“ We don’t want no smart batteries”!!

AH-1G · Feb 22, 2019

Flying eyeball said:
Just saying ,Simplicity is genius & safer. Does anybody know why the Russians still use radio tubes in their modern fighter jets ?

Which fighters?

Flying eyeball · Feb 22, 2019

AH-1G said:
Which fighters?

That is classified comrade .

AH-1G · Feb 22, 2019

Flying eyeball said:
That is classified comrade .

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25's have not been in front line fighter service in any National Air Force since 2006.

Vacuum tubed early radar systems were replaced by electronic versions in the mid-1990's. While it is true, early generation vacuum tubes can survive an EMP, in 99% of the tests the Russian's carried out, the electronic board the vacuum tubes were attached were fused (short circuited) and severely damaged. The only way to increase the odds of its survival is to turn off any device during the EMP event (and it is not guaranteed to work), which means its weapons sensors are turned off, something pilots are not going to do and how would they know when to turn it off. EMP effects occur 1/1,000,000th of a second after they occur.

Modern aircraft do not use vacuum tube based systems for three primary reasons;

Reliability (poor) and size (huge)
Power consumption (massive) and quality of power (sensitive to any noise)
Accuracy (timing) is 10% compared to solid state - silicon based systems.

The one plus of a vacuum tube based radar is its power output. I wouldn't stand in front of one during a test op as some versions were Smerch-A, 600 Kilowatt versions. (Yes, you read that right, kilowatt...) Today that would be a huge drawback. You would be 'painted' from thousands of miles away by a AWAC's E-3 Sentry in a nano-second.

Flying eyeball · Feb 22, 2019

AH-1G said:
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25's have not been in front line fighter service in any National Air Force since 2006.

Vacuum tubed early radar systems were replaced by electronic versions in the mid-1990's. While it is true, early generation vacuum tubes can survive an EMP, in 99% of the tests the Russian's carried out, the electronic board the vacuum tubes were attached were fused (short circuited) and severely damaged. The only way to increase the odds of its survival is to turn off any device during the EMP event (and it is not guaranteed to work), which means its weapons sensors are turned off, something pilots are not going to do and how would they know when to turn it off. EMP effects occur 1/1,000,000th of a second after they occur.

Modern aircraft do not use vacuum tube based systems for three primary reasons;

Reliability (poor) and size (huge)

Power consumption (massive) and quality of power (sensitive to any noise)

Accuracy (timing) is 10% compared to solid state - silicon based systems.

The one plus of a vacuum tube based radar is its power output. I wouldn't stand in front of one during a test op as some versions were Smerch-A, 600 Kilowatt versions. (Yes, you read that right, kilowatt...) Today that would be a huge drawback. You would be 'painted' from thousands of miles away by a AWAC's E-3 Sentry in a nano-second.

Typical western propaganda Comrade.

Fred Garvin · Feb 22, 2019

Vacuum tubes have their place......ain’t nuthin like that warm tone, or the sound made when pushed way past 11!

PatR · Feb 22, 2019

AH-1G said:
The one plus of a vacuum tube based radar is its power output. I wouldn't stand in front of one during a test op as some versions were Smerch-A, 600 Kilowatt versions. (Yes, you read that right, kilowatt...) Today that would be a huge drawback. You would be 'painted' from thousands of miles away by a AWAC's E-3 Sentry in a nano-second.

Don't get in front of U.S. Naval warship's weapons radar. You can get microwave cooked a long ways out.

Flying eyeball · Feb 22, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
Vacuum tubes have their place......ain’t nuthin like that warm tone, or the sound made when pushed way past 11!

View attachment 14667

H*LL yeah I’ll put that in my pipe and smoke it , that thing just might reverse an EMP

Flying eyeball · Feb 22, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
Vacuum tubes have their place......ain’t nuthin like that warm tone, or the sound made when pushed way past 11!

View attachment 14667

I’ve got an 89 Mr. Jackson Who would love to meet Mr. Marshall........ that sounds gay oh well .

PatR · Feb 23, 2019

As long as you didn’t have a Mr. Johnson in that mix...

Fred Garvin · Feb 23, 2019

Flying eyeball said:
I’ve got an 89 Mr. Jackson Who would love to meet Mr. Marshall........ that sounds gay oh well .

I dont have that kinda money in my rig.....I WISH I did.....but no....just an MG30CFX and an Epiphone Plustop Les Paul in cherryburst.

LOL...this thread sure derailed.....from smart batteries to fighter jets to amps and guitars.....

AH-1G · Feb 23, 2019

Flying eyeball said:
Typical western propaganda Comrade.

The west designs the best than the rest. Jealousy will never admit it!??

Flying eyeball · Feb 23, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
I dont have that kinda money in my rig.....I WISH I did.....but no....just an MG30CFX and an Epiphone Plustop Les Paul in cherryburst.

LOL...this thread sure derailed.....from smart batteries to fighter jets to amps and guitars.....

Yeah , but it sure was fun , what else are a bunch of old f*cks going to do on a Friday night .

Dougcjohn · Feb 23, 2019

Take a few days away on work and the 'Ole Boys get to nik picking.... Cool!

This isn't a smart friendly battery Forum environment, so I'll reserve my comments... positive & neg.

Love the American might & technology, but the Mig35 & 41 are extremely impressive technology. Over the years they've conjured up some impressive hardware over the years, some challenged us and took several years to equal or beat. Although not fully proved, their new ultra sonic cruise has really set the fear-gears into motion too.

Every since we mothballed the Shuttle and riding in Bi#ch seat, I found very disturbing. I grew up with... "don't throw the old hardware out til ya trust what replaces it"... G-Pa did love his old tractors! NASA didn't have our new designs done, concept builds, nor trusted the IvanRide.

Out of all the Govt's dumb enforcements on Cybermalware software and ways to prevent any IT intrusion, we hand over all our gear, payload cargo, and ample information in order to hitch a ride on HammerTime to deploy classified equipment that requires their participation. Kinda like finger in **** while they stroll the hallways.

Their new Subs remain a mystery, but they've always been extremely deadly, The AK is superior in the field, especially our re-mod eating 7.62nato. The Makarov 9mm was the only 9mm that challenged the 45, and worked better in mud & snow. Sputnik began all the designs & theories expanding the WWII German Scientist (aka: NASA Eng) in satelites, Spetsnaz GRU training has provided many new techniques to elite forces (with the change of tide, they probably regret that generosity).

Similar to Corperate competition, but focused on fear & destruction, when either side brings out susperior technology it just stimulates competition. Stealth forced defensive side to create higher technology detection, which created "advanced" stealth that was later determined can even be put on a helicopter & rotors.

But while we're all returning to cold war views and distrust, they're busy building a huge alliance with China and others. It's not Russian Technology we should be focus locked on, Others are in the BigBoy games now and has a huge determination to win.

Short comment on OP thread... Smart Battrries have their disadvantages and advantages, but like any circuit layer added to old technology requires a new layer of maintence, learning curve and higher cost.

The old points ignition, lead acid 12v, single function alternator, air nailer all had strong points, and several still defend, but new technology eventually wins and creates even better technology. As I see it, we're on smart battery ver 1.5... version 3 or 4 will provide more, out perform, and probably be provided in a smaller lower cost package. If battery technology was thrown out based on a period of design and associated flaw, we wouldn't have hi-tech cell phones able to run all day or Micro IC circuits in anything including aircraft.

Reguarding market demand and phased out product, that's not just Smart Batteties that will be phased out. If smart battery is a popular model, as company drops production, a 3rd party will provide. As technology developes, the current lipo will be phased out for various reasons to consummer: dangerous, easy to damage container, move to better chemicals, or identify how the current package can be modified for IED... they'll be pulled too. All batteries of gel makeup will probably be phased out as new technology toward newer more hardening curing chemicals are introduced not as effected by cold, etc.

As in everything, it'll be replaced with new technology... just a matter of time and market.

Flying eyeball · Feb 23, 2019

Dougcjohn said:
Take a few days away on work and the 'Ole Boys get to nik picking.... Cool!

This isn't a smart friendly battery Forum environment, so I'll reserve my comments... positive & neg.

Love the American might & technology, but the Mig35 & 41 are extremely impressive technology. Over the years they've conjured up some impressive hardware over the years, some challenged us and took several years to equal or beat. Although not fully proved, their new ultra sonic cruise has really set the fear-gears into motion too.

Every since we mothballed the Shuttle and riding in Bi#ch seat, I found very disturbing. I grew up with... "don't throw the old hardware out til ya trust what replaces it"... G-Pa did love his old tractors! NASA didn't have our new designs done, concept builds, nor trusted the IvanRide.

Out of all the Govt's dumb enforcements on Cybermalware software and ways to prevent any IT intrusion, we hand over all our gear, payload cargo, and ample information in order to hitch a ride on HammerTime to deploy classified equipment that requires their participation. Kinda like finger in **** while they stroll the hallways.

Their new Subs remain a mystery, but they've always been extremely deadly, The AK is superior in the field, especially our re-mod eating 7.62nato. The Makarov 9mm was the only 9mm that challenged the 45, and worked better in mud & snow. Sputnik began all the designs & theories expanding the WWII German Scientist (aka: NASA Eng) in satelites, Spetsnaz GRU training has provided many new techniques to elite forces (with the change of tide, they probably regret that generosity).

Similar to Corperate competition, but focused on fear & destruction, when either side brings out susperior technology it just stimulates competition. Stealth forced defensive side to create higher technology detection, which created "advanced" stealth that was later determined can even be put on a helicopter & rotors.

But while we're all returning to cold war views and distrust, they're busy building a huge alliance with China and others. It's not Russian Technology we should be focus locked on, Others are in the BigBoy games now and has a huge determination to win.

Short comment on OP thread... Smart Battrries have their disadvantages and advantages, but like any circuit layer added to old technology requires a new layer of maintence, learning curve and higher cost.

The old points ignition, lead acid 12v, single function alternator, air nailer all had strong points, and several still defend, but new technology eventually wins and creates even better technology. As I see it, we're on smart battery ver 1.5... version 3 or 4 will provide more, out perform, and probably be provided in a smaller lower cost package. If battery technology was thrown out based on a period of design and associated flaw, we wouldn't have hi-tech cell phones able to run all day or Micro IC circuits in anything including aircraft.

Reguarding market demand and phased out product, that's not just Smart Batteties that will be phased out. If smart battery is a popular model, as company drops production, a 3rd party will provide. As technology developes, the current lipo will be phased out for various reasons to consummer: dangerous, easy to damage container, move to better chemicals, or identify how the current package can be modified for IED... they'll be pulled too. All batteries of gel makeup will probably be phased out as new technology toward newer more hardening curing chemicals are introduced not as effected by cold, etc.

As in everything, it'll be replaced with new technology... just a matter of time and market.

Very very good sir , well written ,thank you for sharing the real world light on things , some people can only see as far as their backyard will allow. Oh ,and one more thing ,my thread was based on the theory of Murphy’s Law.

Phaedrus · Feb 23, 2019

Murphy was an optimist!!!

PatR · Feb 23, 2019

The Russian stuff was designed to always work in the harshest of environments, continue to work even when some parts broke, and be serviced by the lowest intelligence level personnel. What they lacked in quality they made up for in quantity as they were less expensive to construct.

In all those areas history shows they’ve been quite successful.

As for “smart” batteries, when they do more than just provide a user an excuse to be lazy or to allow idiots a means to function in an environment requiring intelligence they will serve better purpose. They don’t need to triple or more the cost of a standard battery to accomplish that. The components used to construct a smart battery amount to no more than a few dollars in parts and labor, leaving current pricing without any justification.

Phaedrus · Feb 23, 2019

Which while we are on the subject, the cost of the "dumb" Yuneec packs is absurd. You can get a decent 25C 4S 5,000 pack for $40. So for the H+ Yuneec charges $180. I'd be happy with an XT60 connector and velcro strap to hold my own packs in. $120 for a connector and some plastic seems a little stiff.

Dougcjohn · Feb 23, 2019

PatR said:
The Russian stuff was designed to always work in the harshest of environments, continue to work even when some parts broke, and be serviced by the lowest intelligence level personnel. What they lacked in quality they made up for in quantity as they were less expensive to construct.

In all those areas history shows they’ve been quite successful.

As for “smart” batteries, when they do more than just provide a user an excuse to be lazy or to allow idiots a means to function in an environment requiring intelligence they will serve better purpose. They don’t need to triple or more the cost of a standard battery to accomplish that. The components used to construct a smart battery amount to no more than a few dollars in parts and labor, leaving current pricing without any justification.

LOL... what? R&D justifies all, Right? No?
The pretty color coordinated hi-impact plastic case, that becomes an integral part of fuselage in design and structural strength... and incorporate the LED stage lights within design... and release tabs designed after hours of research obtaining balance of secure clasp design and the statistical avgerage pressure a person can squeeze and circuit board all tucked within a nifty wireless package. For the initial 9.75 years ROI, the cost to recover design... $200 to $500 Each is reasonable... you don’t buy that?

No argument, all smart batteries are out of reasonable sight in price. Nothing stings more than paying 2x, 4x, 6x what a LiPoHV pack should sell Retail. But, it gives a small sense of successful hunt if you can find 30-60% off. I’ve personally never purchased retail... if patient, they can be found.

As @RPR lead to on Airport check, I’d add for any Govt / Fed site that scans. Having no wires show up in scans, Inspector able to push a button to check condition goes a ways in accepting some of the excessive price. Loose wire lead lipo’s rattle some Inspectors or Marshals. Most smart batteries “look” part of platform, loose lead LiPo or cassette LiPo’s aren’t familiar or comfortable to the uninformed Inspectors.

Agree @Phaedrus, OEM Yuneec LiPo are excessive when compared to... 3rd Party, OEM’s 2x-4x price and poor quality. Eventually the same will apply to smart batteries too.