Why The H Plus is STILL Relevant

[Ty Pilot]

I was just thinking . . . . . .


So as some of you know, I have been a big fan of the Typhoon and have always considered the H Plus on a mountain peak (in terms of class) with very few contenders. I have had my Plus for almost three and a half years now, and still love what it (and in particular the C23), can do. I have long thought that this 'peak' will stand for a long time and here is why.

Consumer drones for the most part, have always been under the 2,000 dollar mark. The cameras (and in particular - the sensor) has been a driving force since final image quality has been and still is - a major selling point. For years, most drones carried a 1/2.5" sensor producing a 12 mega pixel image, such as a standard Typhoon H. Drones like the the Phantom 4 and H Plus brought to bear a 1" sensor producing a 20 megapixel image. But the sensor is only one part of the equation. If we think of the sensor as an engine (producing the image) then we have to keep in mind that the engine needs a transmission. All the data produced must be 'written' to the card - or processed. This is the flip side of the bigger sensor race.

As sensors get bigger they require massive processing power and all of this equates to - price. I have long thought that the 1" sensor will remain at the top of the consumer market not only because the initial drone price is high but the further process (editing) requires ever larger and more powerful computers. Working with 8 bit - 4K video from a 1/2.5" sensor is one thing, working with 10 bit - 4K ProRes is another animal.

Okay, to my point. About a year and a half ago I got a Mavic 2 Pro with a 1" sensor and specs very close to that of an H Plus because I needed a compact carry drone at times. At the time of that Purchase, the M2P was about 1,450 bucks for the standard kit with one battery, while the H Plus came with two (2) batteries and the controller WITH a screen for just under 1,900 bucks. Mavic's require YOU supply the screen so in terms of price they WERE pretty similar.

That was then but look at NOW. As of today, you can pick up an H Plus or an H3 for right around 2,100 dollars. However, the price for a Mavic 2 Pro have nearly DOUBLED to almost 2,800 Bucks! On the flip side, it looks like all the rumors of the Mavic3's release date and PRICE are coalescing, and by that I mean it looks for certain that in a few days the Mavic 3 will be released and many perspective customers are going to have their head's explode. It will be well over 2 -3 grand for the basic kit and upwards of 4 - 5 grand for their 'cinema' version!

CONCLUSION

The Peak of the 2,000 dollar consumer drone market will not change. You can buy cheaper drones that are pretty good, but as far as image quality for that price, there is nothing beyond except the next mountain; (call it Pros Peak or Mortgage the House Mountain) but the climb up that mountain is a steep and expensive one. For me, the imagery that comes from My Plus is incredible, but to take the next step to get to image quality that is noticeably or considerably higher, is not worth the cost it would take to get there, but that is just me. I can shoot aerial video that is on par with even my 4/3rds Panasonic GH5 and that says a lot.

 

[DCH]

Thanks @Ty Pilot for pointing out the enduring relevance of the H Plus. It is a class act and a fantastic piece of kit, ...I was going to add for the price, but then I realized all I need is a period! Period!

 

[Ty Pilot]

Thanks @Ty Pilot for pointing out the enduring relevance of the H Plus. It is a class act and a fantastic piece of kit, ...I was going to add for the price, but then I realized all I need is a period! Period!

You bet. I just so many people that are looking for the 'next' or the 'best' new drone and based on what I am seeing the Plus is a really good all around value. Just wish Yuneec was a little more in the game.

 

[Steve Carr]

The H Plus continues to be my "go-to" flyer. It's smooth, reliable and a lot quieter than most others I see buzzing around. Oh, and it handles wind so much better than anything else I've tried. I see no reason to spend thousands more for video and photos that won't be any better than I get now.

 

[PaulEden]

What you say is pretty much the same as the result of my research before I bought my H Plus.
I really only miss a thermal camera and the wand.

 

[PaulEden]

Just wish Yuneec was a little more in the game.

Yep

 

[Mickeyboo]

Not sure how you've calculated your prices...although I fly both DJI and Yuneec I much prefer DJI. As someone pointed out about a year or more ago on this forum the Plus Batteries are pillowing garbage. Three have died on me. While all the ones from earlier Yuneec and DJI drones I own still work perfectly as well as third party batteries I purchased for earlier Yuneecs. A drone which flies further and is cheaper and gives you longer flight times than the Plus would be the DJI Air 2 S. That is a drone which for whatever reason you forgot to mention. I flew it in Germany to do a series of castles the sensor and video quality match and in some ways beat the Plus and Mavic Pro 2 in side by side tests I've done. I've also used it for flying over prairie burns for the department of Natural Resources here in Wisconsin. It is tiny and very stable in high wind. I really only fly my Plus when I may have a conflict regarding where I want to fly I always bring it along for that reason and that reason only. Correct if I'm wrong but there has been no updating of firmware that I know of for the Plus either. Both one of the people above who commented on the Plus and I had mysterious crashes with our Plus models as have others..in the flight record it was clearly a Yuneec issue and they replaced it. That happened while I was shooting another prairie burn and the way it fell like a stone could have injured someone on the ground had it hit them. A few months later the people who did the service on that drone were shuttered in part due to Yuneec discontinuing them as a designated service provider. I've dealt with Yuneec on many levels with management etc. not particularly impressed with any of them. I've owned 4 or 5 DJI drones and have never had to send one in for service (which is a good thing because they're horrible like Yuneec). So I guess it's different strokes for different folks but as someone who flies often I just can't reach the same conclusions as Ty Pilot...by the way if you do this professionally reliability trumps price every time anyway. I can't argue that Plus is still relevant but I can certainly argue that it's not reliable. This winter when I do a shoot of the largest buffalo herd in North America Ithe H-Plus will probably be sitting in the car while I'm flying something else perhaps it will have fallen asleep on yet another pillowing battery. www.michaelkienitz.com

 

[Ty Pilot]

Well it's good to see you back on the forum @Mickeyboo hope all is well. Lot to answer so here it goes.

Not sure how you've calculated your prices...although I fly both DJI and Yuneec I much prefer DJI.

Which prices? Mavic Pro 2 now or Mavic 3? The H Plus price - that is what they are selling for now. As of the day I wrote the first post in this thread the price for a new MP2 was at 2,800.00 (see pic) and as for the price for the forth coming Mavic 3? There are enough sources that I gave the range I did. Not to mention the fact that DJI is selling the now discontinued MP2 at never seen before prices and there.

As someone pointed out about a year or more ago on this forum the Plus Batteries are pillowing garbage. Three have died on me. While all the ones from earlier Yuneec and DJI drones I own still work perfectly as well as third party batteries I purchased for earlier Yuneec's.

I remember what happed to you and some others so I don't blame you for feeling as you do but my Plus has been solid and I am flying on 3.5 year old batteries albeit at about 65% of their original duration.

A drone which flies further and is cheaper and gives you longer flight times than the Plus would be the DJI Air 2 S. That is a drone which for whatever reason you forgot to mention. I flew it in Germany to do a series of castles the sensor and video quality match and in some ways beat the Plus and Mavic Pro 2 in side by side tests I've done. I've also used it for flying over prairie burns for the department of Natural Resources here in Wisconsin. It is tiny and very stable in high wind.

I was really just focusing on the H Plus and it's closest competitor - the MP2. The Air 2S has specs very close to the MP2 but has a fixed aperture, so while it is a very strong contender it does not (in my estimation) eclipse the H Plus or M2P - again I did mention the imagery as the strong point in my original post. If we want to start adding in the other strong points such as range of the Air 2S and so forth, then I would mention the H Plus's 360 camera, retractable gear, team mode, no geo-zones (which is really getting a lot of negativity from faithful DJI flyers) and others. I guess at that point it really comes down to personal preference

Correct if I'm wrong but there has been no updating of firmware that I know of for the Plus either.

Nope, you're correct and I happy with that.

Both of the people above who commented on the Plus and I had mysterious crashes with our Plus models as have others..in the flight record it was clearly a Yuneec issue and they replaced it. That happened while I was shooting another prairie burn and the way it fell like a stone could have injured someone on the ground had it hit them. A few months later the people who did the service on that drone were shuttered in part due to Yuneec discontinuing them as a designated service provider. I've dealt with Yuneec on many levels with management etc. not particularly impressed with any of them. I've owned 4 or 5 DJI drones and have never had to send one in for service (which is a good thing because they're horrible like Yuneec).

I am on the Mavic forum as much as I ever was on this forum and I can tell you that DJI has a proportional number of aircraft losses across due to manufacturing defects that is equal to any other. Again I realize that once a product fails you, it is hard to regain trust, but failure of some amount is normal across ALL drone brands. I've owned two DJI drones (no significant problems) and two Yuneec drones also with no significant problems - knock on wood.

So I guess it's different strokes for different folks but as someone who flies often I just can't reach the same conclusions as Ty Pilot...by the way if you do this professionally reliability trumps price every time anyway. I can't argue that Plus is still relevant but I can certainly argue that it's not reliable. This winter when I do a shoot of the largest buffalo herd in North America Ithe H-Plus will probably be sitting in the car while I'm flying something else perhaps it will have fallen asleep on yet another pillowing battery. www.michaelkienitz.com

I do fly often and I do fly professional (part time), and agree that reliability is everything, but thats what I am saying - my experience with Yuneec and the Plus - is, and has been - nothing but reliable. My original post is really my perspective of past experience and I get that others may have a different view and that is fine.

 

[Ty Pilot]

And just to follow up on the prices we talked about . . . the Mavic 3 is out now.

Basic kit -one battery - basic controller (no screen) = 2,200.00 US
Fly More Kit - 3 batteries - and a few other items = 3,000.00 US
Mavic 3 Cinema w/ Smart Controller = 5,000.00 US
Smart Controller by itself to fly Mavic 3 =1,200.00 US

Time to buy a few more H Plus batteries.

 

[PaulEden]

Early reports are that the Mavic 3 is too short on features to justify the price tag.
I've always thought the pro Controller is particularly poor value compared to the one that comes with the H

 

[Ty Pilot]

Yeah the M3 uses a new and different SC, while the first Smart Control that is used for the MP2 is not compatible with theM3, and is known to have glitches. I would stay away from both of them at all costs. I think the problem most M3 users will find (and I eluded to this in the original post), is that those bigger resolutions will come at a high price in terms of file size. One guy has already found that a minute of the 10 bit Pro Res footage is eleven (11) Gigs! So they should plan on getting a new computer while they're at it.

 

[Steve Carr]

"Mavic 3 is not yet compatible with any mapping software, including DJI’s and DroneDeploy’s."
"the new firmware update for the Mavic 3 wont be till January to make the drone fully functional"

 

[Mickeyboo]

For $1395 you can get the Mavic Air 2S it has more features than what they've just introduced on their latest but not greatest offering. The Air 2S is first to use Ocusync 3.0 which gives you greater range (stronger signal) and is what the expensive ones just introduced also have. I flew my Yuneec H+ yesterday and enjoyed it but on what the controller said was a 99% charged battery I got 6 minutes before it reached 39%. I can get 25 to 28 minutes on the Air 2S.

Another feature with this drone is that you can shoot both horizontal and vertical photos. Attached is a sample I shot in Germany a few months ago. Ty Pilot thought that the fact it had a fixed aperture (2.8) was significant but as you can see and most who fly drones know and understand that because of the subjects distance from the camera an adjustable aperture for greater depth of field is not needed. It is useful for adjusting exposure on the fly which can also be done with filters but that of course requires landing if the filter needs to be changed. Depth of field via aperture is rarely if ever needed because of the distance subject is from camera and the wide angle nature of most drone lenses. I did enjoy flying my H+ yesterday but the battery issue is something people should consider....batteries are also becoming scarce for the H+....I've just ordered 4 more today from a few different sources and they are 3rd party not Yuneec....I figure I've had such bad luck with their's I'll try other manufacturers.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Ty Pilot thought that the fact it had a fixed aperture (2.8) was significant but as you can see and most who fly drones know and understand that because of the subjects distance from the camera an adjustable aperture for greater depth of field is not needed.

I never mentioned having a narrow depth of field as being achievable in a drone at distance or otherwise, in fact I never said the words 'depth of field' anywhere. I simply stated that the Air 2S did not have an adjustable aperture as does it's stablemate - the M2P. Here is what I said:

I was really just focusing on the H Plus and it's closest competitor - the MP2. The Air 2S has specs very close to the MP2 but has a fixed aperture, so while it is a very strong contender it does not (in my estimation) eclipse the H Plus or M2P - again I did mention the imagery as the strong point in my original post.

In regards to an adjustable aperture you said:

. . . . It is useful for adjusting exposure on the fly which can also be done with filters but that of course requires landing if the filter needs to be changed.

Bingo! So an adjustable aperture does have it's uses beyond creating a narrow depth of field but I am sure; most who fly drones know and understand that.

I am not saying that the Air 2S is not a great drone, in fact if I were just now looking to get a compact drone - that IS the one I would get to compliment the Plus as the Mavic 2 is no longer in production.

My original post was just to give perspective on where the drone market is today in relation to a few years ago, and that while there has been major advancement in areas like distance and flight times and other refinements like . . . adjustable aperture - a drone like an H Plus (fixed aperture) is still a pretty good contender.

 

[Mickeyboo]

I never mentioned having a narrow depth of field as being achievable in a drone at distance or otherwise, in fact I never said the words 'depth of field' anywhere. I simply stated that the Air 2S did not have an adjustable aperture as does it's stablemate - the M2P. Here is what I said:



In regards to an adjustable aperture you said:

Bingo! So an adjustable aperture does have it's uses beyond creating a narrow depth of field but I am sure; most who fly drones know and understand that.

I am not saying that the Air 2S is not a great drone, in fact if I were just now looking to get a compact drone - that IS the one I would get to compliment the Plus as the Mavic 2 is no longer in production.

My original post was just to give perspective on where the drone market is today in relation to a few years ago, and that while there has been major advancement in areas like distance and flight times and other refinements like . . . adjustable aperture - a drone like an H Plus (fixed aperture) is still a pretty good contender.

Let's split hairs..."narrow depth of field" which you state and I understand what you're trying to say is more correctly referred to as "shallow depth of field" since narrow refers to width and shallow refers to depth...now that the hair splitting is done...I think we really agree that a variety of drones will meet our needs for a variety of reasons...something we really ought to start pondering is the fact that we will soon have to be emitting an identifiable signal from our H+ to fly FAA licensed...I wonder who will provide the H+ with that sort of capability I would be surprised if it's Yuneec thus we will be in the hands of third party vendors for a solution. It is interesting to note (at least for me) that this capability is already built into Air 2S. As for DJI Mavic Pro 3 the following will not be available for at least 2 months: Timelapse photography, MasterShots. ActiveTrack and Hyperlapse. One-click short film will be online 2 months after release. I have no interest in their latest and most expensive offering. I'll post results once I get the new third party H+ batteries. for me the weakest link of H+ is their batteries. I will examine cell by cell how the discharging and charging is and what kind of airtime I get and post some results.

 

[Ty Pilot]

LOL yes, shallow DOF, hair-splitting welcomed

...I think we really agree that a variety of drones will meet our needs for a variety of reasons...something we really ought to start pondering is the fact that we will soon have to be emitting an identifiable signal from our H+ to fly FAA licensed...I wonder who will provide the H+ with that sort of capability I would be surprised if it's Yuneec thus we will be in the hands of third party vendors for a solution. It is interesting to note (at least for me) that this capability is already built into Air 2S. As for DJI Mavic Pro 3 the following will not be available for at least 2 months: Timelapse photography, MasterShots. ActiveTrack and Hyperlapse. One-click short film will be online 2 months after release. I have no interest in their latest and most expensive offering. I'll post results once I get the new third party H+ batteries. for me the weakest link of H+ is their batteries. I will examine cell by cell how the discharging and charging is and what kind of airtime I get and post some results.

I think we do agree on the fact that a variety of drones will still get the job done. I still have hope that there will be aftermarket solutions for RID on non-DJI drones and this is one reason I am holding off of a new drone for now. Time will tell.

Yeah I find it very odd that the one thing we thought was a Yuneec specialty - rolling out a product before it's ready for 'prime time', is a new trick DJI has learned Lot of DJI faithful are not taking it well. But I do believe when they get the M3 all ironed out it will be 'all that and a bag of chips' as the kids say. But like you, I have no interest (or need) for the M3.

I agree that the H-Plus batteries are crap - great at first, but a much shorter life span than the standard LiPo's. There are a lot of RC car guys that have done extensive testing of LiHV packs and most agree that for value - LiPo's are still better over the long haul.

You mention, 3rd party plus batteries - which ones and where?

 

[Mickeyboo]

LOL yes, shallow DOF, hair-splitting welcomed


I think we do agree on the fact that a variety of drones will still get the job done. I still have hope that there will be aftermarket solutions for RID on non-DJI drones and this is one reason I am holding off of a new drone for now. Time will tell.

Yeah I find it very odd that the one thing we thought was a Yuneec specialty - rolling out a product before it's ready for 'prime time', is a new trick DJI has learned Lot of DJI faithful are not taking it well. But I do believe when they get the M3 all ironed out it will be 'all that and a bag of chips' as the kids say. But like you, I have no interest (or need) for the M3.

I agree that the H-Plus batteries are crap - great at first, but a much shorter life span than the standard LiPo's. There are a lot of RC car guys that have done extensive testing of LiHV packs and most agree that for value - LiPo's are still better over the long haul.

You mention, 3rd party plus batteries - which ones and where?

I ordered gif-power batteries but I guess the jury is still out on them one person here said they were not so good in the past so I don't know if that means they are better now or not but I'll let know what I think when I get them. Yes DJI is not playing with a full deck...did you read about the millions they lost because their buyers were cutting inside kickbacks with their manufacturing materials suppliers? I bought one of their products recently and the people who I was asking questions of at DJI not only couldn't answer my question but they didn't even know such a product existed. I own their highest end camera stabilizer and the software for that is a mess..I should have those batteries soon I'll let you know what I think. Stay Well Lad

 

[Mickeyboo]

Ty Pilot, I 've told you this before but your CCC How to Video is for me the best thing ever posted on this forum in every way imaginable!!! Thanks for that so much
I may use that in South Dakota in December for my Buffalo project....

 

[jcommstudios]

I was just thinking . . . . . .


So as some of you know, I have been a big fan of the Typhoon an have always considered the H Plus on a mountain peak (in terms of class) with very few contenders. I have had my Plus for almost three and a half years now, and still love what it (and in particular the C23), can do. I have long thought that this 'peak' will stand for a long time and here is why.

Consumer drones for the most part, have always been under the 2,000 dollar mark. The cameras (and in particular - the sensor) has been a driving force since final image quality has been and still is - a major selling point. For years, most drones carried a 1/2.5" sensor producing a 12 mega pixel image, such as a standard Typhoon H. Drones like the the Phantom 4 and H Plus brought to bear a 1" sensor producing a 20 megapixel image. But the sensor is only one part of the equation. If we think of the sensor as an engine (producing the image) then we have to keep in mind that the engine needs a transmission. All the data produced must be 'written' to the card - or processed. This is the flip side of the bigger sensor race.

As sensors get bigger they require massive processing power and all of this equates to - price. I have long thought that the 1" sensor will remain at the top of the consumer market not only because the initial drone price is high but the further process (editing) requires ever larger and more powerful computers. Working with 8 bit - 4K video from a 1/2.5" sensor is one thing, working with 10 bit - 4K ProRes is another animal.

Okay, to my point. About a year and a half ago I got a Mavic 2 Pro with a 1" sensor and specs very close to that of an H Plus because I needed a compact carry drone at times. At the time of that Purchase, the M2P was about 1,450 bucks for the standard kit with one battery, while the H Plus came with two (2) batteries and the controller WITH a screen for just under 1,900 bucks. Mavic's require YOU supply the screen so in terms of price they WERE pretty similar.

That was then but look at NOW. As of today, you can pick up an H Plus or an H3 for right around 2,100 dollars. However, the price for a Mavic 2 Pro have nearly DOUBLED to almost 2,800 Bucks! On the flip side, it looks like all the rumors of the Mavic3's release date and PRICE are coalescing, and by that I mean it looks for certain that in a few days the Mavic 3 will be released and many perspective customers are going to have their head's explode. It will be well over 2 -3 grand for the basic kit and upwards of 4 - 5 grand for their 'cinema' version!

CONCLUSION

The Peak of the 2,000 dollar consumer drone market will not change. You can buy cheaper drones that are pretty good, but as far as image quality for that price, there is nothing beyond except the next mountain; (call it Pros Peak or Mortgage the House Mountain) but the climb up that mountain is a steep and expensive one. For me, the imagery that comes from My Plus is incredible, but to take the next step to get to image quality that is noticeably or considerably higher, is not worth the cost it would take to get there, but that is just me. I can shoot aerial video that is on par with even my 4/3rds Panasonic GH5 and that says a lot.

@Ty Pilot I have to agree the H Plus is still very relevant. I picked up and EVO 1 when they first came out after flying the H480. I had a lens mod done on the CGO3+ with a Peau 3.97. I have wanted to upgrade to a 1" sensor and was considering the EVO 2. Just for fun I fired up the H480 and shot some video with it a few weeks ago. I forgot how well it flies. After looking at the EVO 2 with a 3 battery bundle and their "smart controller" I would have been in at over $3K with a company that is notorious for abandoning prior models, which they have basically done with the EVO1 and the X-Star. I just picked up a NEW H Plus, DY5 and an extra battery (3 total) for $1,900.00.
I generally use my drone footage as scenes in corporate productions so long flight time is not an issue. Usually shoot as a dolly or crane emulation or establishing shot / and fly and shoot just for fun. Saved myself over $1K and am back on team Yuneec! The 4K video with the H Plus is absolutely beautiful and the drone flies like no other in its price range. Yuneec is back in SoCal and delivery to me was 2 days to NorCal.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Thats great to hear @jcommstudios congrats on the new bird.