what you're doing. In other words, if I used the Pixhawk procedure for the TH, it's probably going to fail, as the FC and IMU will have no idea of what to do with those inputs.

Which brings up an obvious question, has ANYONE calibrated their accelerometers, and what process did you use? Seems to me, if the FC is expecting to be in the air while calibrating, sitting on the ground the whole time will result in a failed calibration. Sorry, guys, I'd be trying this myself, but I'm still waiting on my bird, was supposed to be here yesterday, but weather has everything screwed up in my neck of the woods. Later.

Dave
 
Vibrations will be different when a prop changes relative position to the wind, so prop vibration is not relevant to accelerometer calibration. Prop vibration has tremendous influence on gimbal performance and image stability but where calibrating accelerometers for flight stability purposes that vibration is irrelevant, unless the aircraft is in flight during calibration. Vibration is a combination of forces, and a cyclic vibration during an accelerometer calibration does really bad things to the calibration.

Your Pixhawk clone calibration instructions mimic the instructions provided for Arduino calibration processes. As you mention you have performed additional research relative to accelerometer calibrations you have probably noticed that most of them reference the use of a "table" of some sort to establish a known baseline that is level, immobile, and used as a flat plane to place an accelerometer on in different positions during the calibration process. An accelerometer being calibrated is placed on the test table to measure the initial gravitational value and re-positioned according to manufacturer instructions, which will likely comply with an ISO standard, to obtain reference values for different orientations.

Most calibration processes include the use of gravity for the initial baseline value as gravity is almost, but not quite, a known constant. There are minor variations of the gravitational field that will be encountered at different geographical locations. Those requiring an "absolute" calibration obtain those values and factor them into their computational process but our toys don't require that level of precision. We should recognize that any movement of an accelerometer during the calibration process causes a change in the measured force vector, so movement of a sensor prior to establishing a zero reference point invalidates the calibration process.

When and where larger UAV's employ avionics suites employing accelerometers, the avionics module is initially calibrated on a calibration table. The calibration values are recorded and input to the avionics where they can be reviewed prior to every flight to verify that normal drift has not impacted accelerometer force values. If they have been impacted there are offset values that can be input to "re-zero" an accelerometer. If an accelerometer fails to demonstrate force values that fall within the tolerance after being offset they avionics suite is declared unfit for use. All of this is performed in a static test.

There's a tremendous amount of math used in the calibration process but unless we are acting as a certified calibration test lab we don't need to know it for multirotor calibrations, we only need to follow directions provided by a manufacturer. If a manufacturer provides instructions that are in conflict with commonly accepted and widely recognized calibration procedures we might want to question the manufacturer in order to obtain explanations that qualify their reasoning.

We should also consider we are dealing with Yuneec, a manufacturer with a long history of developing incomplete, inaccurate, and poorly written user manuals, that has never admitted to being in error, that has never admitted to having product or component defects, and fails to provide owners with probable causes of failure after performing warranty repairs.

Me thinks a lot of the debate about the static versus dynamic calibration method stems from a general lack of understanding of what an accelerometer is, what, how, and why they do what they do. Among the multirotor community there is also a considerable lack of aeronautical knowledge relative to flight, which in turn causes confusion with developing a general understanding of an autopilot. If people would individually research accelerometers they would develop a much better understanding after a review of various types of accelerometers and the methods used to calibrate them than they will obtain from a multirotor product forum. I'm including a like to one manufacturer's calibration instructions to provide a visual example of a calibration table.
Calibrating 3-Axis Accelerometers
 
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I’d like to add that using efficiency and multirotor in the same sentence is pretty much an oxymoron. A multirotor is not at all efficient as a flight platform. The only real benefit they provide is the ability to hover and a helicopter does that a lot more efficiently as they only require two rotors to accomplish it, and provide lateral flight with a wider speed range. Efficiency increases further when a lifting body is employed, which requires either wings or an aerodynamically shaped fuselage to accomplish. Imagine what would happen if the space shuttle was designed like a multirotor and tried to glide back into the atmosphere to land.
 

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