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Question for the wise - E90 for mapping Vs P4p

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Hi to all

i have 2 H480 pro, and this week i bought a 520. Will receive it by the end of next week.

I also have other drones, a Falcom 8, and a P4p.and several others.

Till now, the best drone for mapping (in my fleet) is the P4p, well the Falcon is better, but for the money, for what it does and for the time flight, The P4 is the choice. Even better that the inspire with a X5.

The E90 as the same sensor that the P4p, so the 520 should win the "combat".

But the P4P as a variable aperture and a mechanical shutter witch is better for Mapping (thats why i like it better that a X5 camera).

After a lot of thinking, i came to the conclusion, that you give something, and you receive something. So the H520 will be my main bird for mapping

So my question, how the electronic shutter of the E90 deal with mapping? As anyone have the two systems that can give some input? Can the increase of shutter speed (to plus 500) be an option? Any suggestions to mitigate this handicap?

Thanks for the input
 
Welcome Miguel Angelo

A nuance, the camera of the P4P and the H520 are of similar characteristics but there are differences, they are not equal. That said, you won't have any problem with the E90 to make photogrammetry. As soon as you select the survey mode the values of the E90 are adjusted.

P.S.: what can really be a problem in photogrammetry is the rolling shutter.
 
Yes Arruntus,
the rolling shutter is due the lack of mechanical shutter that the P4P as.
Have to do a little "dig up" in Agisoft photoscan/Metashape to find the settings to correct the rolling shutter.
 
Yes Arruntus,
the rolling shutter is due the lack of mechanical shutter that the P4P as.
Have to do a little "dig up" in Agisoft photoscan/Metashape to find the settings to correct the rolling shutter.

Normally in high level software like Pix4D or Photoscan they already have profiles of the most used cameras. Just select it and all corrections are applied. The second option is to do several processing, the more you do with the same camera, automatically identifies it and corrects more and more parameters creating an appropriate profile for it each time you process, so does Pix4D.
 
I have never had any issues using the E90 camera, I also fly at no more than 7 mph. ( hover and stop was taking too long and killing the batteries). Pix 4D has our camera parameters wrong by default in the software and it needs to be corrected before processing it needs to be changed to linear rolling shutter
 
I have never had any issues using the E90 camera, I also fly at no more than 7 mph. ( hover and stop was taking too long and killing the batteries). Pix 4D has our camera parameters wrong by default in the software and it needs to be corrected before processing it needs to be changed to linear rolling shutter

I was talking to the people at Pix4D about it and they told me they were going to get a fix in the next update. But they still have problems because Yuneec took out cameras, some with distortion, some without distortion, and then added the distortion correction option. And even if it's the same model, Pix4D won't be able to distinguish between the different options. So it's up to us to activate the parameter when we see in the first step that it gives us an error of more than 5%. Knowing how to correct it, I think we have no choice. At least we have a solution ?
 
Great point I forgot that there are currently 3 ( Or so I heard) versions of the same camera and all are slightly different.. I fly with no lens correction in my camera settings. The changes is the reason why polar pro stopped making filters for the E90 they changed the threads ) I have the earliest possible model of the E90.
 
Are there any methods to positively identify the 3 E90 model versions? By serial number range, full model - sub model number, distinguishable physical differences? If box is still available, anything on box identify the models?

@Miguel Angelo, your 1st post. P4P Camera mechanical shutter vs Inspire 1 X5, that is disappointing the I1 didn’t have an X4S equivalent. The Inspire 2 or more specific, the Matrice M210 with X4S is a preferred package with several Geo or Terrain teams for the mechanical shutter.

The H520 is assumed much more stable than P4P in addition to the cameras. The P4P is extremely popular for mapping, have you experienced any stability issues with the P4P? Is that a factor to move to the H520? Curious on platform change if you’re producing with positive results now.
 
The H520 is assumed much more stable than P4P in addition to the cameras. The P4P is extremely popular for mapping, have you experienced any stability issues with the P4P? Is that a factor to move to the H520? Curious on platform change if you’re producing with positive results now.

I have moved to the H520 mainly for 2 reasons:
The first its not a really problem, but if you have a professional buisness, the Phantom 4p is like the neighbor's drone, and with the H520, you state that you are in business.
The second reason is i do like hexas, they give me some rest of mind in case of a motor failure.

The P4p it handles the wind. if its too windy, you should not fly eaven the matrice....

But i have a friend that flyes a Inspire 2 with a S5, and i prefer the P4p. Best results, best portability, way more cheaper.
 
Hopefully theP4P will tolerate more wind than an I2 as the I2 has a wind earning that displays as wind speed approaches 20mph.

Having flown the MP1, MP2, P3P, I1 and I2 I can say that none of them can handle as much wind as even the original Typhoon H. The P3P is very intolerant of wind while the I2 does the best among the models I’ve flown. I have not flown the P4P so have no comparative opinions with that one.
 
The H520 with the wind, you won't have a problem at all. It is one thing to see it in the videos of the manufacturers or collaborators, that if it breaks give them another, and another thing is to try it yourself. I can assure you that with winds of 50 kmh and gusts of more, he fights like a champion. To see him inclined to the maximum? I don't remember if the maximum is 30 degrees, against the wind, all the time the motors practically at maximum performance, and not to move of the site is a spectacle. That is very scary ? ? ? but is a spectacle ?
 
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That's one of the videos I had in my head, when I saw it, before leaving the H520, I was amazed. Then I tried it with my own drone, and first little by little, you cheer up, you go up and you see it working at full speed ?

It's from what I've said many times, Yuneec has a winning drone in his hands, no doubt about it. Is it a winning drone? Not by a long shot, because in many aspects, some of them basic, he is naked, it's not that he fails, it's that he lacks everything. Let's hope that little by little, (little by little is a way of speaking, it's clear that it's little by little or it's not going to happen), it has all the functionalities that it should have ?
 
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Speaking of wind:

:rolleyes: I had a feeling this one would show up! ;)
That is an I1, the oldest and most basic craft out there. Even if it was an I2, the H520 would still be the newest technology by 1 year. But no disagreement, the Hex dish is probably most stable in winds.

Reguarding the Op's intentions as he indicated if windy not good for accurate terrain mapping, particularly 3D or when high accuracy required.
If you go to expense of higher grade cameras, you loose a good proportion if windy.

For terrain, 3D or high accuracy mapping, none of these in above video are acceptable. Dispite H520 doing better in various ways, it's clearly moving about and stronge vertical movement.

Any of the crafts with even 1/2 the movement in this old video would be considered undesired for accuracy.

As for a P4P, have no idea how it behaves In strong wind, althogh several teams on the ocean sailboats teams use P4P's in extreme high wind apparently successfully... if you've watched any hand launch & catch... it's impressive, almost catching at full speed due to winds and fast movement of sailboats.
 
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The P4P will behave like the P4 you see in the video. Although the firmware influences, what really matters is the shape of the drone or its aerodynamic (closed structure) and most importantly the number of engines. Between 2 well configured drones, a Quad and a Hex, the Quad will never be able to rival the Hex, it is something mechanical, there is no magic. Always talking about drones at the same level.

These conditions of wind, are not advisable to do anything, neither photogrametria, neither video nor anything, are only extreme tests. Although the drone withstands the wind we have to look at the other fundamental component to get good images or videos, the gimbal. And with those winds, few gimbals can withstand it in suitable conditions. They are all the time making corrections which prevents stable shots.
 
IMO the 520 could become a great mapping rig but to do that Yuneec would have to correct failures on their part and catch up with the rest of the world. Until then it will remain more of a “cult” machine.
 
IMO the 520 could become a great mapping rig but to do that Yuneec would have to correct failures on their part and catch up with the rest of the world. Until then it will remain more of a “cult” machine.


What failures on the 520 do you think they need to correct?
 
Some they have already done but first and foremost is producing firmware that works correctly the first and every time. Next is adding Cruise Control. Next would be adding a full photography suite like with the H Plus to justify the higher pricing. Full user access to the FC is another deficiency. Expanding the selection of payloads to provide commercial versatility is another failure. Without those the 520 is a very expensive, quite limited, cheap aircraft.

I can’t understand how they can justify selling the 520 for $4,000.00 when it can only do about 1/3 of what other systems costing less than half as much can do. It’s great for windy days but that’s not enough for the price tag.
 
Fair enough. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.I agree that it seems over priced for what it does. But once you step outside the DJI Universe alternatives tend to be fewer and more expensive.
 
The P4P will behave like the P4 you see in the video. Although the firmware influences, what really matters is the shape of the drone or its aerodynamic (closed structure) and most importantly the number of engines. Between 2 well configured drones, a Quad and a Hex, the Quad will never be able to rival the Hex, it is something mechanical, there is no magic. Always talking about drones at the same level.

These conditions of wind, are not advisable to do anything, neither photogrametria, neither video nor anything, are only extreme tests. Although the drone withstands the wind we have to look at the other fundamental component to get good images or videos, the gimbal. And with those winds, few gimbals can withstand it in suitable conditions. They are all the time making corrections which prevents stable shots.

More as a table of discussion, not argument on video & crafts.
We're assuming FW isn't effective in modifying motor performance, assuming motor/performance similar, assuming ESC performance and electronic response similar specs & design?? The FW & components can have tremendous effect on the craft performance.

No magic, Fully agree in fundamental aerodynamics and mechanical components. Dismissing for a moment physical aerodynamics for simplicity all having similar CoF, D, and various structural similarities. The 6 vs 4 debate is more reliant on the motors & props: performance, pitch, rpm, torque limits, ESC response; assuming all respond similar to sensor signals.

The debate on 4 being less receptive to wind, does that indicate a 6 is less receptive than 8 as well, or 12? Does that also mean shape: 6 flat dish vs Y-dish with push/pull are equal due to number of props regardless to degree of motor arms in circumference, or a X-Oct. Is it the prop points and number of props around the circumference giving Hex command over Quad? A prop point every 60 (*) degrees vs 90 (X), or 120 (Y)? If a Y-Hex is more stable in wind due to physical design (aero & power), then it's not prop points around circumference, it's more the motor/prop performance and sensitivity of electronics at each point.

My viewpoint doesn't accept a flat hex dish as a superior design over a X or Y, 4, 6, 8 propulsion. If so, it'd be utilized often in multiple brand models, particularly by strong players in consumer/ Prosumer market. The small Hex hasn't been left alone in market because Yuneec held a patent on Flat Hex, superior electronics, or secrets. Multiple variables and benifits contribute the whole product. If the answer was flat Hex rules, there would be competitive Hex's... probably better overall designs on the market by now.

If all things being equal, increasing the number of radial thrust points around circumference can improves stability up to the point of other dynamics overpowering the gain: exp H520 Hex.

Can the P4P or an I2 able to perform better in the wind... depends on power & electronic engineering and intended design parameter limitations beyound my access, but my guess is if needed by market, it'd be addressed.

**** Off tangent thought; I've always pondered that if the Hex was the best overall solution why hasn't DJI attacked that market... on the mere side of resources (budget, designers, manufacturing, packaging, and product offerings, electronics, etc.) they could easily take that catagory without designing a whole new model line. The question to me has always been more on the side... why has DJI left Yuneec and it's Hex craft alone... certainly not "fear" to compete! I feel they've left it alone for positive market gain purposes, comparisons, stimulation of brand, and lastly, Yuneec hasn't poised any threat to their market and market direction. Not suggesting Yuneec hasn't had some impressive capable designs, and also not suggesting DJI hasn't kept Yuneec so-called Contained. But UNTIL Recently they haven't even tickled the market share "trending" needle of progress; but the H520, H520G and H-Plus (market disguised H520) have began to get attention and that will/has gotten their attention... which probably indicates the rumor mill may be accurate on a sm Hex. Personally, a little Hex competition may be beneficial in multiple facets; it may stimulate Yuneec to go after additional funds and take an aggressive position in designing, 3rd party cooperation, and marketing to retain their market or possibly improve share.
 
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