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Question: Ideal waypoint editor for H?

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Greetings forum,

I'm a relatively new Typhoon H owner and long time drone pilot looking for some advice on a decent way point editor for the Typhoon H.

My goal is a SMOOTH cinematic experience when capturing video footage, as well as the ability to easily program flight paths from the office prior to flying in the field.

For context, here is my experience thus far:

First started with Eric's CCC editor. Impressive, intuitive and integrates with Google Maps nicely. Well done. However I struggle to create or edit flight patterns. What is represented on CCC editor as Yay/Yam and the intended direction of the H and its camera, is not the direction the H is in flight.

Here is what I did,

I flew a flight and grabbed way points. Saved the CCC file and then re-flew and recorded the flight. Transferred CCC file to PC and opened in CCC editor. See output below. What it shows is not representative of the direction the H was pointing. An inspection of the video supports this.

QR 2016 1027 - North 13.mp4

Note: video starts at Way point B. Way point A is just a staging location.

I also suspect a Yaw/Yam of 562 is strange. Is this value not based on a 360 degree orientation?

Also, editing the orientation and adding way points in CCC editor, looks great on the editor but the orientation is not correct when the created flight is flown. Frustrating as flight time is limited and costly.

Either way, maybe someone who has more knowledge and experience with this application can assist, as I really like the interface. I just can't get it to work correctly.


upload_2016-10-29_11-31-49.png


So I moved on to Flight Planner H.

A similar web based app that has some nice features. Integration with gmail account and ability to save projects to Drive, convenient! Had issues with the interface, non intuitive and buggy. Navigation and programming way points was challenging. Ended up reloading page often to get out of a scroll lock thing with the map underlay. Couldn't "drop" location or way point pins. Tried on Chrome and Firefox.

upload_2016-10-29_11-59-35.png


and then on to Feersum Technologies Flight Center.
Loaded the APK on to the ST16 and wow, this is a sophisticated app. Really nice!!! Powerful!

but I misunderstood and thought it had full PC control. After, joining the ST16 to my WiFi and opening the interface via browser. ****...no flight editor capabilities. Just telemetry files and media. or am I missing something?

A requirement for me is to edit on a PC. It's a bit too frustrating and inefficient to program way points on a tiny tablet screen via touch interface. Keyboard and mouse for editing please.

So that's my story....and my question is what do you guys suggest to create quick clean flight patterns?

Is there another editor out there?

thanks and sorry for the long post, hope it makes sense.

-ZenLife
 
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and then on to Feersum Technologies Flight Center.
Loaded the APK on to the ST16 and wow, this is a sophisticated app. Really nice!!! Powerful!

but I misunderstood and thought it had full PC control. After, joining the ST16 to my WiFi and opening the interface via browser. ****...no flight editor capabilities. Just telemetry files and media. or am I missing something?

A requirement for me is to edit on a PC. It's a bit too frustrating and inefficient to program way points on a tiny tablet screen via touch interface. Keyboard and mouse for editing please.

-ZenLife
Hi there, glad you like Flight Center as it's my app :)

I'm afraid the flight editor doesn't work on the PC, but on the ST-16 (tap the Mission tab and then 'Create Mission'). It makes it simple to get routes into the Typhoon, but I can appreciate that the screen is a bit smaller. I hope it makes up for it with accurate estimation of the flight path and the camera view. The next release should support other Android devices so you can swap between the ST-16 and a full tablet if you have one.
 
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Thanks for the reply Tuna. Again, really nice app and yes, I can see value in the next release allowing for multiple devices, like a larger tablet.

I'll keep playing with it for now on the ST16. I can see it being useful for in the field flight adjustments as well.

So here's my question, how do I create a mission based on an existing CCC flight. The CableCam tab shows the CCC data files. Cool. They load and can be virtually flown in Flight Center. Neat.

But how do I edit it? Forgive me if I'm missing it, but creating a New Mission on the Mission tab prompts for:

current position (not enabled)
Last telemetry data
search by name

can't seem to get a mission created.
 
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I'm not entirely clear on what you're querying. However, using Eric's programme, the green arrow on the waypoint shows the direction the H is facing. The grey cone shows the camera yaw angle. You can amend the Yaw and Yam (camera yaw) values in the programme to whatever you want and save them. I suggest you match the values to avoid unnecessary complication. The H will fly from waypoint to waypoint with the camera pointed in the direction you programmed. Smooth video is readily achievable:).
 
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I'm not entirely clear on what you're querying. However, using Eric's programme, the green arrow on the waypoint shows the direction the H is facing. The grey cone shows the camera yaw angle. You can amend the Yaw and Yam (camera yaw) values in the programme to whatever you want and save them. I suggest you match the values to avoid unnecessary complication. The H will fly from waypoint to waypoint with the camera pointed in the direction you programmed. Smooth video is readily achievable:).
Hey Graham, what you explain makes perfect sense and exactly what I thought CCC editor would make the H do. But sadly its not. When I actually fly the CCC editor mission that looks like the H should be pointed at say 270 degrees, indicated by the arrow and the cone, it's not.

A better representation of the disconnect between the CCC editor representation and the actual H flight is shown by downloading the CCC editor file from the ST16 and viewing it in CCC editor. What the H does when you fly a CCC mission (shown by the flight video) and what CCC editor says it does (shown by the screenshot) and not aligned.

GPS Positioning is correct. Camera and H orientation are not.

Sorry if I didn't explain clearly. I suspect its an issue with the Yam/Yaw value. But I don't know. Why is this value more than 360 degrees? Seems incorrect.
 
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Thanks for the reply Tuna. Again, really nice app and yes, I can see value in the next release allowing for multiple devices, like a larger tablet.

I'll keep playing with it for now on the ST16. I can see it being useful for in the field flight adjustments as well.

So here's my question, how do I create a mission based on an existing CCC flight. The CableCam tab shows the CCC data files. Cool. They load and can be virtually flown in Flight Center. Neat.

But how do I edit it? Forgive me if I'm missing it, but creating a New Mission on the Mission tab prompts for:

current position (not enabled)
Last telemetry data
search by name

can't seem to get a mission created.
Yes, at present you can't edit an existing CCC route (it doesn't contain quite as much information as I store for a mission - that helps me sort out things like takeoff point and map locations). At some point I'll add an 'import' function to turn an existing CCC route into a mission so you can edit it. For now you need to create a new mission, add/edit the points you need and then export it to a CCC route that the H can fly.
 
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The only reason I can think of the camera not being exactly at the programmed yam setting at a waypoint is when its transiting between waypoints having markedly different yam values. Perhaps even then, the waypoints would have to be close together and yours aren't. If you haven't done it already, I suggest you amend all the yam and yaw values to those you want using Eric's programme and see how that flies.

The H has a gimbal that can rotate without limits, unlike others I understand, that need to be 'unwound'. Imagine that you are at 270 degrees and your next yam is at 20. 'Normal' gimbals need to counter-rotate to get to 20, but the H gimbal can go the short way round.

Now, when you flew to record the CCC, was the H yawed to to face the subject or was the camera yawed with the ST16 Pan controls? I think using the pan controls could cause the H to film in an unexpected direction when the H subsequently flies the route and yaws to face the subject. Have a look at the waypoint values in Eric's programme, what do you think?
Amended in response to Tuna's explantion below.
 
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The H has a gimbal that can rotate without limits, unlike others I understand, that need to be 'unwound'. Angles in the first rotation are measured on a 360 circle. Imagine that you are at 270 degrees and your next yam is at 20. 'Normal' gimbals need to counter-rotate to get to 20, but the H gimbal can go the short way round, so passing 360. Angles in the first rotation are up to 360, in the second rotation up to 720 etc. I'm thinking on my feet, but this doesn't seem unreasonable.
The Yaw and Yam values (drone bearing and gimbal bearing) aren't quite as you'd expect. In the current autopilot, the Yam is ignored - effectively the camera is locked straight ahead and the drone yaw determines which direction is filmed. Yaw values are treated as though they go from -180 to 180. Angles up to 179 degrees are as you'd expect. Angles below 0 (i.e. 0 to -180) have 660 added to them. When the camera turns, it always turns through the smallest part of the circle.
 
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Interesting. I can see 'camera yaw' is easier to control with that axis fixed and the H rotating, but why 660? Is there a text describing the design?
 
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Yes, at present you can't edit an existing CCC route (it doesn't contain quite as much information as I store for a mission - that helps me sort out things like takeoff point and map locations). At some point I'll add an 'import' function to turn an existing CCC route into a mission so you can edit it. For now you need to create a new mission, add/edit the points you need and then export it to a CCC route that the H can fly.
Understood. Thanks for the reply and directions. If it wasn't for this tiny screen and thumb sticks in the way....grrrrrr.... kidding. Great app. Look forward to its development.
 
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Yaw values are treated as though they go from -180 to 180. Angles up to 179 degrees are as you'd expect. Angles below 0 (i.e. 0 to -180) have 660 added to them. When the camera turns, it always turns through the smallest part of the circle.
Interesting. I'm not seeing the logic in this method of quantifying a bearing, any thoughts?

but now I'm intrigued, if I want the camera pointed due West, or 270 deg. What would the CCC Yam/Yaw value be?
 
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Interesting. I'm not seeing the logic in this method of quantifying a bearing, any thoughts?

but now I'm intrigued, if I want the camera pointed due West, or 270 deg. What would the CCC Yam/Yaw value be?
570 (ie. -90 + 660).

I have no idea what the logic is, though I assumed it made it easier for them when running CCC in some way. It has taken a lot of experimental flights to figure out the oddities of the CCC behaviour - and I've still got some blanks to fill in :)
 
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570 (ie. -90 + 660).

I have no idea what the logic is, though I assumed it made it easier for them when running CCC in some way. It has taken a lot of experimental flights to figure out the oddities of the CCC behaviour - and I've still got some blanks to fill in :)
Curiouser and curiouser. I've flown and then amended quite a few CCC routes using Eric's programme and had no trouble getting the camera to face they way I'd planned using compass notation, i.e. 270 faces west.
Tuna, would it be odd for the H to be able to recognise both your 660 and normal compass degrees? No doubt you've delved into this further than I have, but if there's anyway I can help, I'd be keen to do so, especially if it involves flying.:)
 
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Curiouser and curiouser. I've flown and then amended quite a few CCC routes using Eric's programme and had no trouble getting the camera to face they way I'd planned using compass notation, i.e. 270 faces west.
Tuna, would it be odd for the H to be able to recognise both your 660 and normal compass degrees? No doubt you've delved into this further than I have, but if there's anyway I can help, I'd be keen to do so, especially if it involves flying.:)
I suspect that the H may cope with values between 180 and 360, but it never creates CCC routes itself with those values, so I follow that behaviour in my editor. It's possible that if you don't then CCC playback will not be predictable - in particular, the direction it turns to get from one waypoint yaw to the next.

Of course, what you show to the user - and what Eric allows you to input into his program - may be whatever the editor software likes, so all this 'under the hood' stuff should be invisible to anyone using the editor. I assume that if you type -90 or 270 into Erics' software, it does the appropriate thing when creating the actual CCC file.
 
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570 (ie. -90 + 660).

I have no idea what the logic is, though I assumed it made it easier for them when running CCC in some way. It has taken a lot of experimental flights to figure out the oddities of the CCC behaviour - and I've still got some blanks to fill in :)
ok...that's the math. So if I'm understanding this correctly, a CCC file that has a Yaw value of 570 will point the H due West. wow....confusing.
 
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Curiouser and curiouser. I've flown and then amended quite a few CCC routes using Eric's programme and had no trouble getting the camera to face they way I'd planned using compass notation, i.e. 270 faces west.
I've also edited several CCC routes using Eric CCC editor and sadly I am not getting the flight results as expected or represented by the software. Hence my post asking you guys for another one.

and after Tuna's fantastic explanation of Yuneec's illogical and incomprehensibly confusing way of calculating Yaw/Yam headings for the H , I'm realizing why I'm having issues and it may just be in all the West facing directions. uuughh Yuneec. So much potential. Such poor execution.

Won't speculate on Eric's CCC editor algorithm "under the hood" and how it calculates and then outputs Yaw value. Hopefully he can chime in.
 
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I've created and flown dozens of missions with Eric's ccc Editor so I am well familiar with the inability to have the nose of the H fly a route directionally while the camera points another... I. E., the direction of the nose of the H is always locked with the Yam. Ultimately, I've learned to work around this by having an extra waypoint hold. that said, I've been able to achieve the results of pretty much anything I've set out to accomplish.

However, I do hope Eric can update his editor to all separate yaw and yam in the future. It would greatly simplify designing ccc missions.
 
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I've created and flown dozens of missions with Eric's ccc Editor so I am well familiar with the inability to have the nose of the H fly a route directionally while the camera points another... I. E., the direction of the nose of the H is always locked with the Yam. Ultimately, I've learned to work around this by having an extra waypoint hold. that said, I've been able to achieve the results of pretty much anything I've set out to accomplish.

However, I do hope Eric can update his editor to all separate yaw and yam in the future. It would greatly simplify designing ccc missions.
hey Jonas, The issue isn't the inability to control camera/gimbal Yam. My understanding is, this is due to the inability of Yuneec's as all 3rd party H way point editors fall to the same inability. Locking the aircraft Yaw with the Gimbal Yam is just the way it is until Yuneec rewrites autopilot and/or opens up the API. So we work around that, as you mentioned.

This is issue is with the Yaw (and Yam as they are the same for now) and what CCC Editor says the H will be oriented; versus which direction it actually is during flight. Sorry if I did not explain this well.
 

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