I think I understand what the pictures show but what led up to this? What about the telemetry and what conclusions did you reach?
Abrupt power loss
- Thread starter jandjfrench
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And many times people don't want to admit to a mistake, or they fabricate it.
And there are times that we are Absolutely, Positively, we did it correctly!
Is this crash an example of a situation where power was suddenly lost with the battery properly inserted and secured?
Also is the drone a 480? I notice differences from the new main frame I recently received as well as something on the landing gear leg.
That is an H Plus; the battery was properly inserted; the parts on the landing gear are snap on strobes.
OR - corrupt firmware?
My lesson learned:
If it does not start up normally, suspect corrupt firmware & re-flash it. (It was not RFI.)
I went to fly a mission at noon.
The H would not arm normally.
Then it spun the props & stopped by itself.
Power off & reboot both the ST16 & the H. Same problem.
Later at home, I did a full test.
In my case, it appears to be a problem with channel 0. Yuneec support responded to my case the next day!
My lesson learned:
If it does not start up normally, suspect corrupt firmware & re-flash it. (It was not RFI.)
I went to fly a mission at noon.
The H would not arm normally.
Then it spun the props & stopped by itself.
Power off & reboot both the ST16 & the H. Same problem.
Later at home, I did a full test.
My H crashed when the motors stopped. The log entries kept writing as the H fell, so my battery was still on-line.
In my case, it appears to be a problem with channel 0. Yuneec support responded to my case the next day!
That is exactly the type of information I've been hoping to get. There is always skepticism expressed in various posts regarding battery installation. As you noted, there would be no telemetry once the battery disconnected. When I feel up to it I'll search old posts and check for abrupt loss of telemetry prior to the crash.OR - corrupt firmware?
My lesson learned:
If it does not start up normally, suspect corrupt firmware & re-flash it. (It was not RFI.)
I went to fly a mission at noon.
The H would not arm normally.
Then it spun the props & stopped by itself.
Power off & reboot both the ST16 & the H. Same problem.
Later at home, I did a full test.
My H crashed when the motors stopped. The log entries kept writing as the H fell, so my battery was still on-line.
In my case, it appears to be a problem with channel 0. Yuneec support responded to my case the next day!
I watched the video after I posted. You probably have little interest in rehashing that but I'm curious about several things.. You mention that the pitch and roll work which suggests that there was some lateral displacement from the take-off point. Yet with the crash being so close to it it seems that the gps was pretty much in control. What with the incorrect altitude and proximity of both the ST16 and the H close to trees and structures there is a lot to consider. What did Yuneec do about this? I will check the telemetry you posted but I don't know enough about interpreting it to be of much value. Perhaps someone will be able to glean something from it.
I don't have an explanation of what went wrong. It could have been a defective Flight Controller.
For future reference, I see a lot of things in your video that you need to consider:
1. Launching on concrete is risky. There is generally rebar or wire mesh embedded in the concrete which can affect the compass. In addition, the truck is very close which adds more potential interference.
2. Your launch location is very restricted. The aircraft needs a clear view of the sky. Although the display shows 11/12 sats, some of those may have been reflected signals.
3. "Home" does not return to the take off point. It returns to 10-15' from the controller. Even if it had descended there is a good chance it would have hit something coming down because the landing site is just too confined. Before selecting Home, move to an open area where the H has room to land.
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What comes to mind after watching the video, why didn't you turn off the drone and the controller, then back on? Reset.
It obvious something isn't right.?
I think you were to close to the house that resulted in interference. I've had this happen.
Then you started toggling switches at random, (sign of panic). Why panic, what in the world does the camera angle switches have to do with flying the drone?
We do see the battery isn't the issue.
It obvious something isn't right.?
I think you were to close to the house that resulted in interference. I've had this happen.
Then you started toggling switches at random, (sign of panic). Why panic, what in the world does the camera angle switches have to do with flying the drone?
We do see the battery isn't the issue.
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Earlier that day it was not responding at an open location.
I shut off & rebooted both the ST16 & the H. No change.
I wrongly assumed maybe RFI.
I have used that confined launch spot before with the same GPS acquisition.
The trees overhang the launch, so I roll left after take-off.
This time, the take-off was by surprise, and the quick slight left roll was instinctive.
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Still there were know issues it wasn't working properly. What if you were out in a park where more people been around, who knows you could have landed on someones head? Your lucky it didn't land on your head.
What I'm saying you had very sever issue with your drone and controller, you should have aborted any attempts of flying.
I'm sorry, this is frustrating, no thought about safety was considered here.
What I'm saying you had very sever issue with your drone and controller, you should have aborted any attempts of flying.
I'm sorry, this is frustrating, no thought about safety was considered here.
I'm sorry for not expressing a bit more sympathy in my posts. I didn't realize that this wasn't something that happened a while back. I hope everything will be resolved to your satisfaction.
FlushVision
Premium Pilot
I remember the very first time I attempted to launch after receiving my TH at the start of June 2016. I took it over to a nearby meadow, set it all up including compass calibration. Pushed the red button and nothing happened. I knew that the place had no restrictions regarding NFZ and such like and, albeit with my non existent flying experience with the TH at the time, I could see no reason why the motors wouldn't spin up. Flummoxed, I packed up and came away. After seeing the above video I'm now glad that I didn't persist.
I had a successful first flight the next day at a different location about a mile away from that first site. To this day I have no idea why the motors wouldn't spin up at that first attempt. I have since flown from that first site without any problems and, indeed, it has served me as a test site on numerous occasions.
I had a successful first flight the next day at a different location about a mile away from that first site. To this day I have no idea why the motors wouldn't spin up at that first attempt. I have since flown from that first site without any problems and, indeed, it has served me as a test site on numerous occasions.
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Sorry for your lose and glad no one was hurt. While watching this video I had several thoughts about the sequence of events and tend to agree with what others have said. I will offer my thoughts and hope this is not seen as criticism but rather as a means by which we can help others see how seemingly insignificant events can be spotted and corrected before they lead to a chain of events that ends up in a crash.
1] The take off location is a poor one and I see that you have done so successfully before but the canopy of trees, rebar in the concrete and near by vehicle make the take off point risky.
2] To take a screen shot of the controller, you need to 'Hold' the button down for about three seconds, a quick tap like you tried several times (2:08 in video) - will not work.
3] At 3;53 in the video you make a comment about the 'Home' altitude as being 114.8 feet and then display a graphic showing 'your' location as 830 ASL. This brings up several points:
5] At 5:20 the aircraft starts when the arming button is depressed as it should but seconds later we can see you are applying throttle (if your in mode 2) but we can't see what is happening on the right stick.
6] From the moment, I saw the first title at :01 seconds in - "A Test Flight To Diagnose Unresponsive Arm Button" I knew this was not going to end well.
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Unfamiliarity with all aspects of the system one is operating is at the heart of nearly every crash of everything man has put into the sky since the very beginning. I know because I have crashed my share of aircraft and when I began to honestly address the problem, things started getting better. ?
I noticed you had some preflight notes on stickers on the ST-16. You will need to add: Check ALL controls with Hardware Monitor. The Hardware Monitor is not well explained by Yuneec and many who may be unfamiliar with it may not realize just what it is for or how to use it - It literally is to do what your title said you were trying to do. It is the last line of defense before you put your aircraft into the air with unresponsive controls which can and will lead to a crash. It is the Drone Pilots 'Walk Around' and it needs to be understood and used properly.
The hardware monitor shows you that the physical movements of your controls are being converted into the corresponding electronic signal; OR that they're not and; if not - that needs to be fixed immediately and definitely before attempting to fly. Each and every control needs to be moved carefully and slowly while we watch that the indicators are moving in a corresponding manner. When each and every switch it moved, it must have a correlating indicator and when the arm button is depressed it should show on it's indicator. This is the last 'GO' or 'NO GO' check before committing to flight and in the video we could not see any evidence of a 'GO' anywhere.
Compounding the problem of unfamiliarity and not recognizing that if things are not adding up, we must stop and do not continue. Imagine if you got into an airplane, and while the pilot was getting ready he kept saying 'gosh, that's not right - it shouldn't do that' but he kept going and then started the engine - would you still be in the plane with him? The minute something doesn't add up, we need to slow down and find out why before proceeding. You were noticing things were not right but kept plodding forward until it did lift off and from that point forward you were along for the ride.
I suspect that one or more of the controls is faulty or needs cleaning. The low sat count and lack of a white light is due to the trees and surrounding buildings. Is there a chance you got into the controller and accidentally changed the Control Mode? After all, we can clearly see you banging the throttle stick around with no results to the running aircraft but we can't see if your right stick was moved, so is it possible you were in a different mode? Possibly but not likely. My guess is that your controller had one or more faulty controls, I have seen how a faulty stick at center position can give a positive command so it is likely that what you were experiencing was the stick, while at center was giving an input to climb thus; when it was in Angle or Smart it climbed but when flipped to home it stayed - as it is programmed to do.
At the end when you tilt the camera down we can see the aircraft is falling in a controlled manner - camera pointing down and losing altitude fast. I cannot see the voltage on the screen so is it possible that the arm switch; which we could clearly see was faulty at the beginning of the video - the reason for motors stop all by itself? I think there is a very good chance.
1] The take off location is a poor one and I see that you have done so successfully before but the canopy of trees, rebar in the concrete and near by vehicle make the take off point risky.
2] To take a screen shot of the controller, you need to 'Hold' the button down for about three seconds, a quick tap like you tried several times (2:08 in video) - will not work.
3] At 3;53 in the video you make a comment about the 'Home' altitude as being 114.8 feet and then display a graphic showing 'your' location as 830 ASL. This brings up several points:
a] You were reading the altitude (AGL) that the Typhoon will ascend to when RTL is selected - not the altitude ASL - the drone does not have this capability
b] Once properly booted up, the system will set the take off point (regardless of altitude ASL) - as Zero
4] At 4:40 in the video you enter the hardware monitor but do not seem to understand what you are looking for and just flip the sticks a few times. At 4:46 you finally hit the arm switch but then look away from the hardware monitor to the aircraft and call out 'we are bound'? What is missing is; to see if when you depress the arming button, if it is in fact happening electronically - this is what that monitor is for. You then exit the monitor without ever confirming proper operation of any of the controls.5] At 5:20 the aircraft starts when the arming button is depressed as it should but seconds later we can see you are applying throttle (if your in mode 2) but we can't see what is happening on the right stick.
6] From the moment, I saw the first title at :01 seconds in - "A Test Flight To Diagnose Unresponsive Arm Button" I knew this was not going to end well.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfamiliarity with all aspects of the system one is operating is at the heart of nearly every crash of everything man has put into the sky since the very beginning. I know because I have crashed my share of aircraft and when I began to honestly address the problem, things started getting better. ?
I noticed you had some preflight notes on stickers on the ST-16. You will need to add: Check ALL controls with Hardware Monitor. The Hardware Monitor is not well explained by Yuneec and many who may be unfamiliar with it may not realize just what it is for or how to use it - It literally is to do what your title said you were trying to do. It is the last line of defense before you put your aircraft into the air with unresponsive controls which can and will lead to a crash. It is the Drone Pilots 'Walk Around' and it needs to be understood and used properly.
The hardware monitor shows you that the physical movements of your controls are being converted into the corresponding electronic signal; OR that they're not and; if not - that needs to be fixed immediately and definitely before attempting to fly. Each and every control needs to be moved carefully and slowly while we watch that the indicators are moving in a corresponding manner. When each and every switch it moved, it must have a correlating indicator and when the arm button is depressed it should show on it's indicator. This is the last 'GO' or 'NO GO' check before committing to flight and in the video we could not see any evidence of a 'GO' anywhere.
Compounding the problem of unfamiliarity and not recognizing that if things are not adding up, we must stop and do not continue. Imagine if you got into an airplane, and while the pilot was getting ready he kept saying 'gosh, that's not right - it shouldn't do that' but he kept going and then started the engine - would you still be in the plane with him? The minute something doesn't add up, we need to slow down and find out why before proceeding. You were noticing things were not right but kept plodding forward until it did lift off and from that point forward you were along for the ride.
I suspect that one or more of the controls is faulty or needs cleaning. The low sat count and lack of a white light is due to the trees and surrounding buildings. Is there a chance you got into the controller and accidentally changed the Control Mode? After all, we can clearly see you banging the throttle stick around with no results to the running aircraft but we can't see if your right stick was moved, so is it possible you were in a different mode? Possibly but not likely. My guess is that your controller had one or more faulty controls, I have seen how a faulty stick at center position can give a positive command so it is likely that what you were experiencing was the stick, while at center was giving an input to climb thus; when it was in Angle or Smart it climbed but when flipped to home it stayed - as it is programmed to do.
At the end when you tilt the camera down we can see the aircraft is falling in a controlled manner - camera pointing down and losing altitude fast. I cannot see the voltage on the screen so is it possible that the arm switch; which we could clearly see was faulty at the beginning of the video - the reason for motors stop all by itself? I think there is a very good chance.
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Phaedrus
Premium Pilot
One other comment. You seemed very focused on looking at the controller rather than keeping track of the aircraft. You take a very fast glance only a few times. This is not good for your situational awareness. You need to get to the point where you can spend more time watching the aircraft and less time watching the screen. Control location/function should be second nature.
I found a bug in the ST16 channel settings!
Somehow K2 got activated on the throttle channel. (I sure as **** didn't mess with it.)
When the TILT SLIDER was up, ch0 went to ZERO, as if the red button was pushed!!!
Also the throttle would only go from 0 to +25 and B1 had no effect.
With K2 in the mix, when I centered it, B1 & the throttle stick both worked normally.
I then DEACTIVATED K2 from the throttle channel and now the throttle & B1 output values work!
(K2 now only controls A03 (ch6), just as it should.)
I have no idea how that happened.
I was unable to deliberately mix K2 back into channel 0 ???
The only initial symptom I had was the the red button seemed unresponsive.
When it did arm, it would only fly up or disarm & stop the motors.
Somehow K2 got activated on the throttle channel. (I sure as **** didn't mess with it.)
When the TILT SLIDER was up, ch0 went to ZERO, as if the red button was pushed!!!
Also the throttle would only go from 0 to +25 and B1 had no effect.
With K2 in the mix, when I centered it, B1 & the throttle stick both worked normally.
I then DEACTIVATED K2 from the throttle channel and now the throttle & B1 output values work!
(K2 now only controls A03 (ch6), just as it should.)
I have no idea how that happened.
I was unable to deliberately mix K2 back into channel 0 ???
The only initial symptom I had was the the red button seemed unresponsive.
When it did arm, it would only fly up or disarm & stop the motors.
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If K2 had been added to Channel 1 (channel 0 in the logs), that would certainly explain the shut down as well as the unusual throttle behavior. The only safe way to clear this problem so it does not happen again is to do a factory reset of the controller.
There is a video which explains the steps to do this:
There is a video which explains the steps to do this:
DCH
Dr. FrankenPhoon
I'm not at all sure you found a "Bug" in the channel settings, I think you found your mistake. You would be surprised at how easy it is to do this accidentally. One misplaced finger on the Channels screen and you can introduce a mix without even knowing what happened. I find it hard to believe that the mix just occurred as a result of a "Bug".
I saw at one point in your heartbreaking video you have the ST16 open to the Channels screen, ...while you were trying to get to the Hardware Monitor screen, ...while you were trying to get the motors to arm, ...while you were flipping the sticks up and down. In all the chaos you were creating at that moment it would be easy to tap the screen somewhere while the Channels screen was up.
You had more red flags by the time the motors armed than I have ever seen in a preflight, more than enough to scrub the mission and troubleshoot the problem before it left the ground.
Truly sorry for your loss.
The trouble was evident before this flight.
This was the first time I had looked to see if there was anything obvious.
If I had spotted the K2 anomaly then - - - anyway, 2 days later I found it.
After I disabled the K2 mix on the throttle channel, I tried to add K2 back into the mix.
I was not able to do that even deliberately.
Is there even a procedure to intentionally add K2 to the mix?
-Bill
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