Battery Drain Issue

[aniwack]

I fly the H520 with the E50/E90/CGOET package for a government agency and ever since the July 2018 big update we are only getting 17 minutes of flight time with our batteries. We started out with 5 batteries that were being flown and I know that the flight times averaged roughly 23 minutes with 30% remaining. But suddenly after an update our batteries aren't lasting. I can fly 17 minutes and be at 20% now. We purchased another brand new battery and it's experiencing the exact same battery drain issue. I've discussed this with our vendor and they are just as perplexed as we are. I've been researching this for the last several months and so far I have yet to come up with a solution.
Have any other agencies been experiencing battery drain issues in flight and how have you remedied the problem?

 

[Steve Carr]

It is possible the firmware update changed the percentage calculation. It's one reason I prefer battery voltage readings rather than a percentage. It's not an option on the 520 or the H Plus, but it does make sense to measure voltage before and after a flight. That is the only way to know for sure the batteries are getting a full charge.

You could also install the older firmware to check if this was changed during the update.

 

[dan reed]

I fly the H520 with the E50/E90/CGOET package for a government agency and ever since the July 2018 big update we are only getting 17 minutes of flight time with our batteries. We started out with 5 batteries that were being flown and I know that the flight times averaged roughly 23 minutes with 30% remaining. But suddenly after an update our batteries aren't lasting. I can fly 17 minutes and be at 20% now. We purchased another brand new battery and it's experiencing the exact same battery drain issue. I've discussed this with our vendor and they are just as perplexed as we are. I've been researching this for the last several months and so far I have yet to come up with a solution.
Have any other agencies been experiencing battery drain issues in flight and how have you remedied the problem?

buy the charging cable from e bay so u can charge it and monitor the cell on a lipo charger,to see what cell volts are u might have a low cell it can be balanced using a lipo charger u can get a decent lipo charger on e bay around 50.00 and cabel for typhoon is between 10-13.00,if u have a low cell all other 3 cells will follow that low cell and reduce your flying time,thats y they have balance chargers,not the ones that come with it,i have charged balanced mine at 1-2 amps or 1000-2000 mah,plus u can put battery in storage mode if u are not going to fly for over 2 months,if u store battery in fully charged mode for over 2 months it will puff cells and reduce your flight time,it is a small investment for getting the most from your battery,i been in r.c. for 45years seen it all,now can someone tell me where i can fly without getting sent toalcatraz really

 

[arruntus]

It is possible the firmware update changed the percentage calculation. It's one reason I prefer battery voltage readings rather than a percentage. It's not an option on the 520 or the H Plus, but it does make sense to measure voltage before and after a flight. That is the only way to know for sure the batteries are getting a full charge.

You could also install the older firmware to check if this was changed during the update.

I asked for this a long time ago, someday it will come to us? I haven't tried in this last update, maybe they have implemented it, like other things, and they haven't said anything.

Anyway @aniwack , what @dan reed tells you is the right thing to do. The charger that comes with the H520 does not even reach the category of toy, it is bad with greed. If you really want the batteries to last a long time, don't fail in flight and don't have to buy new ones, charge them with a good charger. It's worth it, because for the price of one battery that you have to buy, for not leaving it at the right charge when you don't want to fly, you have already amortized it.

If you search in the forum, you will see that on this subject we have spoken at length.

 

[aniwack]

I bought a pair of the DY5 chargers for the batteries. I'm very pleased I can actually see the cell voltage and also have a way to put the batteries into storage mode. I was never a fan of the charger that came with it. I've searched the forum but did not find an answer to the power problem. Even our vendor is perplexed.

 

[arruntus]

I bought a pair of the DY5 chargers for the batteries. I'm very pleased I can actually see the cell voltage and also have a way to put the batteries into storage mode. I was never a fan of the charger that came with it. I've searched the forum but did not find an answer to the power problem. Even our vendor is perplexed.

Eeeeeeeeeeeee don't take this the wrong way @aniwack , but I think you've made a bad buy. I give you my opinion of why.

They are Yuneec's own chargers, they will only serve you to charge this model of battery. Do they do their job? I don't doubt it. But tomorrow you can buy another drone, the same or another manufacturer, and these chargers will no longer serve you for anything. You'd have to buy new ones.

The ideal is to buy multipurpose chargers, which are good for almost for charge any type of battery and then buy an adapter cable for Yuneec batteries.

Yuneec H520 Professional Battery Charging Cable

 

[aniwack]

While I agree with you that aftermarket multipurpose chargers may be the best choice, unfortunately I have a policy letter that we will only use the manufacturer’s equipment for their aircraft. But at least I can see the four cells on the display.

 

[arruntus]

Remember not to charge the batteries if you are not going to use them in the next 24 hours.

If you have a charged battery put it in storage mode, check them at most every 3 months and store them in a cool place. Only with this you will extend the life of the batteries a lot and they will last longer functional.

 

[aniwack]

Remember not to charge the batteries if you are not going to use them in the next 24 hours.

If you have a charged battery put it in storage mode, check them at most every 3 months and store them in a cool place. Only with this you will extend the life of the batteries a lot and they will last longer functional.

Unfortunately in emergency incident response I am required to keep at least five ready to go at all times. I’m using storage mode to discharge and then recharging at least once a week.

 

[Phaedrus]

If you store batteries for any length of time at full charge their ability to deliver full flight time will drop off faster than properly stored packs. You can't argue with the physics. If you must keep packs charged, then you must also accept that they will degrade faster/sooner. BTW - doing a discharge then recharge does nothing to affect this situation.

 

[arruntus]

Unfortunately in emergency incident response I am required to keep at least five ready to go at all times. I’m using storage mode to discharge and then recharging at least once a week.

@BigAl07 He's in the same situation as you. He commented on another thread like this talking about the same thing as he managed it. Towards cycles of charge and discharge of batteries sequentially and had everything pointed so that all the batteries were in the same state. That way, he was always prepared. He is also in emergency incident response. Search the forum and you'll find out how he does it. Let's see if he reads this and tells you how he does it, but I thought it was a very good idea.

P.D.: 2 Out Of 3 Batteries Drain FAAAAAAST!

 

[BigAl07]

Unfortunately in emergency incident response I am required to keep at least five ready to go at all times. I’m using storage mode to discharge and then recharging at least once a week.

If you're keeping packs at FULL (approx 100%) charge you're going to see a degradation in performance across the board in short order. In theory, you only need to have enough packs "Mission Ready" to fly long enough to bring other packs from storage charge (approx 50%) up to 100%.

Also keep in mind that a Discharge and then subsequent Re-charge doesn't reduce the stress of keeping the packs at full charge. It's not the charge Cycle that preserves the pack but the storage charge rate NOT being harmful to the packs long-term.

We have packs ready for ONE FLIGHT 24/7 with all others kept at 50%. With in-vehicle charging, charging on-scene etc, we usually arrive at any local incident with packs full and ready for a long day of flying and charging.

Ideally you want to make sure you're "rotating" your inventory so that the Mission Ready packs are not always the same pack(s). We track each pack with a # and make sure to rotate stock so the same pack(s) are not kept FULL repeatedly.

Let's assume this aircraft only needs a single pack. We have 12 packs for Aircraft #001.

1/1/2019
Pack #01 FULL Charge
Packs #02 - #12 are all in Storage capacity (re 50%)

1/8/2019
Pack #01 discharged to 50%
Pack #02 charged to FULL
Packs #03 - #12 confirmed at 50%

1/15/2019
Pack #02 discharged to 50%
Pack #03 charged to FULL
Pack #01, #02, and 04 -12 all confirmed to 50% (so on . . . )

If you have an aircraft that takes multiple packs (M600 takes 6) we label them 1.1 & 1.2 .....2.1 & 2.2..... and do the same routine keeping "flights" together.

If we fly the aircraft we simply track battery usage and adjust Full/Storage packs accordingly but we maintain the rotation for Storage Charge regardless.

This way we are always Mission Ready and we are minimizing the stress and abuse on our packs.

If your Director/Commander is requiring you to keep 5 Flight Packs fully charged 24/7 he/she needs to understand the loss of performance and stress this puts on the packs. I'd guess if you took precision pack and cell readings on your packs monthly you'd see a decrease in the #'s and it's a pretty steady (but not drastic) decline from month to month. If left at FULL Charge long enough you'll see a significant decrease in performance.

I've ruined several "less expensive" packs because I charged them and left them for a few months FULL. Time to fly and I have low performance (no punch) and flight times went from 10 minutes to 3. This has often been the case for aircraft I fly for fun and only in warm weather. Charge the batteries for a flying session in the fall and something comes up and I don't fly. They go into a box and next spring I'm "I'd like to fly that aircraft today." I pull it out of storage and the packs are "seem" fine but very dismal performance. I replaced 6 batteries about a month ago for one of my aircraft that I wanted to fly that was in storage. They were only $5 each so not a big deal.

Back in the old days of "Generic" packs we would simply re-issue packs from our helo and Multirotors to airplanes which require much less PUNCH and Performance than rotary aircraft. But with today's very aircraft specific packs that's not the case. We keep less performance packs around for updates and testing purposes or we simply recycle them with other similar batteries appropriately.

 

[aniwack]

The more I read the more I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place with management not understanding what all I do regardless of how many emails get sent. So how my schedule works is I'm on the road four days a week off three. My office is the back row of a Ford F-550 where everything including my gear just fits. By SOP I'm to be mission ready 24/7. There's no time to charge batteries and wait almost an hour for them to be ready when you're called to a commercial vehicle fire. I have five batteries in storage that are rotated out monthly.

The main problem remains. Why am I getting 17 minutes of flight time on these batteries since the July update. It would be nice if they would release smart batteries and be done with it.

 

[arruntus]

When you have time, check that the percentages are no longer the same, get 1 meter from the ground and see how now you can stretch the battery more. Look at the final voltage, pressing the % of the battery shows the total voltage of the battery in volts.

3.3 x 4 = 13.2 V (of this total voltage try never to go down unless it is an emergency flight).

With the new %, set the alarm percentage that best suits your flight mode.

 

[Phaedrus]

The main problem remains. Why am I getting 17 minutes of flight time on these batteries since the July update. It would be nice if they would release smart batteries and be done with it.

I may have missed it, how old were these packs when that update was applied? It may just be a coincidence that your flight times have dropped.

 

[NorWiscPilot]

The more I read the more I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place with management not understanding what all I do regardless of how many emails get sent. So how my schedule works is I'm on the road four days a week off three. My office is the back row of a Ford F-550 where everything including my gear just fits. By SOP I'm to be mission ready 24/7. There's no time to charge batteries and wait almost an hour for them to be ready when you're called to a commercial vehicle fire. I have five batteries in storage that are rotated out monthly.

The main problem remains. Why am I getting 17 minutes of flight time on these batteries since the July update. It would be nice if they would release smart batteries and be done with it.

@aniwack,

I believe what is being missed, or glossed over, is your point about the flight time drop, in perceived battery life, since the July update. If I recall correctly, there was indeed reported issues of the very same behavior as you are experiencing.

I do not recall what “fix” if any has been employed by those who encountered this phenomenon. Sorry.

I just wanted to jump in and let you know, while all this battery care information and recommendation stuff is good, it has nothing to do with the problem at hand. Hopefully some who experienced this same issue back when the July firmware came out will see this and chime in.

I do know I waited and did not update my H520 back in July. I have updated since, but not the latest. I can also report my H520 flight times have not decreased, at least not to the level you are experiencing.

Hope this helps get everyone on the right track to solving your immediate concern.

Jeff

 

[BigAl07]

My office is the back row of a Ford F-550 where everything including my gear just fits. By SOP I'm to be mission ready 24/7. There's no time to charge batteries and wait almost an hour for them to be ready when you're called to a commercial vehicle fire. I have five batteries in storage that are rotated out monthly.

I'm not getting something... do you have the ability to charge while traveling? While on scene?

For our H520 we have the factory Yuneec "single" charger and the (Can't remember the name now) Dual Charger allowing us to charge 3 packs at a time. By using an inverter in the vehicle we are able to charge on the road and on scene. If it's a big enough event we have our IMT trailer with power connects to connect and charge with instead of inverter use.

When we get the call (Fire, EM, Law, SAR you name it) we simply start charging on both chargers while traveling. Even if I am only traveling 20 minutes by the time I get on the road, travel to the scene, get briefed on what they need/want, get ready to fly, fly a battery pack out I now have 3 more fresh packs ready to fly. In about 45 minutes I've gone from having only a single pack ready to fly to have flown a pack and have 3 more ready to go.

It would be nice if they would release smart batteries and be done with it.

SMART Batteries only eliminate the discharge portion of the equation. I do the same process for our Smart (DJI) packs except I can let them AUTODISCHARGE to the 50% storage level. We still keep one "flight" ready and charge the rest en route and on scene.

 

[arruntus]

The problem @NorWiscPilot is commenting on is precisely what I've been commenting on so much by the way. The so much by certain change and landing to the same so much percent still remained time of flight. The best thing is to check the amount of energy remaining in the battery with a polymeter.

 

[BigAl07]

The problem @NorWiscPilot is commenting on is precisely what I've been commenting on so much by the way. The so much by certain change and landing to the same so much percent still remained time of flight. The best thing is to check the amount of energy remaining in the battery with a polymeter.

Is there a list/chart/graph that tells us what voltage levels to take note? What's critical, what's "think about RTH" etc. . . .

 

[arruntus]

Is there a list/chart/graph that tells us what voltage levels to take note? What's critical, what's "think about RTH" etc. . . .

No, you have to act like any other drone. We have two alerts of which one we can program the remaining battery % to warn us, then another automatically when the % reaches a certain value, right now the voltage I do not remember but I think it is 14% (I do not remember exactly, I always look at the voltage and not the %).

If you look at the voltage as I do, what I've always done, to take into account what I've put, it's recommended to land at 13.2V maximum (each cell at 3.3V). In this way we will be in acceptable margins extending to the maximum what we can consume without damaging the battery. If the cell falls below 3V almost certainly have damaged the battery. I don't think the flight controller will allow it because it will make an emergency landing in the position it is in (but I don't remember exactly how much voltage it does).

P.D: @terrence davidson I seem to remember that you did the tests when It changed, you remember how much was the % that landed automatically?