Malfunction / drone attack

[booboo]

Hey Thanks!

I liked your quote at bottom the best. I need to remember it.

I knew I might be headed for trouble as I was between power lines & within 50 feet of a transformer but gave it a go anyway. About 30 seconds into the flight all was well. Then a left bank developed instantly to a right bank with the lever hard over to the left. I adjusted as needed. Then it wouldn't back up so I could land but kept going forward slowly. Fortunately forward was straight into the lady's soft lawn grass where I landed. Fortunately down was actually down! Close!

Like I told Ty, do you think a Bind after something like that did any good? I doubt it myself but for safety's sake, I did one anyway. Still haven't flown it yet.

I just saw a new post from another guy about his experience with power lines. Thank you all for your help and the drone videos!

Bill Cat.

This is not over my head, it's right up my alley. To spare the long boring technical explanation, bottom line is you can fly an unlimited amount of UAVs in close proximity without any interference whatsoever. China set a world's record using 1300 UAVs to put on a stunning choreographed night time aerial display.

Power lines should always be a concern, though most of the time they shouldn't create a problem -as long as you don't hit one! All power lines create an electromagnetic field as current flows through them. How far that field extends from the lines and how much it interferes with a UAV depends on many variables within the grid, voltage carried, number of lines, transformers etc., how much energy the lines are transmitting can be difficult to predict. Flying in the proximity of power lines is a case where extre

This is not over my head, it's right up my alley. To spare the long boring technical explanation, bottom line is you can fly an unlimited amount of UAVs in close proximity without any interference whatsoever. China set a world's record using 1300 UAVs to put on a stunning choreographed night time aerial display.

Power lines should always be a concern, though most of the time they shouldn't create a problem -as long as you don't hit one! All power lines create an electromagnetic field as current flows through them. How far that field extends from the lines and how much it interferes with a UAV depends on many variables within the grid, voltage carried, number of lines, transformers etc., how much energy the lines are transmitting can be difficult to predict. Flying in the proximity of power lines is a case where extreme caution and common sense should dictate.

To bad there isn't anything "Common" about "Common Sense"!

me caution and common sense should dictate.

To bad there isn't anything "Common" about "Common Sense"!

 

[booboo]

@booboo
I was this close to a power line didn't have issues with controlling. Not saying others should attempt this, just be very careful. View attachment 12567

Thanks DCH. Yes, the only thing closer than that would be landing on the insulator itself. Your caution is noted!

 

[booboo]

Hey Thanks!

I liked your quote at bottom the best. I need to remember it.

I knew I might be headed for trouble as I was between power lines & within 50 feet of a transformer but gave it a go anyway. About 30 seconds into the flight all was well. Then a left bank developed instantly to a right bank with the lever hard over to the left. I adjusted as needed. Then it wouldn't back up so I could land but kept going forward slowly. Fortunately forward was straight into the lady's soft lawn grass where I landed. Fortunately down was actually down! Close!

Like I told Ty, do you think a Bind after something like that did any good? I doubt it myself but for safety's sake, I did one anyway. Still haven't flown it yet.

I just saw a new post from another guy about his experience with power lines. Thank you all for your help and the drone videos!

Bill Cat.

This is not over my head, it's right up my alley. To spare the long boring technical explanation, bottom line is you can fly an unlimited amount of UAVs in close proximity without any interference whatsoever. China set a world's record using 1300 UAVs to put on a stunning choreographed night time aerial display.

Power lines should always be a concern, though most of the time they shouldn't create a problem -as long as you don't hit one! All power lines create an electromagnetic field as current flows through them. How far that field extends from the lines and how much it interferes with a UAV depends on many variables within the grid, voltage carried, number of lines, transformers etc., how much energy the lines are transmitting can be difficult to predict. Flying in the proximity of power lines is a case where extreme caution and common sense should dictate.

To bad there isn't anything "Common" about "Common Sense"!

DCH....on the video display, they had to be computer controlled right? No way each person could keep track of whose was his.

 

[PatR]

DCH made a very good point about EM field strength based on current level. Recently I had to do some research with PG&E about this subject, with high tension lines having a minimum safe distance of 17’ in all directions for lines carrying ~400kV. Higher voltage required greater distance. High kV lines are not shielded or insulated. The only insulation is at the big ceramic insulators. Transformers add to the equation as some may leak energy and cause frequency conflicts. We are quite dependent upon how well power companies maintain their equipment if we elect to participate in close proximity flying. If you’re on the west coast it’s become evident maintenance is not as good as it could be.

Personally, I’d try to remain at least 20’ from power transmission equipment. Preferably a little more.

 

[booboo]

DCH made a very good point about EM field strength based on current level. Recently I had to do some research with PG&E about this subject, with high tension lines having a minimum safe distance of 17’ in all directions for lines carrying ~400kV. Higher voltage required greater distance. High kV lines are not shielded or insulated. The only insulation is at the big ceramic insulators. Transformers add to the equation as some may leak energy and cause frequency conflicts. We are quite dependent upon how well power companies maintain their equipment if we elect to participate in close proximity flying. If you’re on the west coast it’s become evident maintenance is not as good as it could be.

Personally, I’d try to remain at least 20’ from power transmission equipment. Preferably a little more.

"High kV lines are not shielded or insulated!" News to me. Thanks Pat. I've learned my lesson. Thankfully I recovered in the right direction & landed safe in 4 inch grass!

Bill Cat.

 

[DCH]

Like I told Ty, do you think a Bind after something like that did any good? I doubt it myself but for safety's sake, I did one anyway. Still haven't flown it yet.

Not sure a re-bind would help, but I would do an accerlerometer & compass calibration just in case.

DCH....on the video display, they had to be computer controlled right? No way each person could keep track of whose was his.

A pretty elaborate computer driven control-hub system managed it all. This was not the first time drones were used in a display, and China is not the only place this has been done. China has launched over 1,000 drones simultaneously before, this was just the largest with 1374 (lifting off, there were some casualties).

It serves to illistrate that elecrtonically speaking each drone has a unique ID.

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!

 

[DCH]

Personally, I’d try to remain at least 20’ from power transmission equipment. Preferably a little more.

This is sound advice, I would say even further if you can. It doesn't take much of an EM field to effect the compass. I frequently see Compass Calibration warnings even 30~50 feet from some power lines I fly around a lot in my area. I even seem to be be getting them over the length of the 350' of buried power line on my property when I fly at lower altitudes around the clearing.

 

[booboo]

Accelerometer & Compass Calibration! Forgot all about that! Thanks!

So they did have some crashes after that mass flight! Surprised it didn't cause a domino effect when they were stacked vertically.

Thanks a lot for the into DCH & Pat & Ty!

Hey, I fly ultralight aircraft. One day, for the **** of it, I put my older Typhoon in smart mode, flew it about 1/4 mile in front of me, had it hover facing me, I then took off with the ST10+ in my lap! Interesting results! Yes, it crashed but the fault was mine. It's on YouTube but not sure of the title. If you want to watch it, try typing in "Bad Day at Black Rock." Not sure though!

 

[PatR]

I don’t know if this was covered earlier, but it’s related to your question about flying multiple H’s together, or other systems using 2.4GhZ. This frequency covers a lot of territory and gets split up in small segments that can be used simultaneously by multiple systems. Our systems also employ what’s known as a hop capability to locate and set themselves on a portion of the frequency range not in use when the system starts looking for it. Once acquired our systems will “hop” to another portion of the frequency if the portion being used becomes crowded and causes a predetermined number of info packet drop outs. It’s this capability (low conflict probability with numerous users) that largely made 2.4 so desirable over the old 72MhZ band, where only one aircraft at a time could fly on the specific frequency. There are different kinds of hop tables and I don’t know the name of the one used by Yuneec, so please don’t ask

 

[booboo]

Pat, it's guys like you that put me & my feeble mind to shame. However, I did survive many thousands of hours flying decrepit old aircraft like Beech 18s and DC-3s so I couldn't be completely stupid. Thanks a lot for your input!

 

[kjschaudt]

It appears flight No. 60 was just a power on and not a flight. The H was picked up and carried while the motors were off.

Does this look like the location of where you did the test?

View attachment 12537

Exact spot. In hindsight, we should have gone back to the open field for this test.

 

[PatR]

However, I did survive many thousands of hours flying decrepit old aircraft like Beech 18s and DC-3s so I couldn't be completely stupid. Thanks a lot for your input!

You sir, are a man with many great stories to tell and a pilot with more talent and skill than I could ever have. Anyone that can consistently handle a plane with the center of gravity ahead of the steering wheel instead of behind it commands respect, and the ability to deal with one where multiple engines can and do severely effect the ground steering is simply awesome. They had to invent nose wheels to enable us mere mortals to be able to fly.

 

[booboo]

Well shucks Pat! You embarrassed me! A lot of luck played in that too. Many guys, much better pilots than me, died simply because their luck ran out. Look, just in case you might be interested, I wrote a book. Believe me, I could care less if you bought it or not since the profit margin is so small but if you're an airplane pilot and want to read of some really flat out wild and crazy flying south of the border and the characters therein, it's on Amazon. "Over & Back" by Wild Bill Callahan. Kindle is $18. Paperback is outrageous. Amazon will let you read about 35 pages for free. As you wish and many thanks for your advice & compliments!

 

[booboo]

Steve,

Got a curiosity question for you or anyone who wants to answer concerning the H model. That one has six fans I believe. My question is, if one blade/motor stops turning for any reason, can the others compensate for it and allow it to fly?

Probably not but thought I'd ask anyway. May buy one in the future. Thanks!

Bill Cat.

It appears flight No. 60 was just a power on and not a flight. The H was picked up and carried while the motors were off.

Does this look like the location of where you did the test?

View attachment 12537

 

[thetrecker]

Steve,

Got a curiosity question for you or anyone who wants to answer concerning the H model. That one has six fans I believe. My question is, if one blade/motor stops turning for any reason, can the others compensate for it and allow it to fly?

Probably not but thought I'd ask anyway. May buy one in the future. Thanks!

Bill Cat.

yes it will / can Yuneec Typhoon H 5 motors mode not that i would want to find out and try but nice to no

 

[PatR]

It will, and does. Any hex or octo with ample reserve thrust can do this, but Yuneec uses a complex power management method to succeed in doing this.

 

[h-elsner]

Flight No 60 is the one in question.

You have a very bad GPS signal. The accuracy of the GPS is so bad that flight controller gets wrong coordinates and when tries to stabilze it jumps here and there. In between there some GPS lost.

To say more we need also the Remote_00060.csv and the file RemoteGPS_00060.csv.

br HE

 

[otsog]

This is an interesting observation, and it seems like it should behave in this fashion, however mine handles the situation a little differently. If my H (Pro) finds itself inside the GPS fence, either upon take off or I select Smart Mode while in close proximity to it, it won't try leave on its own, if it's hovering it will remain stationary. I can move it to either side or away from me, just not any closer to me until it gets outside the fence. If I move toward it it will retreat, but not to the specified fence distance, it will maintain the original distance. Sounds like I may have a Smart Mode malfunction. If so, this is something I didn't give any thought to or would have never discovered because I don't use (or like) Smart Mode.

Our Pro does that too. The H does not.I think so - the Pro has been out into safe mode shortly after takeoff, the H has not. Since the H has been erratic with GPS and compass issues, it may be a while before I test it.

 

[booboo]

yes it will / can Yuneec Typhoon H 5 motors mode not that i would want to find out and try but nice to no

Thanks Steve, yes indeed nice to know!....before the money! Bill

 

[kjschaudt]

Flight No 60 is the one in question.

You have a very bad GPS signal. The accuracy of the GPS is so bad that flight controller gets wrong coordinates and when tries to stabilze it jumps here and there. In between there some GPS lost.

To say more we need also the Remote_00060.csv and the file RemoteGPS_00060.csv.

br HE

The two files are attached.

Looks like we made at least 2 errors. We found it was in follow mode during initial tests in a large open field. Error 1: In this flight, we tested it on the patio where the view to the N and S was obstructed by homes. That may have contributed to the poor GPS signal. initially tested it in a large open area
Error 2: Looking at the controller settings, I learned that it was setup reversed from the controls that the pilot expected. In hindsight, we should have looked at the settings before flying. The pilot had cautiously nudged the stick to test the controls when it responded aggressively.

Looking more closely, it appears that the only damage is the spring clip in the arm and 5 props. Could not find any cracks in the shell and mounts even under a hand lens.

Many thanks for the help.