Malfunction / drone attack

[kjschaudt]

Excuse my terminology. we usually fly DJIs. My daughter passed along their Typhoon H to diagnose problem. Her Typhoon H would not return. Testing, we found that it flew well, rotated on command and was stable. When we saw that it followed our movement, we realized that it was in a follow mode. Landed, took it out of smart mode, put it in angle mode and powered up. Launched, hit up and it rose an inch or less. Saw it was tilting backwards and pushed down on the stick. Instead moving down, it rapidly moved towards the pilot. The landing gear caught on the table and flipped it on its back and crashed. Damage appears to be 1 cracked propeller mount and 2 loose joints on the arms. Called Yuneec to see if they knew why it would have "attacked". They said that they have heard of similar problems and want to see the flight logs. No help on the damage since it is past warranty. Could someone help with the following.

1) How do we submit the flight logs? Never got the requested instructions from the Yuneec technician. Was able to download the various log files created during that flight. Do they need all of them?

2) Before I spend $$ to repair the damage, does have an idea as to why it "attacked"?

3) Any good sources for the required parts? Any service manuals available?

Best

Ken

 

[Ty Pilot]

My 1st Guess - Smart Mode. I know you said you landed and put it in Angle but are you 100% sure?

If you are new to flying Yuneec, and do not fully understand Smart Mode, this is what can happen. Smart mode basically uses the GPS fix of the aircraft and controller and "Attempts" to create an 8 meter circle around the pilot that the aircraft will NOT enter. The first problem is the GPS on the aircraft and the controller are not 100% accurate down to the centimeter or inches - it can be off by several feet or meters. In addition, when the aircraft and controller are close to each other this compounds the problem as now; not only is the distance from each other wrong but now the direction "away" could also be wrong.

If, (as in your case) a pilot attempts to take off in Smart Mode and in close proximity to the aircraft, upon lifting off, the aircraft will automatically try to escape from within the "Smart Circle" and this is where the GPS inaccuracy can cause it to fly in a direction it has calculated as away from the pilot when in fact it is going right towards them.

My 2nd guess is that you may have been around some metal possibly underground that caused a compass error and resulted in erratic flight.

Can you upload the telemetry from the flight? Only the telemetry file for now, you will need to put a .txt extension on the end to upload it here.

 

[PatR]

If you send all the flight logs it reduces the odds they will ask for the ones you didn’t send. Upload all of them to a cloud service such as Dropbox and give them the link and permissions. I know they access Dropbox but don’t know about others.

Service manuals don’t exist to my knowledge but repairs are fairly easy. Most of the components are close to plug and play with the exception of electrical board components. If there’s a need for soldering to make a repair you might be better to send it back for repairs.

You said you pushed down on the stick, which stick was it?

 

[kjschaudt]

The last 2 telemetry files are attached.

My 1st Guess - Smart Mode. I know you said you landed and put it in Angle but are you 100% sure?

If you are new to flying Yuneec, and do not fully understand Smart Mode, this is what can happen. Smart mode basically uses the GPS fix of the aircraft and controller and "Attempts" to create an 8 meter circle around the pilot that the aircraft will NOT enter. The first problem is the GPS on the aircraft and the controller are not 100% accurate down to the centimeter or inches - it can be off by several feet or meters. In addition, when the aircraft and controller are close to each other this compounds the problem as now; not only is the distance from each other wrong but now the direction "away" could also be wrong.

If, (as in your case) a pilot attempts to take off in Smart Mode and in close proximity to the aircraft, upon lifting off, the aircraft will automatically try to escape from within the "Smart Circle" and this is where the GPS inaccuracy can cause it to fly in a direction it has calculated as away from the pilot when in fact it is going right towards them.

My 2nd guess is that you may have been around some metal possibly underground that caused a compass error and resulted in erratic flight.

Can you upload the telemetry from the flight? Only the telemetry file for now, you will need to put a .txt extension on the end to upload it here.

The last 3 files are attached. I think but am not sure that the only one of interest is "60"

Am I 100% sure that Ian put the controller in Angle mode? No. Your explanation sounds plausible. If that is the case, then the only problem is that we have to repair the damaged parts.

 

[kjschaudt]

If you send all the flight logs it reduces the odds they will ask for the ones you didn’t send. Upload all of them to a cloud service such as Dropbox and give them the link and permissions. I know they access Dropbox but don’t know about others.

Service manuals don’t exist to my knowledge but repairs are fairly easy. Most of the components are close to plug and play with the exception of electrical board components. If there’s a need for soldering to make a repair you might be better to send it back for repairs.

You said you pushed down on the stick, which stick was it?

CS sent a notice saying case closed instead of a note saying where to send the logs. I'll drop them a note and ask where.

Two arms now wiggle at the joint / lock. Don't see a crack in the hook eye or latch. One of these arms has a broken motor mount. Any suggestions for finding a replacement?

Don't have the controller in front of me. It was the one that we would have expected to cause the drone to go done.

 

[PatR]

Parts can be obtained from numerous sources, dealers and the manufacturer.

We’ll let the stick question go as your answer provided the clarity I was looking for.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I just quickly checked the telemetry of that last flight and the good news is; you were not in Smart Mode at any time, the entire flight was performed in Angle Mode, also did not see any compass warnings or any error flags. The bad news is; If that was the flight in question it would appear that it may have been caused by unfamiliarity with the craft.

Carolina Dronz usually has parts , here is a link to their Yuneec Parts

 

[AeroJ]

If your arms move up and down now, that is likely because of a cracked shell, which may not be immediately obvious. Inspect it carefully around those areas to ascertain if that is the case.

 

[kjschaudt]

I just quickly checked the telemetry of that last flight and the good news is; you were not in Smart Mode at any time, the entire flight was performed in Angle Mode, also did not see any compass warnings or any error flags. The bad news is; If that was the flight in question it would appear that it may have been caused by unfamiliarity with the craft.

Carolina Dronz usually has parts , here is a link to their Yuneec Parts

Interesting. It behaved exactly as you described for being in smart mode. When he pushed to go down on the stick, it rapidly moved towards him.

 

[kjschaudt]

Interesting. It behaved exactly as you described for being in smart mode. When he pushed to go down on the stick, it rapidly moved towards him.

Best case would be that it was pilot error.

 

[Ty Pilot]

In Smart Mode on the standard H, it does not stop you from taking off if you're too close, but as soon as it is airborne it will begin to leave the circle and will not wait for a command. But as was seen in the telemetry, the craft was in Angle so It does look as though it was pilot error.

 

[DCH]

In Smart Mode on the standard H, it does not stop you from taking off if you're too close, but as soon as it is airborne it will begin to leave the circle and will not wait for a command.

This is an interesting observation, and it seems like it should behave in this fashion, however mine handles the situation a little differently. If my H (Pro) finds itself inside the GPS fence, either upon take off or I select Smart Mode while in close proximity to it, it won't try leave on its own, if it's hovering it will remain stationary. I can move it to either side or away from me, just not any closer to me until it gets outside the fence. If I move toward it it will retreat, but not to the specified fence distance, it will maintain the original distance. Sounds like I may have a Smart Mode malfunction. If so, this is something I didn't give any thought to or would have never discovered because I don't use (or like) Smart Mode.

 

[Steve Carr]

This is an interesting observation, and it seems like it should behave in this fashion, however mine handles the situation a little differently. If my H (Pro) finds itself inside the GPS fence, either upon take off or I select Smart Mode while in close proximity to it, it won't try leave on its own, if it's hovering it will remain stationary. I can move it to either side or away from me, just not any closer to me until it gets outside the fence. If I move toward it it will retreat, but not to the specified fence distance, it will maintain the original distance. Sounds like I may have a Smart Mode malfunction. If so, this is something I didn't give any thought to or would have never discovered because I don't use (or like) Smart Mode.

I have seen the same while the H is in hover. After it is airborne, Smart mode seems to behave differently than at takeoff. Also, if you have flown beyond the geofence distance and switch to Smart mode the H will not just fly back inside the circle. It will stay at that distance but won't let you fly further.

 

[Steve Carr]

The last 3 files are attached. I think but am not sure that the only one of interest is "60"

It appears flight No. 60 was just a power on and not a flight. The H was picked up and carried while the motors were off.

Does this look like the location of where you did the test?

 

[booboo]

Ty...you sound knowlegable. Was flying my Typhoon, among power lines & transformers attempting to take pics of a neighbors house, controls basically went haywire. Was this the fault of the items above? I assume it is but wanted to be sure.

Also, if you have time, is it possible to fly two Typhoons in the same area....within a few feet if each other? If so, how does one change frequencies?

Thank you for any advice!

My 1st Guess - Smart Mode. I know you said you landed and put it in Angle but are you 100% sure?

If you are new to flying Yuneec, and do not fully understand Smart Mode, this is what can happen. Smart mode basically uses the GPS fix of the aircraft and controller and "Attempts" to create an 8 meter circle around the pilot that the aircraft will NOT enter. The first problem is the GPS on the aircraft and the controller are not 100% accurate down to the centimeter or inches - it can be off by several feet or meters. In addition, when the aircraft and controller are close to each other this compounds the problem as now; not only is the distance from each other wrong but now the direction "away" could also be wrong.

If, (as in your case) a pilot attempts to take off in Smart Mode and in close proximity to the aircraft, upon lifting off, the aircraft will automatically try to escape from within the "Smart Circle" and this is where the GPS inaccuracy can cause it to fly in a direction it has calculated as away from the pilot when in fact it is going right towards them.

My 2nd guess is that you may have been around some metal possibly underground that caused a compass error and resulted in erratic flight.

Can you upload the telemetry from the flight? Only the telemetry file for now, you will need to put a .txt extension on the end to upload it here.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Perhaps. I know high voltage lines can cause problems but not sure of how high a voltage it takes or how close is too close. @PatR may have more specifics about this subject. As to flying next to other Typhoons - not a problem. Back in the day when the first WiFi RC units began to hit the market (Spectrum), one of their engineers; who I believe is now with Yuneec explained how it works and most of what he said went over my head but I do remember he talked about how wifi was not like a radio signal on a signal frequency but, was able to send 'packets' of information in available slots within a given spectrum - hence the name I guess.

In any case one of the first demonstrations was at a major airshow in Greensboro where we had about 30 pilots put these radios into their models and we stood very close together, like a mob (big no no in the radio days) - no channel pins, no idea on what frequency we were - and not a single malfunction.

Me and a fellow Typhoon pilot have been standing next to each other and our aircraft were withing feet without a hitch.

 

[booboo]

Ty,

Really appreciate the response! That was great news about close proximity flying. Hadn't thought about the WiFi signal situation! Got a great plan (now - thanks to you) on what I want to do with my two old Typhoons.

After the near control loss next to the power lines, for safety's sake I did a Bind (etc.) procedure to see if that helped. Have not flown it yet.

Thank you very much Ty!

Tallahassee
Bill Catalina

Perhaps. I know high voltage lines can cause problems but not sure of how high a voltage it takes or how close is too close. @PatR may have more specifics about this subject. As to flying next to other Typhoons - not a problem. Back in the day when the first WiFi RC units began to hit the market (Spectrum), one of their engineers; who I believe is now with Yuneec explained how it works and most of what he said went over my head but I do remember he talked about how wifi was not like a radio signal on a signal frequency but, was able to send 'packets' of information in available slots within a given spectrum - hence the name I guess.

In any case one of the first demonstrations was at a major airshow in Greensboro where we had about 30 pilots put these radios into their models and we stood very close together, like a mob (big no no in the radio days) - no channel pins, no idea on what frequency we were - and not a single malfunction.

Me and a fellow Typhoon pilot have been standing next to each other and our aircraft were withing feet without a hitch.

 

[DCH]

one of their engineers; who I believe is now with Yuneec explained how it works and most of what he said went over my head but I do remember he talked about how wifi was not like a radio signal on a signal frequency but, was able to send 'packets' of information in available slots within a given spectrum - hence the name I guess.

This is not over my head, it's right up my alley. To spare the long boring technical explanation, bottom line is you can fly an unlimited amount of UAVs in close proximity without any interference whatsoever. China set a world's record using 1300 UAVs to put on a stunning choreographed night time aerial display.

Power lines should always be a concern, though most of the time they shouldn't create a problem -as long as you don't hit one! All power lines create an electromagnetic field as current flows through them. How far that field extends from the lines and how much it interferes with a UAV depends on many variables within the grid, voltage carried, number of lines, transformers etc., how much energy the lines are transmitting can be difficult to predict. Flying in the proximity of power lines is a case where extreme caution and common sense should dictate.

To bad there isn't anything "Common" about "Common Sense"!

 

[AH-1G]

@booboo
I was this close to a power line didn't have issues with controlling. Not saying others should attempt this, just be very careful.

 

[DCH]

Not saying others should attempt this, just be very careful.

Just looking at that registers a 7.8 on the pucker meter!