Anxiously Awaiting the New 520 and Cgo Pro Camera!!!

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Gee, that lens says 23mm. The CGO3+ is 14mm with a 1/2.3" sensor and 94-deg FOV. Assuming that photo is of the new E90 camera a 1" sensor, what is its field of view? I don't think those sensor "dimensions" are enough to answer that question accurately. But it looks to me as though the larger sensor and longer focal length create similar FOV to our trusty CGO3+ camera.

That is correct... Just like film before it, the larger the film (or Sensor) area, the longer the focal length that is required to
achieve the specific field of view needed. In 35mm film the "normal" lens has a focal length of 50mm. For a 2 1/4 medium
format camera that same "normal" lens increases to 80mm. A commercial large format 4x5 view camera uses
a "normal" lens focal length of 135mm.

 

[Ace]

Gee, that lens says 23mm. The CGO3+ is 14mm with a 1/2.3" sensor and 94-deg FOV. Assuming that photo is of the new E90 camera a 1" sensor, what is its field of view? I don't think those sensor "dimensions" are enough to answer that question accurately. But it looks to me as though the larger sensor and longer focal length create similar FOV to our trusty CGO3+ camera.

That would be sweet! And I hope so... there's a couple of different opinions in here regarding whether both of these are "zoom" lens etc. Looks like there's a filter screwed on the front too. I hope it takes ND filters.

 

[Ace]

If you're grabbing from video where the camera is relatively still, the 50mb bit rate limit is pretty irrelevant. The limitations then are largely down to sensor size.



4K screen grab TIFFS for daily work means you don't want an every day camera though, doesn't it? You can't ask for both a low cost, every day camera and then expect to do something moderately specialist with it. If your work demands top quality, spend the few hundred bucks on the top quality camera and stop moaning about the cheap one.

And, again, it's not a 90mm equiv lens, its 90 degree FOV - which i think is about 18mm equiv on a 35mm camera.

The 50 is a 50 degree FOV - about 39mm equiv.

I started this thread to ask for information regarding the upcoming cameras. It wasn't for you to tell me that I don't need an upgraded camera, NOR that I should be perfectly happy with the CGO3+ camera. And that I'm moaning and that I'm cheap. Try to show some restraint.


I'm not asking for a low-cost camera. I'm just asking for a 100mb camera that I can place on a smaller bird with at least an 84 degree FOV that has a brand name of "Yuneec" on it. If that costs $1500 for that camera then so be it. There are several new cameras coming out and I was inquiring what everyone knew about them.

You're saying the E90 camera is 90fov but others are saying it's a zoom lens.

Try to stop worrying about "what I need" for my job and take care of yourself.

 

[PatR]

Unfortunately, speculation will not provide the answers we seek. We'll have to remain patient until Yuneec elects to release more information.

 

[Tuna]

I started this thread to ask for information regarding the upcoming cameras. It wasn't for you to tell me that I don't need an upgraded camera, NOR that I should be perfectly happy with the CGO3+ camera. And that I'm moaning and that I'm cheap. Try to show some restraint.

No offence was meant, and I apologise if any was taken. Like you, I'm just trying to make sense out of the information we have in the public domain.

I was a little confused by your comments - one minute you were talking about being a professional operator with no concerns over cost, and the next making a big deal of there not being an 'everyday' camera. To me that sounds like two different things.

It doesn't sound like you'll have an issue as there are going to be three or four cameras for you to choose from. I'd be very surprised if none of them met your needs.

 

[Ace]

No offence was meant, and I apologise if any was taken. Like you, I'm just trying to make sense out of the information we have in the public domain.

I was a little confused by your comments - one minute you were talking about being a professional operator with no concerns over cost, and the next making a big deal of there not being an 'everyday' camera. To me that sounds like two different things.

It doesn't sound like you'll have an issue as there are going to be three or four cameras for you to choose from. I'd be very surprised if none of them met your needs.

Thanks man. I was a little insulted but now I understand you didn't mean to. =) So thank you...

Yea, I shoot 4k video everyday and to save time I pull tiffs from that video as well. So a better camera with either a bigger and better sensor and/or more bit-rate if it helps etc. is what I need on a Yuenec 480 or 520 Typhoon series. I use primarily a CGO4 camera with a 12mm zuiko lens that equates to 84fov but the Yuneec Tornado is a big beast and I can't get it into tight spots. I'm just looking to get as close to the CGO4 quality as possible with a smaller setup and similar FOV.

I know that a 1 inch sensor isn't going to be as good as a micro 4/3 (I think??) So, I'm just crossing my fingers that one of the new cameras meets my goal.

Thank you!

 

[Tuna]

I know that a 1 inch sensor isn't going to be as good as a micro 4/3 (I think??) So, I'm just crossing my fingers that one of the new cameras meets my goal.

Thank you!

Yup - 1" sensors are smaller than micro four thirds, but about four times bigger (by area) than the existing CGO3+. With the pixel count going up from 12Mp to 20Mp that should mean a much better 'per pixel' area that translates to better dynamic range and sharper images. The newer Sony sensors are also much faster, so 4K @ 60fps does point to about 100 Mbits data rate. Of course the devil is in the detail - a lot will depend on the encoder, dynamic exposure, white balance and so on. It took Yuneec a couple of firmware revisions before the CGO3+ really got into its stride. We also don't know if there is a physical aperture control or global shutter which would really mark the new cameras out.

The CGO3+ comes from the same generation of cameras as the Mavic, Autel and P4 (1/2.3" sensors), whereas the new generation all seem to be using the same Sony 1" sensors. For comparison the CGO4 is essentially a Panasonic GH4 with remote control - the micro four thirds sensor in it is about eight times bigger (by area) than the CGO3+. Of course the problem is that when you get to that size, lenses and mounts get significantly heavier and you get into issues around balancing gimbals and maintaining flight time.

 

[PatR]

Not to be difficult, but you can put a Cinestar pretty much the same places you can put an H and my 810 goes wherever I want it to. Same with an Alta. Positional stability is what determines how tightly we can maneuver our aircraft. The differences only equate to a few inches. The larger birds have considerably more camera and lens flexibility so aircraft size differences are more than offset. Unless all the work demands a wide field of view I don't see the problem with any of the cameras and their FOV's referenced so far. I'm more interested in what flight control and mission planning differences that might be available with the 520. As for the 1" sensor, more light equates to a sharper image with all else being equal. By itself, a 1" sensor would permit better quality "screen grabs" if that's what you need to do to generate stills.

Personally, I'd love to fly your Tornado to gain a better perspective of your placement issues. I've only read about it's performance with users but what they have related suggests the Tornado is very solid in flight.

 

[H2O Aviators]

I have a Tornado and it is extremely stable and prefer that over the H Pro. The only issue I have, is the size makes it difficult to transport, can't put that in a backpack!

 

[PatR]

IMO, transport is the greatest negative with larger birds. Having to remove cap screw retained propellers, gimbals and cameras, design for folding, and utilize multiple secure cases can be quite a pain. Folding props help but I've found there are always balance issues that can't be rectified easily.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

I started this thread to ask for information regarding the upcoming cameras.

You're saying the E90 camera is 90fov but others are saying it's a zoom lens.

To clarify (and correct mis-information that is in part contributed to, by banners on this and other forums),
none of the upcoming cameras have a "zoom lens" They all have a fixed focus lens, with the differences
being the focal length of those lenses. The lens focal length cannot be changed, which is the parameter
that defines a "zoom lens".

If someone needs a true zoom lens that will in fact have a variable focal length, you are going to need
to look at the Typhoon 920 and any other future models in that series.

 

[Ace]

Not to be difficult, but you can put a Cinestar pretty much the same places you can put an H and my 810 goes wherever I want it to. Same with an Alta. Positional stability is what determines how tightly we can maneuver our aircraft. The differences only equate to a few inches. The larger birds have considerably more camera and lens flexibility so aircraft size differences are more than offset. Unless all the work demands a wide field of view I don't see the problem with any of the cameras and their FOV's referenced so far. I'm more interested in what flight control and mission planning differences that might be available with the 520. As for the 1" sensor, more light equates to a sharper image with all else being equal. By itself, a 1" sensor would permit better quality "screen grabs" if that's what you need to do to generate stills.

Personally, I'd love to fly your Tornado to gain a better perspective of your placement issues. I've only read about it's performance with users but what they have related suggests the Tornado is very solid in flight.

I hear ya...

The Tornado is rock solid in the air and I can fly it in winds up to 30mph with zero jello. I love it!

We use the smaller drones for real estate, interior work, forestry (believe it or not), and survey work. It's mostly fauna and other vegetative issues that keep up from using the bigger Tornado. It creates quite the prop wash and when it gets flown too close to buildings the prop wash sucks you into the structure and when flown too close to the ground it's quite disruptive blowing particulate everywhere including into the motors and optics.

So the Typhoon series has been the perfect size to do those shots for us when needed.

 

[Ace]

Yup - 1" sensors are smaller than micro four thirds, but about four times bigger (by area) than the existing CGO3+. With the pixel count going up from 12Mp to 20Mp that should mean a much better 'per pixel' area that translates to better dynamic range and sharper images. The newer Sony sensors are also much faster, so 4K @ 60fps does point to about 100 Mbits data rate. Of course the devil is in the detail - a lot will depend on the encoder, dynamic exposure, white balance and so on. It took Yuneec a couple of firmware revisions before the CGO3+ really got into its stride. We also don't know if there is a physical aperture control or global shutter which would really mark the new cameras out.

The CGO3+ comes from the same generation of cameras as the Mavic, Autel and P4 (1/2.3" sensors), whereas the new generation all seem to be using the same Sony 1" sensors. For comparison the CGO4 is essentially a Panasonic GH4 with remote control - the micro four thirds sensor in it is about eight times bigger (by area) than the CGO3+. Of course the problem is that when you get to that size, lenses and mounts get significantly heavier and you get into issues around balancing gimbals and maintaining flight time.

Awesome... lot of good info in your post... thank you!

 

[Ace]

IMO, transport is the greatest negative with larger birds. Having to remove cap screw retained propellers, gimbals and cameras, design for folding, and utilize multiple secure cases can be quite a pain. Folding props help but I've found there are always balance issues that can't be rectified easily.

I completely agree. I have the original H920 Tornado (waiting for winter to upgrade to the Plus) and I have to screw on the props, bring 4 lens with me a total of 15 batteries lol. it's a pain but she's a beauty in the air and is solid as a rock. Thus, worth it.

 

[Ace]

To clarify (and correct mis-information that is in part contributed to, by banners on this and other forums),
none of the upcoming cameras have a "zoom lens" They all have a fixed focus lens, with the differences
being the focal length of those lenses. The lens focal length cannot be changed, which is the parameter
that defines a "zoom lens".

If someone needs a true zoom lens that will in fact have a variable focal length, you are going to need
to look at the Typhoon 920 and any other future models in that series.

Good point... it's important to clarify that these are prime lens. I just didn't know how to ask whether these were tele-photo style lens or wide-angle and I would consider anything over 84 degrees to be wide angle.

I just don't know how to equate the 50mm to a FOV and it sounds like nobody is really sure because there's a lot of varying factors am I right?

One would think the FOV of a new camera would be widely available.

Thanks...

 

[PatR]

You might find the lack of info easier to understand if you knew there is a company that awaits the release of any competitor's press releases to initiate attacks on the product. They come out of the woodwork like roaches in the night and have no ethics. Worse, if the info is released early enough and the product improves on a competitors product that company will rush to upgrade what they have, release it before fully testing, and sell it at a loss to disrupt sales of other competitive products.

In this game you say little or nothing until you absolutely have to.

 

[H2O Aviators]

@PatR I never thought about it that way. That makes much more sense for the lack of communication when the H920 upgrade came about.

 

[Eagle's Eye Video]

Good point... it's important to clarify that these are prime lens. I just didn't know how to ask whether these were tele-photo style lens or wide-angle and I would consider anything over 84 degrees to be wide angle.

I just don't know how to equate the 50mm to a FOV and it sounds like nobody is really sure because there's a lot of varying factors am I right?

The standard OEM lens on the CGO cameras is a wide angle lens with a equivalent 35mm film focal length of
about 24mm. The longer lens offerings of the Peau 8.25, the CGO-CI and the new longer lens from PixAero
all have an approximate 35mm film focal length of about 45mm - 55mm... that range would be considered to
be a "normal" lens.

 

[Ace]

I used Google Translate to decipher this page: Yuneec H520 无人机国内首秀，这可不是换壳版 Typhoon H

And it seems to say that the E90 Camera is going to be very similar to DJI's X4s... same sensor etc.

Quote:
"Hao Xiang in CES Asia show the three cameras is not the final listing of the sale version, so the parameters and appearance may be further modified. If the accident is not the case, the H520 application scenario is still dominated by high-definition aerials, where the E90 4K is positioned with the Dazhen Wizard 4 Series 1-inch CMOS camera for Inspire 2's Zen X4S camera close." End of quote.

If you see the attached images. the X4s is stopped at 2.8 at 24mm for a FOV of 84 Degrees. On the E90 camera image you can see that it is also stopped at 2.8 but at 23mm. One can almost make out the FOV in the image but it sure looks like 87fov to me.

Another similarity between the two cameras is the 20mega pixels and the ability to record 4k at 60fps and 1080 at 120.

I'd be quite happy if this turns out to be true... It's fun to speculate. =)

 

[Dr Delta]

I used Google Translate to decipher this page: Yuneec H520 无人机国内首秀，这可不是换壳版 Typhoon H

And it seems to say that the E90 Camera is going to be very similar to DJI's X4s... same sensor etc.
Another similarity between the two cameras is the 20mega pixels and the ability to record 4k at 60fps and 1080 at 120.

I'd be quite happy if this turns out to be true... It's fun to speculate. =)View attachment 6328 View attachment 6329

Good search.

And yeh, exactly as mentioned in another thread in this forum on friday 16th (EOI for the H520 Down Under.).

Although a pretty good camera by specs I do not know if 'happy' is the right word for the Yuneec camera which seems quite the same but will cost double the price as the Zenmuse X4S.

cheers!