That's what I was getting at. I was noticing that there is a restricted area around a close by school. Even with a hobbyist cert I could legally fly close to those limits but by doing so, especially when school is getting out, could likely raise concerns. In other words it would be stupid to do so. Common sense please.I can think of as many reasons not to get a 107, maybe I should make a video for that.
Part 107 Drone License a good idea?
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Okay, but you were questioning why someone would need to un-register their drone (your post #7 above) so my first response to you was an attempt to explain the differences in a 107 and a 336 registration. You then claimed you don't remember seeing any of the requirements I mentioned - thats because you are flying under the 336 rule, you would not have known this but hopefully it makes sense now. By the way, and this is just a PSA: even if you are a hobbyist, if you sell your drone - it would be a good idea to take the registration number off.
It seems that from my initial post you were assuming that my concerns were with me personally getting a 107 cert. That was definitely not the case.
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PatR
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In a manner of speaking, there are but they are extremely conditional. Many state and national parks ban the operation of RC aircraft within their perimeters. However, many have a process place where someone conducting commercial film making to apply for and obtain permission. Of course there is one or more fees attached.
PatR
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The video information is wrong. The map does not depict prohibited zones, but zones recognizing 5 mile circular airspace around airfields. Many of the airfields noted are not in controlled airspace as most uncontrolled fields have no restricted airspace associated with them. That’s the problem with services like AirMap and B4UFly. They were designed around being scare tactics, not as accurate airspace information. Those that have been doing this stuff for awhile know scare tactics are nothing new for the FAA as they have in the past sent cease and desist letters to people using or conducting commercial drone services over s year before they had any authority over them. They depended on the population to be ignorant of the law in order for people to quickly comply.
As for the difference between recreational and commercial around airports, it’s the commercial operator the must have permission before flying within 5 miles if an airport. Until Part 349 is made effective the recreational operator has only to notify an airport operator of their intent to fly and the location. The way Part 336 was written there is no requirement for a recreational operator to actually converse with another human involved in airport operations to obtain permission, they need only to notify. E-mails, voice mails, certified letters, answering machine messages, etc., that can be proven constitute notification. Not the best practice but they meet the legal requirements.
Nothing in the above should be construed to mean flying near airports is a good idea, acceptable, or a smart thing to do. Far from it as model flight near airports is an extreme risk situation, especially if conducted at the arrival and departure ends of an airport at any altitude.
If you need to understand the law (you certainly do) you should read the actual law and not rely of social media or hobby sites for your information. Part 333, 336, 107, and 349 are all available for free online. So are text books that teach you how to read and use legal aeronautical charts, which is THE tool that lets you know the who, what, where, and when that influences everything you do relative to airspace and flight operations. Of you don’t want to buy aeronautical charts you can review them for free at www.skyvector.com. Airport contact info is also available at the same website.
Don’t rely on YouTube or he said, she said types of information. Because they can make a slick video does not mean they are accurate with the subject matter. Anyone can make and post a video, just as everyone becomes an authority the moment they tap the send button. Read the actual law.
PatR
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There are a great many hobby operators that have done precisely that and many have become problems for the industry. As you mentioned, registering as a hobby operator does not include drone specific registration requirements. The operator registers themselves and receives a number that extends to all of their aircraft.
A hobby operator that sells or wrecks their aircraft is not required to notify anybody about anything. Just remove the registration number and say goodbye to it. A commercial operator is a different story.
I’ve enjoyed several videos by Jeff S, although this one is a little misleading.. with all good intentions.
The first 4 aren’t really reasons on the legality side of discussion. It is accurate if you sell or “you” use the video in any manor to profit ( advertise, instrument to sell something else, attract to other revenue like web site, etc) you’d technically require a PT107. The reason I state technically, many post as YouTube to share and it becomes popular but it’s not a business... if listed correctly, it will generate profit. This wasn’t the intention, and very doubtful these will ever attract a legal challenge. Abstract question, on a vacation and you enjoy a zip line ride while holding your drone using the camera to film your ride. Or sitting on top a double decker bus tour, or a helicopter ride using drone’s camera on tour. Later post these events, would you require a PT107? Is the video’s appearance any different... not always. You use the smooth gimbal to film the walk through and around a house you intend to personally list... any different... same camera
The other half is the involved entity (person)... if “you” directly or indirectly obtain profit. What if you simply want to share your adventures and upload to 1 of 1000’s free photo stock sites where you release all rights in the fine print. Someone grabs your video and uses a few segments in their footage... any rules broken in commerce? Now, 1 year later you see footage that looks nice, reminds you of your adventures and you grab it from another free stock site for your web site... later you discover it’s actually a piece of your previous video... any rules broken? Nope on all.
The 5th reason is debatable in accuracy... uncontrolled airspace doesn’t have requirements... their is always latitude in interpretation of helpful apps or sites. As a Hobbyist, you can fly within 5 miles but you need to follow the rules of notification... and that is less than PT107 requirements. Yes, there are differences but not to the degree stipulated in video. This forum isn’t a legal forum, so I’ll avoid specifics, but would direct you to read a few sites. You can muster through the FAA’s site lengthy material or read several other sites that provide accurate interpretation.
An example I often use that is very popular... paticually in July. Night flying to film fireworks. A PT107 is required to obtain a night waiver and may not receive in time, the Hobbyist needs to notify Towers within zone and equip drone with required night visibility approved lights.
I’ve been on a few outings where we stopped to film a river or fly in an empty park and had no idea we were on the other side of a tree line from a small town airstrip. The Yuneec Typhon H gave no indication, nor prevented flight from an airstrip less than a 1/2 mile away, the DJZ crafts failed requiring you to acknowledge NFZ precautions, although in this situation it was too close and required 3rd level approval which we didn’t obtain. I’m not sure what class airport the Typhon will prevent flight... I haven’t experienced it, but it isn’t small town rural airports.
A few quick google sources: Hobbyist Drone near airports.
FAA: Frequently Asked Questions
PT107 instructional site: How Can Drone Pilots Fly within Five Miles of an Airport? - UAV Coach
OAPA: Best Practices for Flying your Drone within Five Miles of an Airport - AOPA
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As a former FAA employee I may be biased but I've always felt that the FAA was on the side of users. Pressures from above are what have led to unrealistic restrictions. Keep in mind that the FAA Administrator is a political appointee. And as I stated in my original post politicians often take positions which they feel are beneficial to them without regard to reality.
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Another reason to understand Aeronautical charts and other resources.
Federal Aviation Administration - Graphic TFR's
SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts
TFR Data Elements
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Agree on that one... or no matter how small the dust bowl town driving through, take a look at the charts.
My example was more focused on your previous comment on the NFZ preventing the H flying.
Haven’t yet experienced the H not taking flight where often the DJI is prevented.
Phaedrus
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Just FWIW, the FAA does not care about profit, being paid, money exchanging hands, etc. Their view is focused on intent and if there was an intent for the furtherance of a business. So if you fly, and fly is the operative action, holding the drone and using the camera is not flying, with the intention to obtain images that can be used to further a business, then that is a Part 107 flight. You volunteer at a zoo and they ask you to take some video of the zoo for their use in promoting the zoo, that is a Part 107 flight. You fly while on vacation and post it to YouTube and the hotel you stayed at wants to use your video, then that is NOT a Part 107 flight because you did not launch with the intention of acquiring video for them to use.
And it is always your responsibility to know where you are flying. Relying on the drone to tell you you cannot fly is not the proper approach.
And the new hobby (now called Recreational sUAS) rules in Section 349 will allow flights up to 400 feet AGL in Class G airspace with no notifications required. Flying in all other airspace requires actual permission from the ATC facility responsible for that airspace.
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Point was to help with understanding with a different angle of view... my example of non-flight video was to indicate it’s not flown but produced via a drone with end result appearing as a flight. Within a YouTube post question, it’s often indicated the requirement to have a PT107 and my intent was to indicate video inspection isn’t accurate and most likely won’t result in legal action.
Intent for the furtherence of a Business vs profit, the FAA case if pursued in court would attempt to show business venture which would normally include profit gained in some fashion... intent for furtherment is the action, profit is the result.
That is actually good news for the Hobbyist... increased latitude in comparison to increasing guidelines for professional.
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Phaedrus
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Perhaps. What remains to be seen is how the request for permission will be done and if ATC folks will actually grant them and what restrictions they might impose. There is also some verbiage about established CBO flying locations working out agreements with ATC when those fields are in Class B, C, D, or E (surface). Lots of uncertainty in those areas. But for people flying in Class G airspace it is good news. Oh, and there will be a Recreational sUAS test that people will have to have proof of passing with them while flying.
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