LIPO Batteries - How to use them and some infos on them

Mmilo1971 · Mar 4, 2020

I am collecting informations from the forum and online about Lipo. My experience with them is dated as I was Flying rc models yeaaaaars ago

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If I start and share the document would someone help? After the document is complete it can be stored here in the forum.
Ciao

Mrgs1 · Mar 4, 2020

There plenty of information on here and links to sites with a tremendous quantity of information, it's good for us to search and find out as much as we can to avoid confusion.

PatR · Mar 4, 2020

The more you learn about them the better off you are. Should you share what you’ve learned just be sure the info is correct.

Mrgs1 · Mar 4, 2020

The more you learn about the Power 4 and other Yuneec ones are they are an over priced commodity.

Photo · Mar 4, 2020

Mrgs1 said:
The more you learn about the Power 4 and other Yuneec ones are they are an over priced commodity.

Mrgs... If a service and/or product, what ever brand. sells in high volumes it's not overpriced...

Mrgs1 · Mar 4, 2020

Photo said:
Mrgs... If a service and/or product, what ever brand. sells in high volumes it's not overpriced...

Yes it is, third party batteries can be had for half the price, especially with battery conversion, we've never had cheap Yuneec batteries in UK, regardless of quantity, there seems to be a case/ evidence of lower quality as the production run went on, the earliest battery's certainly in my experience and a few others are constructed it seems with a better pack, the latest ones have been or certainly when tested are of an inferior quality, correctly stored at Yuneec (so say) and are pretty much useless.

h-elsner · Mar 4, 2020

Please share your experiences.
Here is where we can start (or end up):

Complete Guide to LiPo Batteries and Failure Reports - Part II. - RC Groups

Discussion Complete Guide to LiPo Batteries and Failure Reports - Part II. Batteries and Chargers

www.rcgroups.com

Brw., I would like to know the opinions from the crowd, what is the best way to approximate the remaining capacity [%] from the voltage of the LiPo. I know that this depends on a couple of parameter like age of the battery, temperature and so on. But somehow an assumption has to be made.

I tend to relay on a reference table from RCGroups.com:

RC Groups - View Single Post - Lipoly Voltage vs. State-Of-Charge (Remaining Capacity)

RC Groups - the most active Radio Control model community: electric and fuel rc airplanes,rc helis,rc boats and rc cars. Features discussion forums, blogs, videos and classifieds.

www.rcgroups.com

In the past I used an algorithm from Yuneec like it is in ST16 FW.
Any other proposals?

Here is a comparisation of those rules with a result from TLOG file of H520:

green/purple is from RCGroups and Q500log2kml (latest version),
blue is Yuneec ST16 algorithm
red is H520 TLOG file result.

br HE

Mrgs1 · Mar 4, 2020

Tables are a good reference, like you say lots of variables, the weather a major one, nothing better to me personally than judging the conditions as best you can, keeping a close eye on things on the controller, it's real time and gives you a idea if a decision has to made quickly.

PatR · Mar 4, 2020

H-elsner,

I don’t have a clue as to whether or not my capacity estimates are a valid measurement or not but I record the mA input for a new battery that had been discharged to 3.2v and charged to peak capacity. I compare that, along with cell peak voltages and IR over time to determine a quality estimate.

I’ve always used mA instead of voltage to establish use of capacity percentages. It’s just too hard for me and the equipment I have available to work with voltage. Complicating that is cells having the same peak voltage are constructed to provide numerous mA capacities independent of cell quantity.

Estimating use time for me is like throwing darts at a stock market sheet. There’s no consistency across aged battery packs. I just know that as mA capacity decreases so does use time, with elevated IR’s contributing greatly to the reduction in time and battery stability.

Mrgs1 · Mar 4, 2020

It all gets too complicated for me, I'd just get out and enjoy the copter, we have enough hassle to contend with now and in the future, I think the vast majority here know theircopter well enough.

h-elsner · Mar 4, 2020

The typhoon H has no sensor for current [A], only for voltage [V]. If we want to estimate the remaining capacity [%] during flight and there is no intelligent battery the question is, how?
With a charger it is easy. Charger "knows" time, current and voltage.

br HE

Mmilo1971 · Mar 4, 2020

h-elsner said:
Please share your experiences.
Here is where we can start (or end up):

Complete Guide to LiPo Batteries and Failure Reports - Part II. - RC Groups

Discussion Complete Guide to LiPo Batteries and Failure Reports - Part II. Batteries and Chargers

www.rcgroups.com

Brw., I would like to know the opinions from the crowd, what is the best way to approximate the remaining capacity [%] from the voltage of the LiPo. I know that this depends on a couple of parameter like age of the battery, temperature and so on. But somehow an assumption has to be made.

I tend to relay on a reference table from RCGroups.com:

RC Groups - View Single Post - Lipoly Voltage vs. State-Of-Charge (Remaining Capacity)

RC Groups - the most active Radio Control model community: electric and fuel rc airplanes,rc helis,rc boats and rc cars. Features discussion forums, blogs, videos and classifieds.

www.rcgroups.com

In the past I used an algorithm from Yuneec like it is in ST16 FW.
Any other proposals?

Here is a comparisation of those rules with a result from TLOG file of H520:
View attachment 20496

green/purple is from RCGroups and Q500log2kml (latest version),
blue is Yuneec ST16 algorithm
red is H520 TLOG file result.

br HE

What you posted is very interesting, most of the information you are posting were in my knowledge too but some of them are well explained.

PatR · Mar 5, 2020

Voltage and consumed mA are closely related. With practice we can estimate mA percentages from reported voltage. It’s not accurate and requires a few flights tracking data.

If we have a reliable OSD with the correct reporting points it gets real easy but consumer drone makers don’t provide that detail.

h-elsner · Mar 5, 2020

PatR said:
Voltage and consumed mA are closely related.

Exactly this is the question: How it is related?

There are a lot of different rules out there. But what is the best?

br HE

PatR · Mar 5, 2020

h-elsner said:
Exactly this is the question: How it is related?

There are a lot of different rules out there. But what is the best?

br HE

I’ll follow your lead in this as I don’t have a good answer.

All I can say is as mA are consumed to deplete a battery voltage decreases, just as current increases voltage decreases. The question for me is: at what rate? Do changes in mA and volts directly parallel?

paulejr · Jun 9, 2020

h-elsner said:
The typhoon H has no sensor for current [A], only for voltage [V]. If we want to estimate the remaining capacity [%] during flight and there is no intelligent battery the question is, how?
With a charger it is easy. Charger "knows" time, current and voltage.

br HE

back in the 70's, using NiCad for competition RC cars, when testing gear changes, one used digital charger and multi meter to determine use times vs speed and longevity of charge. we use to get boxes of the1.2 volt , wire them up and then test to time and V and M to see which would give the best performance in an 8 minute race. Well , flying drones today is some what different but V and M over T , can be a useful equation for racing drones if time is a factor and not distance or laps. Shame we cannot get M from the ST16 but who knows ,if one is racing to get the next " great photo " …..