“ We don’t want no smart batteries”!!

[PatR]

If what you really like is bacon, why dilute it with a bunch of other less tasty stuff?

I was aware of kale’s previous status as a difficult to eradicate weed. That heavily supports my previous reference about new profit centers. It aligns with how California refineries dealt with disposal of the poisonous byproduct MTBE. They stuck it in gasoline and called it a critical clean air additive and raised the price of gasoline. It worked for awhile, until the stuff was found polluting municipal water reservoirs.

My opposition to smart batteries? Cost, weight, complexity, bulk, inability to ascertain cell quality, single source dependence, ability to prematurely obsolete fully functional designs in order to facilitate new design sales. Enabling terminally stupid people to participate in this activity factors in as well.

 

[Phaedrus]

My understanding of the development and use of MTBE is a little different from yours.

But I agree completely with you on smart batteries.

 

[PatR]

My understanding of the development and use of MTBE is a little different from yours.

I can always depend on you

 

[Dougcjohn]

It’s always refreshing to attend a classic car show, and listen to all the stories about the good ‘ole days and how much better & simpler cars and the world was then. Truly a joy to see, touch & reflect on the old rods & 60’s muscle... old goal was 1hp per Cube... 500hp Rat was bad!

Used to be able see the plugs, rebuild the carbs, install new diodes in alternator, CC the chambers, and pull a motor under a few hours. Good ‘Ole Torque & HP.

Also recall resetting choke 2-4 times a year for weather, R&R thermostat for seasons, replacing dual points & combined dwell, rejeting for altitude, valves & cleaning carbon, rings & bearings before 60k miles, brakes every 30K and lucky to get 3 yrs out of battery and less for a set of tires.

Now a days, drive year around cold to heat, 2-3x MPG, obtain 120-240k miles and still purring. Rarely see a service shop, and mostly for a recall campaign. Less torque but easily 450-600hp and better trap times... turn key.

Simplicity Old School doesn’t always make it better... I like modern technology and it’s benefits. I can still build & tune a Rat, but I’m in the minority. Does that make everyone lazy, nah just busy with other parts of life and accepting technology.

Batteries have improved and drastically changed over a short window of time and the acceleration of technology change is only increasing. In 10 or 25 years, what we consider modern hi-tech batteries will be like the ole zinc-carbon cells. The industry will adapt and move forward.

Ahhh there goes an old street rod... was he eating kale?

 

[Phaedrus]

I can always depend on you

I was cleaning up MTBE contaminated sites back east in the late 80's. They started using it back there in the late 70's as a lead replacement. Worked great for that. Just a bummer that it's 26 times more soluble in water than most of the other 800+ constituents in gasoline!

Most MTBE was made from a natural gas feedstock as are most plastics. It was popular on the coasts while ethanol was popular in the midwest due to the ready supply of corn.

I was at a meeting of UST owners back in the late 90's. The California Air Resources Board (who mandated MTBE use) and the State Water Resources Control Board (who were responsible for the cleanup of MTBE-impacted groundwater) were up on the stage. A Mom&Pop gas station owner came to the microphone and while motioning at the 2 groups groups asked: "Do you guys ever talk to each other? CARB made us put in the gas, and now it's in the water and the Water is making us clean it up. Thanks for nothing."

Unintended consequences. Just like who knew if you put a steel tank in the ground it might rust and leak? No way to see that coming ?

 

[Talisman]

yep... for the same reason NASA backed up a truck to R&D the crap out of finding something to write in space with when the CCCP crowd opted for a lead pencil.... outcome still the same..... go figure...

 

[Dougcjohn]

yep... for the same reason NASA backed up a truck to R&D the crap out of finding something to write in space with when the CCCP crowd opted for a lead pencil.... outcome still the same..... go figure...

Our best minds... that's just sad. I'll bet half of them had a pencil or mechanical pencil in their pocket protector too!

 

[PatR]

I remember buying gas for $0.249/gallon and being able to but a new 1800sq.ft. home for $14,000.00, with a federal minimum wage of ~$1.65/hr, but that was due to economics and value of the Dollar.

Advances in tech are a good thing and have made many aspects of life better but not all tech is automatically a good thing. Often it’s a double edged sword. IT is a perfect example. We can do much and do it faster than ever could have been imagined but the byproduct was a loss of personal privacy while sweating our banks and credit accounts might be emptied by a tech savvy thief using a stolen identity. A glass panel private plane is a wonderful thing but what do you do when in the clouds when the electrical system fails? You revert to the “old school” steam gauges and paper charts.

Like Doug I could still build a Rat and extract max performance from the engine. They are still beautiful things, providing enjoyment that goes off the scale. How many today know what a Rat is, let alone have the knowledge and skill to build one? How many in this hobby have the ability to build their own model airplane or multirotor?

I truly appreciate how advances in technology have benefitted in so many ways but I also recognize some of those advances have caused limitations and excessive complexity while increasing cost. When and wherever possible simplicity is highly desirable, and often more reliable. Where the current crop of smart batteries the cost vs benefit balance is greatly skewed towards cost with benefits having to be factored over a long term, a term that may exceed the life of the battery to achieve a positive. We also have no concept of the accuracy of the info they provide. What accuracy standard is being used? What quality assurance standard is used for components? What manufacturing standard? Those questions will require an answer before government requires smart battery implementation.

 

[PatR]

Our best minds... that's just sad. I'll bet half of them had a pencil or mechanical pencil in their pocket protector too!

I’ll still grab a mechanical pencil before a pen when making notes or recording data. Unless they are out of “lead” they always work and errors are easier to correct.

 

[Dougcjohn]

I truly appreciate how advances in technology have benefitted in so many ways but I also recognize some of those advances have caused limitations and excessive complexity while increasing cost. When and wherever possible simplicity is highly desirable, and often more reliable. Where the current crop of smart batteries the cost vs benefit balance is greatly skewed towards cost with benefits having to be factored over a long term, a term that may exceed the life of the battery to achieve a positive. We also have no concept of the accuracy of the info they provide. What accuracy standard is being used? What quality assurance standard is used for components? What manufacturing standard? Those questions will require an answer before government requires smart battery implementation.

Or a Govt acceptance will create standards and layers of additional complexity.

 

[PatR]

Or a Govt acceptance will create standards and layers of additional complexity.

Statistical analysis would likely show a 100% probability of that happening...

 

[PatR]

Stumbled across this brief article in general news a few minutes ago and I agree with all of it. The timing was perfect.

15 reasons why teaching Millenials to fly is tough

 

[Dougcjohn]

.... How many in this hobby have the ability to build their own model airplane or multirotor?

And rockets too... remember the 3 stage camera Estes, sweet! Balsa & tissue... do they still make dope like they used to or is it vapor free? Now that was fun building... and crashing.

Back on batteries...
Still on&off building an Octal based off a SpreadingWing S1000 frame... different electronics, motors & ESC’s, 17-18” props, longer & thicker boom arms, landing gear, multiple gimbal mount points... started as a bit more simplistic alternative design to use LiPo bricks vs M600Pro 6-pak pricey cells and it’s grown into a fun build... that has introduced other thoughts, overall may be underpowered now.

That led to discovering the Tarot X4 frame converting to a X8 push&pull stack that can support some hefty motors and 21” props with a nice ridged positive dish angle arm mounts. That frame is actually bigger and better quality than assumed... Maybe next Winter’s project. It would easily handle weight of large format & lenses, LED panels or multi-payload discharge box for led flairs, smoke poppers, food, etc.

Question haven’t been able to locate, but logic indicates. Difference in radial Octal vs X8 Push&Pull total lift. How much lift is lost when P&P props are so close together the lower dish is in the upper wash... and upper’s lift being effected by the air disturbance beneath. Can’t be a straight motor / prop performance spec as radial, but unable to find any reference other than full scale P&P which is different due to increased distance between motors.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Stumbled across this brief article in general news a few minutes ago and I agree with all of it. The timing was perfect.

15 reasons why teaching Millenials to fly is tough

Agree and presented in a humorous manor... true & sad.
Tried to teach a young talented shooter the art of reloading, mic’ing Case and trimming, Calc powder & projectile... he was lost, looked at me seriously and informed me that they do sell ammo in stores. He wants to join the Army and be a... you guessed it, Sniper.

Great read, thanks!

 

[AH-1G]

Stumbled across this brief article in general news a few minutes ago and I agree with all of it. The timing was perfect.

15 reasons why teaching Millenials to fly is tough

He spelled Millennial wrong, it has two n's not one.?
My son is now 30 so that puts him the Millennial group.
I did not purchase any cell phones for him until he graduated from high school. I figured when he went to college he would need it then.
I taught him how to fix cars, home repair and many other things.
Now that he is married and has a home, he has done just those things. Though once in while he'll ask me a question or two.?

 

[Dougcjohn]

He spelled Millennial wrong, it has two n's not one.?
My son is now 30 so that puts him the Millennial group.
I did not purchase any cell phones for him until he graduated from high school. I figured when he went to college he would need it then.
I taught him how to fix cars, home repair and many other things.
Now that he is married has a home, he has done just those things. Though once in while he'll ask me a question or two.?

Like your family, there are exceptions but very thin. Congrats to you Dad! I did similar with my Daughter, but over the years living in Houston and her click friends, she has adopted to some of their mindset... that’s mid-30’s age too.

If he’s well rounded, he’s probably even mentioned the oddity of the majority of his Generation.

 

[PatR]

Tried to teach a young talented shooter the art of reloading, mic’ing Case and trimming, Calc powder & projectile... he was lost, looked at me seriously and informed me that they do sell ammo in stores. He wants to join the Army and be a... you guessed it, Sniper.

He’s got some learning ahead of him. Most factory ammo is ok out to a couple hundred yards, only a few, depending on caliber, are good out to 500. After 800 yards ya gotta be right picky with COL’s, velocity, bullet weights, shapes and COE in order to tune the load to the barreled action.

Sure, a phone ballistics calculator works pretty good but they are very dependent on cartridge info to provide accurate results. Factory ammo, especially Lake City loads, deliver inconsistent results. If all you need is 2 MOA accuracy they’ll fill the bill.

Sniper accuracy demands understanding.

 

[AH-1G]

Like your family, there are exceptions but very thin. Congrats to you Dad! I did similar with my Daughter, but over the years living in Houston and her click friends, she has adopted to some of their mindset... that’s mid-30’s age too.

If he’s well rounded, he’s probably even mentioned the oddity of the majority of his Generation.

As a Police officer he's not to impressed.

 

[ThunderChicken]

He spelled Millennial wrong, it has two n's not one.?
My son is now 30 so that puts him the Millennial group.
I did not purchase any cell phones for him until he graduated from high school. I figured when he went to college he would need it then.
I taught him how to fix cars, home repair and many other things.
Now that he is married has a home, he has done just those things. Though once in while he'll ask me a question or two.?

The part about balancing the check book, what a waste of time. If I still have checks I still have money right?

My wife's kid told me that when the Sheriff was taking her off to jail, for hot checks.

 

[AH-1G]

The part about balancing the check book, what a waste of time. If I still have checks I still have money right?

My wife's kid told me that when the Sheriff was taking her off to jail, for hot checks.

I hardly use checks.
Balance you're check book? I just go online look at my checking and savings account, I can see any discrepancies there.