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H Plus vs H520 ponder

Mark this thread and thanks for these info mentioned here
Thanks for the reply and do enjoy reading all. Found what I was looking for and now busy again with a
new build to keep me busy thru these long winter cold months. Enjoy what 'All' have to say / write rather good sense or some times, 'sense less'! hi hi Keep up the good work All. Good to keep the hobby well and alive. People like Us All really count.
 
Hello, EdK/ hiflyer1 hr. I’m in the process of collection components for a S900/S1000 build. So far, picked up a new used Lightbidge2 and just had to order wiring harness kit for it. Also joint Lenmuse GH4 gimble used once and like new, more than reasonable. Now looking for a S900 S1000 frame. I’ve built a number of drones and have the q500 and Typhoon H with mod antenna systems. Work great and friend has improved battery mod for Hugh savings on mods. This is a Great hobby, young and old. Hope you find what you are looking for too. Good luck and safe flying. Like your post

Doing similar.... building up a S1000 with modern components: A3Pro & LB2. Taking a bit more, adding E1200 TPS motors, ESC and building a few frame modes to change battery & gimbal mounts... shooting for Zenmuse X5 & Z30 Mounts and the RoninMX Mount & Intelli-G control modules.

I'd agree... the building experiments I've found enjoyable. Don't have it yet, but targeting a A7RIII Full Frame setup eventually. Taking 42+Meg Stills of Capital buildings, architectural structures, or wide DOF scenic along with video is appealing.
 
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Revisiting this thread...
With the recent CES2019 event and the new announced or rumored additions to H520 FW, Cameras, H-Plus enhancements, does this introduce any additional interest either way: H520 or Typhoon Plus ???:confused:

In addition, a 3rd variable... H520-G added to the mix.
Plus... the rumor mill... is a larger platform soon to release, is it a revamped H920?

The interest of the H520 has gained in my viewpoint. From H520 Owners, it sounds like the new FW has added new features and resolved several headaches. The 3rd Party products for survey, mapping, 3D and SAR have added the H520 to their list of supported hardware.

The H-Plus is gaining ground, features & cameras. It too is gaining interest.

The intro of the H520G, will it threaten the H520's market or create a new narrow vertical market. I lean to the vertical market.
Will the H520G spawn a H520C civilian version that does end the H520 & ST16 controller?

I have noticed the resale of the H520 as pretty much stopped. Maybe dissatisfied Owners are reevaluating their investment before offering to sale?

Personally, I'd still prefer a used H520 over a new H-Plus. Since the 3rd party Developers have added the H520 as the sole Yuneec supported product, that added to my preference. I personally don't feel it's worth the current retail price, so I'm looking for the bargain to jump.

The new E10T Thermo camera, in 320 or 640. The 640 is very pricey for Yuneec hardware but if it's a good performing 640, it's comparable to a ZenMuse XT2 640 Flir at a substantially lower cost to a new XT2. A used XT2 640 is in the upper range of the new E10T 640. Again, before the 3rd party support, using a high end 640 IR / Thermo on Yuneec platform wasn't of interest.
 
Having used 320 resolution cameras I can say with absolute honesty I would never buy one unless I knew everything it would be used for was to be very, very close to the camera. At that low of a resolution the definition is quite bad, which makes zonal and shape identification extremely difficult if the camera is more than ~50' from the subject.

With the most recent 520 firmware upgrade the value of the system has increased tremendously., however, that value has yet to rise to the selling price of the system. As I have not compared the various camera controls and settings between the H Plus and the 520 I cannot reach a conclusion as to which would be better. On the surface, if they were equal the 520 would now have the advantage as with the firmware upgrade it could be just as effective, if not more so, for general imagery as the Plus. Adding the benefit of mapping makes the 520 superior to the Plus, but only if the massive price difference can be justified. I believe that a commercial rig should be capable of doing all a "Pro" model rig of the same type can do, and more, especially if there was a considerable pric delta between the two models. If 3rd parties were to initiate development of apps, and if Yuneec's code and policies would allow for easy incorporation of those apps, the 520 could become extremely useful, especially if payload adaptation and communication was possible. PX-4 will easily accommodate a great many control and communication functions but Yuneec's software must allow for such incorporation. The hardware must also provide for new plug in modules, something PX-4 was designed to accommodate.

Hardware expansion is where a redesign/revamp of the 920 makes absolute sense. Dimensionally, the 520 is still quite small, and it's size limits what can be done with it. The 920 provides considerably more space and lift capability that either the 520 or Plus will ever be able to handle, and the flight duration of both the 920 and 920+ are quite reasonable. If payload hardware changes so does the need for adding electrical modules to support those payloads, making available space and lift capability critical to the design of a multi-function aerial system. If the means to add or subtract different components is not provided in a system design that system is destined for a very short life cycle, which is something I find intolerable. Safety and efficiency are significantly compromised when flight operators are subjected to a constant cycle of learning new systems. That fails to mention the costs associated with constantly re-writing ops, maintenance, and training documentation required for submission to professional organizations. It's much better to maintain the basic platform, retaining the general operational characteristics and SOP's that would allow flight operators to become deeply familiar with general operation. That would allow flight training to devote the bulk of their efforts to new operator and currency/proficiency training. Payload modules would have a separate training syllabus and documentation package. In short, follow the lead set by commercial aircraft manufacturers in providing base models where equipment can be added or subtracted as options, retaining primary flight operation features and characteristics to reduce confusion and workload.
 
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Doing similar.... building up a S1000 with modern components: A3Pro & LB2. Taking a bit more, adding E1200 TPS motors, ESC and building a few frame modes to change battery & gimbal mounts... shooting for Zenmuse X5 & Z30 Mounts and the RoninMX Mount & Intelli-G control modules.

I'd agree... the building experiments I've found enjoyable. Don't have it yet, but targeting a A7RIII Full Frame setup eventually. Taking 42+Meg Stills of Capital buildings, architectural structures, or wide DOF scenic along with video is appealing.

Hello Dougcjohn, Nice to hr from U. I have a S965 and close to S1000
Doing similar.... building up a S1000 with modern components: A3Pro & LB2. Taking a bit more, adding E1200 TPS motors, ESC and building a few frame modes to change battery & gimbal mounts... shooting for Zenmuse X5 & Z30 Mounts and the RoninMX Mount & Intelli-G control modules.

I'd agree... the building experiments I've found enjoyable. Don't have it yet, but targeting a A7RIII Full Frame setup eventually. Taking 42+Meg Stills of Capital buildings, architectural structures, or wide DOF scenic along with video is appealing.

Hello Doug, I have a S965 frame and a beauty. Close to S1000 or equal. I'm trying to return the GH4 for it's to hvy and large for what I want. Paid 275. for it
and used once but I had file a claim with Pay Pal. Waiting to hr but hated to do that. Collecting to much stuff so going to unload some on e bay or other site ad places. Tnx for the comment. Have just finished mounting motors and ESCs today. Now going to work on the Brain box this week. Cold and storm hr in upstate NY. hi hi
tnx for the reply and gud luck too.
edk/hyflyer1
 
Hello Dougcjohn, Nice to hr from U. I have a S965 and close to S1000


Hello Doug, I have a S965 frame and a beauty. Close to S1000 or equal. I'm trying to return the GH4 for it's to hvy and large for what I want. Paid 275. for it
and used once but I had file a claim with Pay Pal. Waiting to hr but hated to do that. Collecting to much stuff so going to unload some on e bay or other site ad places. Tnx for the comment. Have just finished mounting motors and ESCs today. Now going to work on the Brain box this week. Cold and storm hr in upstate NY. hi hi
tnx for the reply and gud luck too.
edk/hyflyer1
Hi, Sounds like you're having a great time with build. My apologies, I've looked and unable to find any info on the S965... is it a different brand frame or are you indicating it's a S900 with longer arms for increased prop size?

You indicate the GH4 was heavy, too heavy for platform? The S1000 can easily lift a GH4, much heavier packages, the Red or Full Frame DSLR on a independent gimbal... or conversion with longer struts for the RoninMX.

I was tempted to build a Tarot X4 in a X8 Push/Pull configuration using 8- E800 TSP motors & ESC's. The Quad arm Octal setup looks like a fun project. The few videos look very nice! May try the X4 X8 Octal after finishing the S1000+ build.

The S1000 I'm building with E1200 TPS motors and 18" props will increase arm length to move from 15 to 18" props. I've aquired some USA carbon tubes about .5mm thicker adding substantially to the strength.

Would enjoy hearing more on the S965. Send me a PM if you'd like.
 
As the S900 can carry a full frame DSLR I’m curious as to why a GH3 through GH5 would be too much for a 965.
 
Having used 320 resolution cameras I can say with absolute honesty I would never buy one unless I knew everything it would be used for was to be very, very close to the camera. At that low of a resolution the definition is quite bad, which makes zonal and shape identification extremely difficult if the camera is more than ~50' from the subject.

With the most recent 520 firmware upgrade the value of the system has increased tremendously., however, that value has yet to rise to the selling price of the system. As I have not compared the various camera controls and settings between the H Plus and the 520 I cannot reach a conclusion as to which would be better. On the surface, if they were equal the 520 would now have the advantage as with the firmware upgrade it could be just as effective, if not more so, for general imagery as the Plus. Adding the benefit of mapping makes the 520 superior to the Plus, but only if the massive price difference can be justified. I believe that a commercial rig should be capable of doing all a "Pro" model rig of the same type can do, and more, especially if there was a considerable pric delta between the two models. If 3rd parties were to initiate development of apps, and if Yuneec's code and policies would allow for easy incorporation of those apps, the 520 could become extremely useful, especially if payload adaptation and communication was possible. PX-4 will easily accommodate a great many control and communication functions but Yuneec's software must allow for such incorporation. The hardware must also provide for new plug in modules, something PX-4 was designed to accommodate.

Hardware expansion is where a redesign/revamp of the 920 makes absolute sense. Dimensionally, the 520 is still quite small, and it's size limits what can be done with it. The 920 provides considerably more space and lift capability that either the 520 or Plus will ever be able to handle, and the flight duration of both the 920 and 920+ are quite reasonable. If payload hardware changes so does the need for adding electrical modules to support those payloads, making available space and lift capability critical to the design of a multi-function aerial system. If the means to add or subtract different components is not provided in a system design that system is destined for a very short life cycle, which is something I find intolerable. Safety and efficiency are significantly compromised when flight operators are subjected to a constant cycle of learning new systems. That fails to mention the costs associated with constantly re-writing ops, maintenance, and training documentation required for submission to professional organizations. It's much better to maintain the basic platform, retaining the general operational characteristics and SOP's that would allow flight operators to become deeply familiar with general operation. That would allow flight training to devote the bulk of their efforts to new operator and currency/proficiency training. Payload modules would have a separate training syllabus and documentation package. In short, follow the lead set by commercial aircraft manufacturers in providing base models where equipment can be added or subtracted as options, retaining primary flight operation features and characteristics to reduce confusion and workload.
Couldn’t agree more on the H920 upgrade parameters. I’m actually more optimistic for a Yuneec large platform or revision of the H920 than 12 months ago. With the H520G model, and as you’ve indicated is a smaller low payload craft. It will serve Govt projects well for it’s scope, but if Yuneec gets a solid foot into Govt contracts I see a large platform of similar USA circuitry and Firmware as a strong possibility... I’d guess 900-1600 scale. The need for payloads in the 10-25 lb range: LiDAR, Laser, Multi Lens IR, or Starlight systems... and those can be hefty, Gen3 scope added almost 4 - 5 lbs. This would include delivery systems... dropping sequential marker flares, RTK bases, large light systems, or even troop supplies... medic resupply, various explosives supplies, etc.

Endless thoughts of possibilities... heck who saw a Chinock CH47 backing up & dropping Rr ramp on a mountain cliff allowing medics or scientist (or SOG ;)) to literally walk on / off Bird moving supplies... ramp touching edge while Pilot holds a hover almost perpendicular to cliff surface at an extreme altitude barely substanable or abtainable when the CH47 was designed... new avionics, fuel systems, Live AV systems ( glorified backup cameras) and hush secret blade & swash provide computer sync between the two blade systems. Point being, get into Govt Aerial contracts and the possibilities could be endless if Yuneec could respond fast enough.

The H520, I see the death of the standard H520 & ST16 RC being replaced by the 520G hardware design, I think the replaceable screen panel will become standard... if only to control inventory supplies. Govt version will demand a tough screen and probably at 2x -3x the iPad;s brightness,,, similar to the CrystalSky UB but as a screen only, without OS.

The camera platform and available cameras / lenses will be next on G model. From my perspective, this is all good news because all this will trickle down to the 520C or standard model.

Fully agree with need of platform remaining constant and familiar. Provide new payload technology while keeping platform familiar... that requires an adaptable and Supported platform... probably Yuneec’s weakest asset.

Reguarding the IR Thermo. The current 160 camera is very limited. The 320 if good electronics, can separate a human from surroundings... able to see and detect a human body through smoke, a small child walking in woods/corn... all at about 100 feet. At 200’ max, it’s a good vegetation analysis system but not SAR. The 640 adds much more detail, able to see fingers move, eyes blink or useable in more dense smoke or high moisture ground fog. For the additional $2-3k, if needing a high-end IR Thermo, the 640 is worth the extra.
Is the E10T a non-radiometric or true radiometric? If true radiometric it’s actually a great price and for inspectors or SAR, the 640-R makes it a worthwhile platform to invest.

If the H520 “series” is on the development path, it’ll be the preferred platform between the H-Plus & H520. Personally, unless it’s improved for extreme cold, battery warmers, rains and wind, redundant motor circuits, tandem battery for failsafe, etc. I don’t see how Yuneec can justify the price tag when it’s so similar to H-Plus hardware.

On the battery subject, I’m surprised the G model wasn’t required to have tandem batteries for redundancy specs.
 
I’m surprised it doesn’t have redundant batteries just to enable selling more ridiculously high priced batteries.

Where thermal cameras are concerned they need to look into medium wave IR. It drastically expands IR functionality. For EO cameras, there are small payloads available to government users that smoke everything available to commercial or consumer buyers. The ability to differentiate feathers on a bird from a mile away without using digital zoom as an example. If Yuneec wants to entertain government buyers they need to leave their software open to integrate them. The companies that make them have refused to enter the civilian market but are open to adaptation for government use. Gimbals are better as well.

Yuneec has to accept there’s a need to ship aerial units without payloads but having open and accessible coding, allowing for customer integration after delivery. The payload technology will never be allowed to be manufactured in Asia. They also need to dump the OTA firmware update concept. That is a non starter with government contracts. The system is air gapped or it won’t be employed.
 
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I’m surprised it doesn’t have redundant batteries just to enable selling more ridiculously high priced batteries.

Where thermal cameras are concerned they need to look into medium wave IR. It drastically expands IR functionality. For EO cameras, there are small payloads available to government users that smoke everything available to commercial or consumer buyers. The ability to differentiate feathers on a bird from a mile away without using digital zoom as an example. If Yuneec wants to entertain government buyers they need to leave their software open to integrate them. The companies that make them have refused to enter the civilian market but are open to adaptation for government use. Gimbals are better as well.

Yuneec has to accept there’s a need to ship aerial units without payloads but having open and accessible coding, allowing for customer integration after delivery. The payload technology will never be allowed to be manufactured in Asia. They also need to dump the OTA firmware update concept. That is a non starter with government contracts. The system is air gapped or it won’t be employed.
:cool: Ya think Yuneec "retail" batteries are pricey... can't wait to see Govt Usage Batteries, maybe they'll gladly take the 2-3 year old ones on the back shelves!

I hear ya on the military spectral cameras, ;) you'll want express that very quietly, the Consumer wouldn't understand why they cost so much to the tax payer, they'd be shocked at the $$ expended on small hi-tech components. The avg SAR company couldn't / wouldn't approach this hardware, they'd never get realistic ROI. A Flir unit at $12-18K back pedals most... including myself knowing you're not able to assess fees that would provide a profit, especially if assisting local law enforcement.

Full agreement on the OTA firmware... from day one, that wasn't acceptable for many reasons. Never understood why that even took off for a file set that is critical to be accurate and able to restore prior versions if needed. Ahhh...answered my own questions in a sort.

Payload offered via AC Vender or 3rd Party, correct it should be a separate package and utilizing separate gimbals. Part of the packaging philosophy we were eluding to above... Adaptable and modular components.

In a sort, looks like were more providing specs for the larger platform. Most of this gets out of range in size & weight for the H520 series. The smaller scale has driven the small units in condensed, light integrated packages. Although that could be addressed, it'd require a redesign in the small platform form motors, prop size, etc.
 
The smaller, man portable size class has already been addressed in multiple ways, from micro multirotor, micro heli, through light medium sized fixed wing. Only a fool would try to target a full market. Having a much lower price assures nothing in the government sector. OTOH, the alignment with 3DR, such as they are, is quite a leg up. Then again, targeting an already saturated product class falls directly into their current design and marketing strategy; always three steps behind.
 
Tuna,

I don’t believe anyone was suggesting to use you and your talents to do an end run around Yuneec. OTOH, you have a history of producing good functional software and generating updates as needed vastly faster than Yuneec does. Basic waypoint flight planning has been available as a standard function with consumer level drones as far back as 2013-2014 when they were equipped with APM or Mikrokopter flight controllers. In my view Yuneec has deliberately limited their consumer equipment by removing or omitting that feature from the base FC they build off of. I have two such non DJI COTS machines in my shop where at any time I can sit down with a laptop, program a mission directly to the FC, launch and observe, or launch, fly, interrupt a mission and redirect the aircraft as needed. No APK’s or Apps required. The same applies to a wide variety of flight mode selections. That both cost less than an H Plus, can be fitted with my camera of choice, have very long range when operated with telemetry radio and antenna tracking as conditions require, and are both extremely high in reliability and positional accuracy should not get lost in discussion. Those facts establish Yuneec could provide the same or similar if the desire was present as both use APM and Pixhawk FC’s, which is the deconfigured basis of the H-480 FC. Sure, the 580 and H Plus are using PX4 but rapid development of PX4 came to a screeching halt over 3 years ago due to a massive falling out between the developers and various corporate interests. Many of them bailed from the group, removing many of the best from further PX4 development. That programming a basic orbit feature with waypoint tangent intercepts had not been incorporated with PX4 is a fair indication of developmental problems. Having to stop at each waypoint on a flight plan to change direction is a miserable failure. We might also consider that 3DR released a version of their X-8 in 2015 specifically designed for mapping and directly integrated with Pix4D software and did a **** fine job with a Canon point and shoot camera.

That Yuneec wants to play to different groups of consumers is commendable but the manner they have been serving them leans a bit towards the deplorable as once their products are released the bugs they contain are slow to be corrected, if they are corrected at all. They need to be aggressive in process and product improvement or risk experiencing exactly what has been occurring with product owners seeking their own solutions. That both the 520 and H Plus were released with poor gimbal horizontal positioning pretty well establishes the focus has been on getting new airframes out the door for sales generation, not getting new products out the door that satisfy their customers needs. There’s the appearance of an attitude of “take the money and run”. They did rather well with the Typhoon H with a series of firmware improvements but have fallen flat on their faces with the 580 and releasing the H Plus without some of the features in the H-480, including NFZ wavered software, along with a pin cushion lens was either extremely poor quality control, poor planning, or deliberate. As 580 corrections still languish I'll call the problem one of prioritization. Fixing what's broken is not high on the priority list. Pick the one that suits the moment.

If they want to be competitive they have to meet customer needs and demands. If they desire only to pick up the few that won’t or don’t buy another brand they still need to keep that group relatively happy if they want to remain in business. I don’t know very many people that will spend $1,600.00 to $4,000.00 knowing they will have to develop “work around's” for that new equipment to function as it should have before it went into distribution. Few will wait indefinitely for fixes that may never or don't get delivered.

Bear in mind some of us still know how to build what we want or need and are not dependent on a company to provide us what the company feels we should have. In having that knowledge we have the ability to quickly recognize corporate BS before we step in it and choose a path that takes us around it instead of through it. The only drawback for us is having to use an external monitor instead of a screen incorporated with the transmitter. OTOH, we can pump data directly to anywhere we want to at longer ranges and higher resolutions without needing an HDMI cable.

Unlike Yuneec we don't need, or want, to do the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

Very well stated sir, I couldn’t agree more. Being a Typhoon H (480) owner I really want to upgrade to the H plus, however the lack of features on the H plus that are on the H(480) along with software and hardware issues (yes still apparent in August of 2019) make me hesitant.
I want to have confidence and faith in the new Yuneec products but I believe my next purchase will be an Autel Evo.
I’ve also read (speculation only) that yuneec is working on an update version of the H plus. I guess we will see.. ?
 

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