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Part 107 Drone License a good idea?

When you are within an ATC 5 mile fence the H will not start up.


Only for certain high traffic towered airports. I've flown my H+ within a mile of a couple of low use Class G airspace airports with no problems. There used ot be a link to the Yuneec list of NFZ airports. I can't find it right now. I can also tell you from personal experience that Yuneec did a fair bit if testing at a flying site within 5 miles of a Class D airport without tripping any NFZ locks.

Here is a list I saved of California airports:

Beale Air Force Base
Edwards Air Force Base
Los Angeles International Airport
Metropolitan Oakland International Airport
Ontario International Airport
San Diego International Airport
San Francisco International Airport
Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport
Sacramento International Airport
John Wayne Airport-Orange County Airport
Travis Air Force Base
Vandenberg Air Force Base
 
Perhaps. What remains to be seen is how the request for permission will be done and if ATC folks will actually grant them and what restrictions they might impose. There is also some verbiage about established CBO flying locations working out agreements with ATC when those fields are in Class B, C, D, or E (surface). Lots of uncertainty in those areas. But for people flying in Class G airspace it is good news. Oh, and there will be a Recreational sUAS test that people will have to have proof of passing with them while flying.
Many unknowns to be clarified... the outcome or motivation is more control; using safety & security as primary when I personally doubt that’s accurate. The small professional UAV entity will be most challenging, in comparison to the large enterprises. That’s why it’s surprising to read the new Regs and the extended latitude for Hobbyist in several areas. With all current push to control or have awareness of the drones and limiting their possible threat, I was expecting the Hobbyist class to become more restrictive. The possession of a recreational UAV test will be basically nothing in content and ability to pass elementary; it’ll be used more as a indirect form of registration or statistical data.
 
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This is a great app to have. When you get a 107, a waiver can be as quick as 30 seconds.
Skyward
I’ve used the free version of Skyward for sometime, and several other nav maps and apps. So many have bits that are nice and other apps have other bits.

Looking for the one perfect app... :)
Also looking for Nav Maps that will enlarge more than most and retain their clarity. I’d often like to look a little closer to smaller print or towers.
 
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That is actually good news for the Hobbyist... increased latitude in comparison to increasing guidelines for professional.

As much as I would like to agree with the premise of being good for the hobbyist, I cannot. As our machines are designed in a manner that will permit idiots and the ignorant to successfully fly, idiots and the ignorant continue to do so. As a full scale pilot I have tremendous fears of flying an approach to landing or post take off departure 1/2 mile out from the runway and in the last second of my life see a multirotor appear in front of my wind screen.

There are people that gain pleasure observing airplanes arriving and departing airports and it requires little imagination for them to buy a drone and fly it next to an airport to obtain a better and lasting vantage point. Some of them have even asked in this site how to get around airport restrictions.

Many general aviation aircraft climb between 300’/min to 600’/minute depending on their weight and weather conditions at ground speed between 60kts and 80kts. Descent profiles using approach light indicator systems provide glide paths for ~500’/minute rate of descent. Those figures put a drone being flown at 400’ within a mile of an airport inside manned aircraft flight paths.

As many act impulsively without regard of consequences there must be a sterile zone around airports where drones cannot be flown without ATC approval and being seen on airport radar.
 
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As much as I would like to agree with the premise of being good for the hobbyist, I cannot. As our machines are designed in a manner that will permit idiots and the ignorant to successfully fly, idiots and the ignorant continue to do so. As a full scale pilot I have tremendous fears of flying an approach to landing or post take off departure 1/2 mile out from the runway and in the last second of my life see a multirotor appear in front of my wind screen.

There are people that gain pleasure observing airplanes arriving and departing airports and it requires little imagination for them the buy a drone and fly it next to an airport to obtain a better and lasting vantage point. Some of them have even asked in this site how to get around airport restrictions.

Many general aviation aircraft climb between 300’/min to 600’/minute depending on their weight and weather conditions at ground speed between 60kts and 80kts. Descent profiles using approach light indicator systems provide glide paths for ~500’/minute rate of descent. Those figures put a drone being flown at 400’ within a mile of an airport inside manned aircraft flight paths.

As many act impulsively without regard of consequences there must be a sterile zone around airports where drones cannot be flown without ATC approval and being seen on airport radar.
Well, I learned something new... the Ole' Guy flies inside the canopy too. You fly a self built experimental craft?

Have to agree with you on the whole spectrum viewpoint, although for the hobbyist it is a clear gain in their latitude within the new regs. Another small incentive to remain hobby classified along with the additional increase in standards for the professional.

As indicated elsewhere in thread, I'm surprised the hobbyist wasn't limited or reduced in latitude... actually I thought the Hobbyist classification would be structured in a new manor where local enforcement would gain significant jurisdiction... creating a significant difference & incentive to be a Professional classification.

In a similar manner as CDL Class A-C is primarily regulated & enforced by Federal DOT enforcement regulations where common drivers fall under standard state law enforcement... yes, I realize not the same, the point is different class of licenses and different enforcement, rules, reg's. To have transportation business, requires a CDL... and larger scale has higher classification CDL.

That may be an intended direction over time, separate the classifications and increasing standards for professionals.

Along the line of safety near airports or any controlled air space, as quick as models are cycled, new models will most likely contain FW that enforces compliance and allows some enforcement to override the UAV. For the few that retain older models, you'd gain flexibility that might eventually be viewed as illegal if flown outside the permitted scope... but you'd have a highly sought platform.
 
Well, I learned something new... the Ole' Guy flies inside the canopy too. You fly a self built experimental craft?
.

Commercial Pilot; ASMEL, Instrument Airplane, Ground and Flight Instructor. I don’t do home builts, the first flights are much too risky.

Those and giant scale RC got me into UAV’s. Without demonstration of proficiency I view the 107 ticket as kind of a joke, but as demonstrated by the restrictions placed on commercial operators that are not inflicted on recreational flyers it’s obvious the FAA, and by association the DOT, don’t use any logic in their rule making.
 
Commercial Pilot; ASMEL, Instrument Airplane, Ground and Flight Instructor. I don’t do home builts, the first flights are much too risky.

Those and giant scale RC got me into UAV’s. Without demonstration of proficiency I view the 107 ticket as kind of a joke, but as demonstrated by the restrictions placed on commercial operators that are not inflicted on recreational flyers it’s obvious the FAA, and by association the DOT, don’t use any logic in their rule making.
Very Nice! Single & Multi! Haven't seen that one for many years... ASMEL.
 
Commercial Pilot; ASMEL, Instrument Airplane, Ground and Flight Instructor. I don’t do home builts, the first flights are much too risky.

Those and giant scale RC got me into UAV’s. Without demonstration of proficiency I view the 107 ticket as kind of a joke, but as demonstrated by the restrictions placed on commercial operators that are not inflicted on recreational flyers it’s obvious the FAA, and by association the DOT, don’t use any logic in their rule making.
From your experience & background, can clearly understand your rational on 107. With less than what... 10% population pilots, probably 30% of those remotely intersted in RC, 70% of those interested in sUAV... the development up to the current technology probably wouldn't exist due to lack of market, profit and competitive developers.

Now add the behavior and attitude of new generation's view of automation and thought processes... it's a boxed package that gets replaced. The YouTube's of max range flight and max altitude confuse me.

I'd agree should be more than a 60 question multiple choice test, and a demonstration of proficiency would be an improvement. But there will always be the incentive of profit and market gains to feed the cycle. As much as media applies scare tactics, it hasn't reached the level needed to thin the herd and rethink the process... started in 2016, 2nd version 2019... we have a ways to go... but IMO the next version will be more enterprise scale focused. I do think we'll get there... like auto's in the 30's, it'll reach a point.
 
Very Nice! Single & Multi! Haven't seen that one for many years... ASMEL.

I still use the ratings as originally provided on my original licenses. The way the FAA revised things after mandating photo ID’s and started issuing plastic cards “simplified” license classes. They don’t reflect the amount of work that goes into obtaining one any more. I’m not a “prideful” person but I do take a lot of pride in my aviation accomplishments, especially as I was working full time as a carpenter to support a family throughout the process. They weren’t things that could be done half a$$ed.

The problem with the 107 license is that anyone that can memorize an answer to a test question can obtain one. That’s pretty similar to teaching a monkey to place a square peg in a square hole. No skill required, just a lot of repetition. There is nothing in place to modify behavior or establish that test subject matter would be retained and used in flight activities, something that would be demonstrated with flight proficiency testing. The careless and reckless can’t hide during a proficiency test, and those that are impulsive or prone to defective reasoning are quickly exposed.

Prior to the introduction of automated flight multirotors there was never a need for model aviation proficiency testing. People short on knowledge and ability quickly destroyed their aircraft, and generally did so at locations dedicated to RC aero activities. The introduction of aircraft that required no skill or knowledge that could be launched from virtually anywhere changed that.

There is an absolute need to assure the everyday person off the street is cognizant of their responsibilities before they are allowed to buy and fly. If such qualification did nothing else it would demonstrate a level of responsibility, something the general media consistently implies we lack. Regrettably, I believe they are correct.

Worse is that I know one or more manufacturers are pandering to the media to reinforce that perspective in order to use the media to cause the general public to support legislative implementation of manufacturer developed flight restriction software along with remote ID and flight tracking devices.
 
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I like the monkey comment. When I was in nuclear power school in the Navy they used to tell us they could teach a chimp to run the plant. They needed sailors there in case something went wrong.

There is an absolute need to assure the everyday person off the street is cognizant of their responsibilities before they are allowed to buy and fly. If such qualification did nothing else it would demonstrate a level of responsibility, something the general media consistently implies we lack. Regrettably, I believe they are correct.

I agree with this regarding MR. I absolutely disagree with it regarding a guy learning to fly an actual model airplane. Basically to me there are two parts of this hobby. The older established segment where if you let go of the sticks you crash. And the other segment where you can let go of the sticks, take a phone call, grab a cup of coffee and when you decide to look again your MR is where you left it. Both are great hobbies, and I enjoy both. But they have almost nothing in common beyond both using a radio to control them.

And it looks like I'm the low man on the license totem pole here. I'm only a lowly ASEL and Glider (aero-tow & winch).
 
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Thanks for the info. I seem to recall having seen that page before but don't recall seeing the requirement.
I took some time to review the FAQs and all seemed straight forward until I came across this:

"Q23. What happens if I sell my drone?
A. You should email [email protected] and the team will update your registration information. We also strongly encourage you to remove your registration number from the drone before the transfer of ownership."

I don't recall providing any specific information about my drone so I don't understand what would be updated.

That is for a drone registered under a part 107 cert used for business purposes. Your hobbyist cert number can be used on an unlimited number of aircraft. You are registered as a hobbyist, not your aircraft.
 
Phaedrus,

You and I are in complete agreement, especially where the opinions about differences in RC and licensing is concerned.

As for being low man on the totem pole, I disagree quite a bit. That glider rating puts you at the top of the pole. That extends to RC as well. I don’t know of very many powered or RC airplane pilots that can keep a plane in the air once the engine stops, or that can read the weather conditions well enough to maximize flight time and still land the airplane to fly it again another day.

Flying a full scale glider is one of two aviation related things I’ve had on my bucket list. The other was flying an open cockpit biplane, which I got lucky and completed.
 
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Cheers to both Pat & Phaedrus, you're in a small percentage that have accomplished a rare set of piloting skills. I'll gladly take bottom stump on the pole, my ambitions were more rotor than prop but a military waiver on height of 6'8" was a negative, so I took the rear seats with other skills. Later discovered most private endeavors had same result... ft 2 seats have height limitations, within my budget. Congrats to all the pilots on the forum!

Couldn't agree more on a proficiency test... I've expressed in previous threads the need to learn or appreciate RC Heli's to gain basic skills and understand the dynamics of flight. I continue to feel the need to understand the dynamics of flight is important but practically totally lacking within the retail sUAV's. There isn't any need to understand flight dynamics when the craft essentially flies itself.

How do you visualize a proficiency test; more aeronautical charts, regulations, and non-flying associated skills? It wouldn't be limited to actual pilots for multiple reasons... which as indicated above for me, that's a positive; and skills are obtainable utilizing other methods. If it's basically a flying proficiency evaluation, I think it falls short due to technology within the sUAV. As Pat indicated, prior to sUAV the RC hobby was a small group due to the skills required and those skills were quickly identified or you didn't fly. How many times did we see a new proud Owner show up at the field, take off... and crash. I saw RC Heli's fire up and within 10 seconds destroyed. The skill sets to fly the modern sUAV (quad to octal) isn't too challenging that a young person (8-12 yrs) with 15 minutes of instruction can lift off, hover and fly. If he's a focused Lad, respects the aircraft he's controlling, can acquire the spectrum of flying within a few days. I don't see his youth limiting his "flying" skills, especially when you compare to how many in their teens upward behave in flying a sUAV. Again, this isn't touching on the other aspects within the scope of sUAV, just the flying.

It's often discussed different tactics to land, that in itself is using electronic technology to land. On a RC Heli (or plane), bringing it down requires an understanding & skills. I'm not bashing the technology, the focus of the sUAV is photography and to "reduce" the skills of flight, which it accomplishes... but also provides no incentive to understand flight and the associated dynamics.

What aspects would you feel required within a proficiency test for sUAV piloting?
 
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I think a lot of proficiency test should follow the process used in full scale.

1) System comprehension. You will never be in command of an aircraft unless and until you understand what makes it work. The applicant should be able to describe the systems used in their aircraft and how each associates with others to make it all work. Batteries, chargers, GPS, accelerometers, baro altimeter, flight controller functionality, frequencies used and what each is applicable to, the reason for calibrations, aircraft and system inspections, description of lost link/lost comms functionality.

2) Decision making. How someone deals with various situations is predictive of how they will operate when they are by themselves. Just like full scale, provide the applicant with a flight location and tasks where they will have to describe what they will or won't be able to do, how they would conduct the flight, how they would mitigate risks, how many batteries would be necessary, battery depletion level and when a battery should be changed out, whether or not the flight could be flown at all.
I well remember being provided a destination for a 50+ mile cross country to plan out and present to the examiner. It was technically a beautiful VFR day but had towering cumulus clouds for much of the route of flight. High humidity, and temperatures were expected to rise considerably throughout the day. Could we have made the flight? Yes, but we would have been beaten up badly by moderate to severe turbulence for most of the flight. Due to an onshore flow of moist air that was being blown by a light wind up the slopes of nearby mountains the prospect of encountering T-storms during the flight was pretty high. My suggestion to go somewhere else and save that destination for another day demonstrated an understanding of things that affect flight and reasonable decision making.

3) Demonstrate manual control of the aircraft. Anyone can fly an automated aircraft. Truth is, they really aren't flying one at all, they are simply telling it the direction they want it to go by pushing on a stick. The aircraft is flying itself when in an automated or semi autonomous state and it doesn't need anyone at the sticks to fly well. Make applicants fly in modes like Atti, Non GPS Angle, or Stabilized where GPS provides no directional assist and the aircraft drifts with the wind if the operator fails to allow for wind drift. Demonstrate manual take off and landing, preferable with some level of wind present. Observe how far they elect to fly out to determine if they truly understand what line of sight means.

4) Describe and Demonstrate emergency procedures. If they don't know what to do when chit starts hitting the fan they don't need to be flying. The last thing we need is some guy running around waving his arms around in the air like the kid running out of the forest in Robin Hood, Men in Tights when things start going wrong. People need to know what to do well enough to automatically shift into emergency mode the moment something happens, not fumbling around trying to figure out what to do. Determine if they understand there could be a time the only appropriate action would be one that caused the destruction of their aircraft via an intentional power cut at altitude.

For commercial operators the tasks need to be more demanding, and include additional demonstrations of crew coordination/delegation of tasks, use of VO's, safety briefings, site surveys, descriptions of spectator and crowd control scenarios, effective risk mitigation, use of aeronautical information in mission planning, and accident reporting. It should be demonstrated that a commercial pilot has a far greater understanding of their aircraft and be able to extract maximum performance from the aircraft.
 
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I think a lot of proficiency test should follow the process used in full scale.

1) System comprehension. You will never be in command of an aircraft unless and until you understand what makes it work. The applicant should be able to describe the systems used in their aircraft and how each associates with others to make it all work. Batteries, chargers, GPS, accelerometers, baro altimeter, flight controller functionality, frequencies used and what each is applicable to, the reason for calibrations, aircraft and system inspections, description of lost link/lost comms functionality.

2) Decision making. How someone deals with various situations is predictive of how they will operate when they are by themselves. Just like full scale, provide the applicant with a flight location and tasks where they will have to describe what they will or won't be able to do, how they would conduct the flight, how they would mitigate risks, how many batteries would be necessary, battery depletion level and when a battery should be changed out, whether or not the flight could be flown at all.
I well remember being provided a destination for a 50+ mile cross country to plan out and present to the examiner. It was technically a beautiful VFR day but had towering cumulus clouds for much of the route of flight. High humidity, and temperatures were expected to rise considerably throughout the day. Could we have made the flight? Yes, but we would have been beaten up badly by moderate to severe turbulence for most of the flight. Due to an onshore flow of moist air that was being blown by a light wind up the slopes of nearby mountains the prospect of encountering T-storms during the flight was pretty high. My suggestion to go somewhere else and save that destination for another day demonstrated an understanding of things that affect flight and reasonable decision making.

3) Demonstrate manual control of the aircraft. Anyone can fly an automated aircraft. Truth is, they really aren't flying one at all, they are simply telling it the direction they want it to go by pushing on a stick. The aircraft is flying itself when in an automated or semi autonomous state and it doesn't need anyone at the sticks to fly well. Make applicants fly in modes like Atti, Non GPS Angle, or Stabilized where GPS provides no directional assist and the aircraft drifts with the wind if the operator fails to allow for wind drift. Demonstrate manual take off and landing, preferable with some level of wind present. Observe how far they elect to fly out to determine if they truly understand what line of sight means.

4) Describe and Demonstrate emergency procedures. If they don't know what to do when chit starts hitting the fan they don't need to be flying. The last thing we need is some guy running around waving his arms around in the air like the kid running out of the forest in Robin Hood, Men in Tights when things start going wrong. People need to know what to do well enough to automatically shift into emergency mode the moment something happens, not fumbling around trying to figure out what to do. Determine if they understand there could be a time the only appropriate action would be one that caused the destruction of their aircraft via an intentional power cut at altitude.

For commercial operators the tasks need to be more demanding, and include additional demonstrations of crew coordination/delegation of tasks, use of VO's, safety briefings, site surveys, descriptions of spectator and crowd control scenarios, effective risk mitigation, use of aeronautical information in mission planning, and accident reporting. It should be demonstrated that a commercial pilot has a far greater understanding of their aircraft and be able to extract maximum performance from the aircraft.
I know I would be in a bit of a bind when it came to a complete understanding of how my H worked. And I've spent a fair bit of time reading old posts and I think others would have a similar problem.
 
You probably understand much better than you give yourself credit for. A few questions for you to answer that might make you feel better as you likely already know the answers to all of them.

Using a general description, how does the baro altimeter function?

What are accelerometers used for?

GPS is used for what?

Can the aircraft be successfully flown and be under full control without benefit of GPS?

The 2.4GHz frequency is used for what"

The 5.8GHz frequency is used for what?

The aircraft uses 4 primary flight controls. Name them.

How is measured altitude presented, above sea level or above ground level?

What is the purpose of Smart Mode?

How does Smart Mode function?

How does Angle Mode differ from Smart Mode?

Using a general description, how does RTH function?

Can RTH activate automatically?

If so, how?

What is the rated voltage of the flight battery?

How many cells does the battery have and how is that represented in labeling?

What is considered to be a safe charge rate for lithium polymer batteries commonly used for multirotors?

What is the minimum safe voltage level of your flight battery?

What is the effective range of the aircraft? (this is a trick question)
 
Thats a very good way to determine basic system comprehension of the Typhoon H. There is more than one question I think could also be labeled as 'trick' ;) but none the less, a Typhoon pilot should think about these things. Well done Pat.
 
Flying a full scale glider is one of two aviation related things I’ve had on my bucket list. The other was flying an open cockpit biplane, which I got lucky and completed.

I had a shot at a ride in a Waco, but life got in the way and I missed out!! And soaring is cool. For me there is not more pure form of flying, manned or model.
 

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